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Re: The Holy Bible #144473 10/17/05 07:22 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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Hi Lady Valkrie,
I think so often people ask the same question you ask and when answered I sometimes feel that deep inside you feel the question has not been fully answered but because you seem to recieve a common answer that is repeated by so many people it is deemed correct. (I hope that made sense :-))

Personally I have no doubt that the Bible was revealed by God.
But I like to look at fact also. Im not too interested in the opinion of people who give me ideas on their own personal beliefs because everyone can give you a different answer that way and you may never get the right one.

By facts I mean what is actually written in the bible itself!
In the Preface of the Revised standard version of bible 1952 it mentions that a revision of the bible was needed because they found older manuscripts dating back to 200-300 years after the death of Christ. However the king James Version of the bible was translated using manuscripts 600-700 years after Christ (Peace be upon him).

The bible has some significant changes in this edition. Some verses are taken out because they are not found in the older and more ancient manuscripts and some verses have been added!
Did the bible reveal a different message to the people upto 1952? Than did God Divinly give us something else?
There are approximately 39 different version of the bible on the shelves for you to buy with different lengths in verses some saying completly different things.
The catholic bible has 7 more books!!!

In fact I dont think english is a good a translation as it can be. English didnt begin to exist until 1066. Although it is the most common language, it is not refined as some of hte more ancient languages such as hebrew or greek.
Who knows how much meaning has been lost over translation from the original language of Jesus which was Aramiac.

I can give you more facts but Im sure this message is long enough.
Feel free to private message me if you need to.

Re: The Holy Bible #144474 10/18/05 03:20 PM
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Paula, Wine,ItalianFood,Library Offline
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My 15 cents in the discussion.....

1. The Bible is important because it is a collection of writings that are the word of God.

2. It is inerrent in faith, morals and matters of salvation. This does not mean science or history (see the two different creation stories as an example).

3. The Bible is the inspired word of God. The Holy Spirit provided the ideas, thoughts and concepts to the authors, who then wrote it down in their own words using their own writing style.

4. At times man has corrputed the original message. An example is in Genesis. When God creates man and the animals he gives Adam a respectful responsibility over creation. In English this gets translated as "dominion." This is further transformed into "domination." Domination is not the same thing as a respectful relationship.

5. Many attempt to use Scripture as a sword to hurt rather than a message of love and relationship. A very simplistic answer that would take pages and pages to fully expound on.

6. This is much the same as #5. It's interesting to note that Martin Luther wanted to toss out some of the New Testament. He didn't like James or Revelation. He also wanted to toss out Esther from the Old Testament. The differences between Protestant and Catholic/Orthodox Bibles is an example of where divisions come from.

At the time the Christian Bible was being formed, a Greek translation of Jewish Scripture, the Septuagint, was in common use and Christians adopted it as the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. However, around 100 A.D., Jewish rabbis revised their Scripture and established an official canon of Judaism which excluded some portions of the Greek Septuagint.

Christians did not follow the revisions of Judaism and continued to use the text of the Septuagint. There are more direct quotes from the Septuagint in the New Testament than the Hebrew canon.

Catholic and Orthodox Churches continue to base their Old Testament on the Septuagint.


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Re: The Holy Bible #144475 10/23/05 07:05 PM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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In reply to the post by Paula

1. What proof have you that it is the word of god??
2. It is not clear on matters of salvation at all. Some verses tell you to stick to the commandments while others tell you if you simply believe you have a first class ticket to heaven.

***** content deleted as per offensive language by Jenna Robinson Bible Basics moderator********


Please come back with real arguements to the case!

Last edited by BiblBasixEditor; 10/23/05 11:52 PM.

"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144476 10/23/05 11:56 PM
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BiblBasixEditor Offline
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kibrisli7,

unfortunatly, I had to delete some of the language in your post. Feel free to rewrite using more acceptable language...I really hesitated because the argument you were making to Paula was an interesting one...but sense the name of the forum...(Bible Basics) and try to find a different way to make the same arguement please.... in here we adhere to the recognized authority of the Bible as God's Word. And lets not detract from that OK?


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
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Re: The Holy Bible #144477 10/24/05 06:23 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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Hmmm. I cant even remember what I wrote now since its deleted. I know the topic is bible basics and you want me to stick to that. But I was merely answering Lady Valkyrie's post on authenticity of the bible. I can understand why people question the authenticity of the bible since it has been tampered with so much.
Ok Ill try to make my point in a different way.
I hope that it is suitable for your forum.

I understand that in this forum you wish to accept the bible as the word of God.
I can tell you that in Islam we believe that the bible may have once been the word of God. god teaches us in the Quran that the Torah (Meaning the books given to Moses (peace be upon him) by God), The zabur (being the books given to David (PBUH) eg the Psalms) and the injeel (The scripture given to Jesus (PBUH)) were revelation from Allah.

Allah is merely the name in Arabic for God. However it does not mean God.
In fact if you look at the Hebrew word for god it is Eloheem. This is the pluralised form of Eloh. And in Aramiac the name for God was Allaha. IN ARABIC it is Allah. These three languages are all semetic languages and derive from one another. It is used in a plural sense in hebrew in order to associate the name of God as more majestic and prestigious in a manner that suites His Exaltedness.

In Arabic the word gramatically cannot be pluralised. Allah is one and cannot be made Allaheem.
I hope that was not confusing because I went on for a bit! lol

You see we believe (As do all Christians) that the bible has been tampered with. This is fact. Your priests admit it, your pope probably admits it and there is no grounds to defend it. Infact in History we actually know who some of the re-writers of the bible are. And these are historians that are Christian.
And once again ill quote the verse from Jeremiah 8:8

"How is it that you say, We are wise and the law of the Lord is with us? But see, the false pen of the scribes has made it false."

The Muslim belieth is also very similar to the biblical belief that Jesus (PBUH) will return. what we differ on my brothers and sisters is how he departed.
We believe he did not die on the cross. And biblically there is not much evidence to say he did die on the cross.
In the book atributed to Mathew we learn all the desciples ran away and left him.
We are told in the bible that Jesus's legs (PBUH) were not broken. In the phillipenes and some other countries ive seen also, Christian fanatics crucify themselves yearly and all live. It has become a tradition to live out the pain of Jesus (PBUH)
When Mary Magdelene came to see Jesus (PBUH), she came supposedly to anoint him. Who anoints him after 3 days??? Which tradition which culture practices this in the world?? His body would have been rock solid by than. Also when she tried to jump on him, he said stop because he was in pain still. The flesh was hurting. The Muslim belief is that he was not risen. He was alive and kicking.
When he came to see his desciples in the upper room, they were all shocked and scared. They thought they had seen a spirit (They thought he was risen), But he reasurred them saying touch my hands my hair. This is flesh and bones not spirit. Also we know that a spirit does not feel the necesity to eat. He asked them for food and they gave him honey and fish!!
Notice mary magdelen was not afraid of Jesus (PBUH) because she had not fled!

So you guys tell me where in the bible the evidence for jesus dying on the Cross is!!
If your gonna say that Paul says so im gonna have to tell you that Paul also refers to his books as his gospels and thinks of himself as a prophet. He is the source of everything in bible that contradicts the teachings of all the other prophets. He abolished the ten commandments and other directives from god such as circumcision, prohibiting pork etc.
Paul was the murderer of Christians. MASS MURDERER> When he realised he could not break the spirit of the followers of Christ he introduced his own version of Christianity. One that also appealed to the idol worshipping Romans and Greeks. Dont forget that the concept of gods mating with humans and creating halflings is very common in their mythology.
Muslims also believe that Jesus was concieved through miraculous means. But in the same sense that God created Adam (PBUH) when He said "Be" and Adam was!

I hope you dont find the need to delete this one. If you do I will gather that you are just hiding what you believe to be may be true!


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144478 10/24/05 06:25 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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Quote:
What is your opinion on the Holy Bible? Is it the true word of God? Was it truely inspired by God? Has man corrupted the original message that God was trying to convey? Why is it to this day that even within Christianity, so many are split as to the actual meaning of this Holy scripture? Why must so many differing denominations within Christianity itself squabble over its meaning?



This is all I was trying to reply to. There was nothing offensive in my answer. If you want. Why dont you delete Lady Valkrie's question?


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144479 10/26/05 07:26 PM
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Paula, Wine,ItalianFood,Library Offline
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Quote:
What is your opinion on the Holy Bible?


The original question asked for my opinion, which I gave. You then changed Lady Valkyrie's original question and demanded proof.

That's a different subject.


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Re: The Holy Bible #144480 10/27/05 09:37 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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Ok fair point.
Join me in my post than and people who wish to delve into the subject a little can join me.

The topic will be called "Bible and the basis of authenticity"


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: The Holy Bible #144481 11/02/05 07:54 AM
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Sylvia - Offline
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From my "Biblicist" point of view, I do believe that the Bible is the word of God. IMO, humankind corrupted it by adding several addenda to the original message and also by interpreting the content in different day to day applications. But then, this was to be expected...

Re: The Holy Bible #144482 11/02/05 05:20 PM
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kibrisli7 Offline
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The point is, if everyone accepts that the bible was the word of God but has been changed... how can it still be the word of God???

Im sure the buddhist and Hindu scriptures were once as divine but have also been corrupted.

IF it has been changed than it is no longer the word of God but the word of MAN.


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
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