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quoted from K:

"Allah! [none has the right to be worshipped but He], the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtakes Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them [His creatures] in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter. And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His thrown extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, above everything, the Most Great. (The holy Quran 2:225)"

I don't know what Quran you are quoting from...lol so many different kinds....(sarcasim - free of charge)

BUT when I went to look it up in the version opf the Quran I have this is what I found:

"225. Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing. "
link = http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm

I also found several verses after reading just te first 6 books of the Quran that are radically different that the Bible.

Here's what I found:
1. 4:157-158 : 157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

Now although this verse says that Allah raised Christ, it also says Jesus didn't die????I'm confused.....denying the crucifixion is anti-Christian and denying Christ's death on the cross is against the Bible

2. 4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

4:172. Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah.: those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).

This is also very confusing but to say that Jesus is not the Son of God is denying Christ's diety as God incarnate. This is against Christianity.

3. 5:14. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

So there is enmity and hatered towards Christians preached from the Quran???? So muslims are called by their god to HATE Christians???? .....I'll let this one stand alone....

4. 5:51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Muslims are told by their god not to even associate with Christians or Jews...so what are you doing here?????

5. 5:64. The Jews say: "(Allah)'s hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

So "allah" doesn't like the Jews??? We ALL know that enmity of the Jewish people is against God's decree that they are His Chosen People....funny how this "allah" that you claim is the "same" as God Almighty is so against the Jews and Christians....doesn't sound like the same to me......

Personally, I think your confused and full of it...you can't seriously believe that I wouldn't have a working knowledge of your religion and therefore be intimidated into agreeing with you blasphemy here in my own forum....As far as I'm concerned you need to reread your OWN "holy" scriptures and compare them yourself.....in the meantime don't come back in here spouting off about the similarities of the Bible and the Quran.....

all the verses pulled from the Quran can be found here:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM

beautiful story Michelle..thanks for sharing it....

Firstly there is only one Quran
The verse you looked up was wrong.
try again CHapter 2 verse 255....

secondly yes the Quran states that Jesus is not a diety. Infact the bible states this too. Jesus never claimed to be anything more than a prophet but people after him made this claim such as paul.
Jesus was nothing more than a man and nothing less. HOwever he was one of the best prophets of God.

As for you story, why did God not incarnate himself for every nation so that they may be lead properly? Why just the jews in the time of jesus?
Why did God send prophets before Jesus since He knew that he could not lead them unless He incarnated Himself?
This is a pagan notion. Read up on the gnostic and nicolation ways of life. Infact just reading up on any ancient roman and greek belief will explain this to you.

Furthermore why not look into biblical history a little further. Every prophet came to his people with the same message from God because the people had curropted themselves from the orignal wishes of God.

Ive showed many times from your own bible that a prophet from Arabia is prophecised and that Jesus himself prophecised him also.
Why will you not consider Muhammad as a messenger of God also? I am not trying to be demeaning. I just think we should all be open minded in this issue.
I wouldnt be here if I hadn't done my research and come to this conclusion!

And thirdly you are wrong. YOu are quoting lines from the Quran which are out of context.
Whenever the Quran mentions enmity towards a christian and jew it is meant for the Christians and Jews who are fighting against Gods religion or harming the innocent people.

You obviously have no working knowledge of the Quran. The only thing you have are a few excerpts from a few hate websites that think they can persuade the masses by miss quoting and distorting the message from the Quran.

While you mentioned a few points in which you believe were harsh against Christians and Jews why didnt you mention the verses that praise Christians and jews and the verses that hold them in high rank. The Quran does not paint a picture of hate towards Christians. Believe me its not how your president describes it!

"He has ordained for men the faith, He has revealed to you and formerly enjoined on Noah and Abraham, on Moses and Jesus, saying, Observe this faith and be not disunited in it." 42:13

"And We did not send you (O Muhammad) except as a mercy to all of mankind" 21:107

"O Mary, Allah has chosen you. He has made you pure and exalted you above all women.... O Mary, Allah bids you in a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the next and shall be favored by Allah. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood and shall lead a righteous life." 3:42-45

look how highly it regards Mary and Jesus!!!

God does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. God loves the equitable.
God enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors. 60:8-9

Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous. 7:159

The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked. 5:47

They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite God's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate. 3:113-114

You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant. 5:82

My friends in Islam Christians are regarded as "Ahle Kitab", meaning People of the book!

Hatred is for the Christians and Jews who are ordering for humans to be killed.
These are the wrongdoers. we live side by side with the people of all religions.
You only have to look into Muslim history to see how justly we have ruled and how our people have co-inhabitted as we are still doing today.

Kibrilis - I never meant to imply by my story that Jesus Christ was for the salvation of only the Jews. Quite the opposite! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> He's for every man, woman, and child of every nation.

What Jenna meant is the Bible refers to the Jewish nation as God's People. They were the first believers of God, they have a special place in his heart.

I hate to use a New Testament parable on you, but most people know this one that don't know anything about religion; the progial son. Israel is God's prodigal son - they have left Him (by denying Jesus Christ) - but He will always give them "just one more chance". And even in the end times, they have a special, glorious (if dangerous) job awaiting them!

( ok I realize I just opened this up for all the people of the jewish religion to jump on me, but y'all know we've been disagreeing about this point for a loooooong time! ) <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know you never meant to imply this.
LOOL now your gonna tell me that all christians believe and accept that they will never be in Gods heart in the same way as Jews? Your accepting yourself as the teachers pet but not loved by the teacher? <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> (Sorry for the rubbish parable)

Allah (Or Eloheem) holds every human being as equal. There is a great verse in the Quran that lets you know how God will judge us all on the day of judgment. What he will use to distinguish judgement from one person to another...

Verily, the best of you with All�h is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [meaning fear of Allah or piety] Quran 49:13

Isreal has no special status. Where is the evidence to say that they will get special status and a special test?
We will be tested with the anti-christ as you call him. (The Dejjal in arabic)

As for the verse YOU quoted in the first place...you wouldn't have looked so bad if you had tagged the verse correctly int he first place. Yes, the verse is the same....2:255, not 2:225 as K previously tagged and I cut and pasted from his post.

When you are referring to the Quran as the only Holy Word of God, I only have one question for you, why then was it written so many decades after the Holy Bible? My evidence of this comes from a verse in the Bible from Acts (written by Luke and commenting on a missionary journey of Barnabas).

"Act 11:25 Then Barnabas went on to Tarsus to look for Saul.
Act 11:26 He found him and brought him back to Antioch. They were there a whole year, meeting with the church and teaching a lot of people. It was in Antioch that the disciples were for the first time called Christians."

The date of this book was written was between A.D. 63 and 70. AFTER Jesus' death on the cross. So if the followers of Christ were FIRST called Christians by 70 AD, then that means the Quran was written well after that, making it a COPY of the Bible in many respects and written as to confuse people and strip Jesus of His diety. Not to mention enmity and hatred between Muslims and Jews and Christians, to use the same terms written in your "holy" book.

"John 8:19 Then they said to Him, Where is your father? Jesus said to them, You neither know Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."

Jesus is speaking to the jewish religious leaders of His day. Jesus says EXACTLY who He is!... You choose to argue against Jesus and so you show your true colors as a Muslim..hostile towards Christians...it's in your nature to hate us after all Mohammed WAS a prophet to your people AFTER the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the one true Messiah. And your people misunderstood his message (Mohammed"s) and choose to worship him instead of the Christ or the Father. Thats the nature of Satan, he loves to take the message of Christ and skew it, to make it unbelieveable or confusing. This is his way. Read Genesis...when God tells Adam not to eat from the Tree of Good and Evil, God says that Adam and Eve can eat from any other tree but that one. Satan then askes Eve (not Adam, who was standing right there) whether God said they couldn't eat from ANY of the trees...Eve answers that they could eat from any tree except that one or they would die. Satan defies God by saying "You will surely NOT die." Satan thinks he knows more than God....that was why he was cast out of heaven in disgrace and he vowed to take as many of us with him till the end of his time...

you'll never change my mind, you'll never prove your case, not here, not with me, you may lead others astray with your clever words and phony education, but not me. I know the truth and the truth has set me free. I am able to discern the Word of God in the midst of the twisted lies of the devil....

Not all Islamic people are evil either...not all Christians are mean spritied or arrogant....no the world is a very diverse place...and you are not so far from the truth, your just reading the wrong book....IMMHO (in my most humble opinion)

I will try to read your book with an open mind if you will try to read mine without casting prideful judgement upon it...then maybe after a time we could come together again for a meeting of the minds... my guess is you would move closer to my side in agreeing that much that was written in the Quran is miming the Word written in the Bible. And since the Bible came first, you would then have to concede that the Bible is the true Word of God and indisputable. But I don't think any of this will happen unless you really want it too...

"Rev 21:6 And He said to me, It is done. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the Water of Life freely."

Surah 112:1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;4. And there is none like unto Him.

The verse must have been a typo on my behalf sorry about that.

I can see your making a lot of judgments about Islam without much knowledge of it.
Yes the bible came first, but the scripture given to Jesus came after the scripture to Solomon, David, Moses and Abraham (Peace be upon them all).
So is it right to say whats in the new testament should be disregarded because the old testament came first?
The Quran is the last testament of God.

"Sing unto the Lord a NEW song... Isaiah 42:10
"Let the Wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, and the villages that Kedar doth inhabit..." Isaiah 42:11

God is telling you about a new scripture in a new language from Kedar. Kedar was the second son of Ishmail and the people of Arabia in that time were often refered to as the people of kedar.

"Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,My Elect One in whom My soul delights!I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles." Isaiah 42:1

This above verse cannot be Jesus.
"But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Mathew 15:24

And Jesus makes this obvious again in Mathew 10:5-6.

Allah had Sent Jesus as a prophet to his people only. The Jews. Not to the gentiles. As you can see he had another prophet in mind for this. His name was Muhammad from the land of Kedar.

In the following verse Jesus tells us that it is not himself who will be preaching to the gentiles because he was not even succesful with his own people. But he tells us about another prophet which he will send.

"...the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me" John 16:7-9

The word Helper here is translated from the word Paracletos meaning "The praised" in Greek. This word Paracletos is directly translated into the arabic root word Hamed. the word Mu-hammad means "praised much".

Also the above verses of john and Isaiah talk very similarly of a prophet who will reprove the world of sin.

It would be good if you read the holy Quran with an open heart. Believe me I have considered Christianity with an open heart and sometimes I still sit and do the same thing. The reason I never come to the conclusion of it being devine is because it has been changed so many times. The verses conflict so much and it is filled with error. As a muslim I am commanded by Allah in the holy Quran to read. The prophet Muhammad has ordered every Muslim to seek knowledge, therefor it is required of me to seek the knowledge of every holy book and consider it with an open mind. So I have done this and when ever I am posed with a question I must answer only of what I know. It is not of the religion of truth to speak falsehood. That is why I will never answer a question I do not know the answer to incase by accident I say something wrong about God which I have no right to do so.
But how can a Christian do this when the version of the bible they are reading from is considerably different from the bible of another fellow christian?

It is not a question of me being misguided because I am ever open to suggestion and truth.
The problem is that your book points the truth and you turn away from it.

As for us worshipping Muhammad... you are mistaken. All our worship is for god only. we cannot see God so we do not make images of him as you are also adviced not to do in the bible yet we have images of Christ who is supposedly your Lord.

Muslims do not worship Muhammad. We only worhsip Allah (god).
We follow the teachings of Muhammad, which we believe is the same teachings of all the prophets of God from Noah to Moses to Jesus.
We believe in 1 god and 1 God only. We do not given the characteristics of human beings because as you mentioned in an earlier post we cannot comprehend his power and being so we dont try to. We dont make images of him but we recognise him thorugh his characteristics such as Al-Rahman (The most gracious), Al-Qudus (The holy) Al-Salam (The giver of peace and security) etc...

read the Quran and like you said one day we will come together again God willing and have this discusion.
You will see there is no confusion in the Quran. Even though it does not contain what you want to hear, it is clear in its message. you may not agree with it but you will not be able to discredit it in any form. you will not find errors and contradictions.

Yes it contains stories from the bible because Allah is reminding us of past nations and the stories of old which He wants us to take example from.
Which book would you rather believe the one full of error or the one free from it? Logic!

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you all and may Allah guide us in truth. Me and yourselves in order that the wrong may be guided to truth. Whether its you or me!

I think I would rather follow the one Book divinely inspried by God the Father.

I can tell that you can never understand why. It is through faith that we are saved not by works....there is nothing I can do to earn my salvation..it is a free gift from God...grace is unmerited favor...a concept that is foreign to Muslims...I know...because there are so many rules and regulations attached to your religion. I don't follow a religion, I follow Jesus...I believe Jesus IS God. I don't believe allah is God. I don't beleive it's subjective....I can't just choose to interpret the teachings of the Lord however I want to. It seems like Islam is like that tho. The Quran is so confusing and is really redundant with no real base of belief but only a vague undercurrent as to allude to a teaching one never recieves by reading the book....as tho the reader isn't important enough to recieve the message...

I also haven't much to go on but what I see around me. I see Muslim people killing themselves and other innocent people for the sole purpose of pleasing their god....this is in direct conflict with Christian beliefs....where murder, even self-murder is a sin....I also see Muslims hating Christians and calling for death for the "infidels" which I have seen only means Christians and Jews.

I have seen beheadings and bombs and terror world wide in the name of jihad...holy war...war for allah....who can't be my God....don't write to me about the crusades....another war started by the jihadists.....do your homework...

How can there be so many different followers of the same religion...some who say "hey, it's not diffeent than Christianity, it's a continuation of it" like you say, and then those who say "Christians and Jews must die and lets kill them and ourselves in the name of allah so we can go to heaven, this is the only way" How can one religion be in direct conflict of itself and still be of God? It can't. God can't be divided against himself...

It's hard to see someone who is so close to recieving the truth..as if God himself is pricking your subconscious, pointing the way, but the blinders of lies have been so deeply ingrained that instead of admitting that you have been following the wrong road for so long, you pridefully try to incorporate the two beliefe systems into one so your intelligence won't be questioned...I can tell you that here, in Christianity, we don't care HOW you come to the truth and are saved, BUT that you ARE....

God desires that all are not lost...no not one...

Kibrilis, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond to you. I have been dealing with your last post to me with quite a heaviness of heart and discouragement.

Sometimes it seems like you pick apart the arguments on the most simple principles solely in order to debate the topic.

Of course I did not mean that God loves the Jewish nation more than any other.

It were as if you had two children, one who constantly rebelled against your advice and eventually ran away from home; and another who tried their best to do as you said, and grew up to live close to you. One day your rebellious child sees the error of his ways, comes back weeping, apologizes and says he wishes to mend his relationship. Would you not be overjoyed to have this child back in your arms? This is how God feels about the Isrealites; they are His "prodigal son" and one day will come back to Him. It does not mean He loves us any less, just that he will be thrilled to have His lost flock returned.

<img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I feel like Jenna, that you teeter on the edge of understanding, but I fear you are unwilling to take a step of faith. You keep coming back to the fact that the Bible has mistakes, but it is people that do not believe in it in the first place that go looking for these mistakes. If someone looks hard enough, they will find what they are looking for. Satan will make sure of that.

Jenna, I think I need to back out of this debate for a while. It is getting too hard to keep my emotions in check. Kibrilis, I truly pray that someone can say something that will pierce your heart, but I don't think that person is me, and I fear that if I keep going, I might do more damage than good, because I dont yet have all the answers you want. The only answers I have are hope, faith, grace and love. Those are enough for me.