We believe he did not die on the cross. And biblically there is not much evidence to say he did die on the cross. In the book atributed to Mathew we learn all the desciples ran away and left him. We are told in the bible that Jesus's legs (PBUH) were not broken.
Have you Read the Gospel of John???????? John was the only aposile who didn't run. He was a witness, he stood there and watched as Jesus was hammered to the cross.
K7 -- Over and Over again you say that Bible doesn't say Jesus is God. You've been proved wrong so many times but keep stating it over and over.
But just so no one is confused by your lies:
I'm going to give you the verses - you can go look them up.
Matthew 12:17-21 Matthew 21:2-5 Matthew 1:20-23 Luke 2:46-47 Mark 1:9 Luke 3:21-22 Mark 1:10-11 Matthew 4:3-4 John 5:31 Mark 1:22 John 6:67-68 Mark 1:23 Luke 4:41 Matthew 16:13-17 Luke 9:18-20 John 3:31-35 1John 5:21-22 Mark 3:11 John 6:35 John 6:47 Luke 9:35 Matthew 17:5 John 12:45 Luke 11:31-32 Luke 12:35-40 Matthew 20:23 Luke 22:14-18 Luke 22:20 Mark 14:24 John 19:30 John 14:9 Matthe 23:20 John 14:15-16 John 16:7 John 17:5 Mark 14:35-36 Matthew 27:46 Matthew 27:51 Luke 23:45 Luke 24:27 Mark 16:19 Luke 24:50-53 Matthew 28:20 Revelation 1:13-14 Revelation 5:5-6
K7 says: 4 different accounts... However your own Christian scholars will tell you that the 4 gospels were not actually written by the 4 disciples that they are attributed to. We dont actually know who has written them! But we do know it is not actually likely to be the 4 desciples Mark, Luke, Matthew and John!
This is a lie. Maybe you should get your facts straight. I'm not going into why this is a lie again and repeating myself again. For someone who has studied the Bible you sure have a lot of false information. Did you study the Bible by reading the Bible or by reading what other people wrote about the Bible?
k7 says These are the wrongdoers. we live side by side with the people of all religions. You only have to look into Muslim history to see how justly we have ruled and how our people have co-inhabitted as we are still doing today.
Are you serious???? I'm not even going to honour this with evidence, I think everyone knows the evidence against this statement.
You cant judge Muslim rule in recent times my friend. There hasnt been any.
Was it not the Muslims that ruled spain with justice? was it not the Muslims that allowed Jews and Christians to live without persectution in the ottoman empire? Under the rule of Muslims did palestine not have peaceful times? If you notice countries that the Muslims have ruled have not been forced to change language or religion. Today ther reason why most of Africa speaks either french or English is because it was imposed on them.
In reference to your early claim of authenticating the bible, firstly Id like to thank you for the websites you gave links to in another post careneedy. Very good read but not entirely accurate. I have a list of authors and scholars who are Christian that concede the fact that the bible has been altered many times.
I mean you only have to look at the preface of the 1952 revised standard version of the bible and it tells it in the bible!!!
Anyway... Im not gonna argue on these points anymore. Because no matter how much I write it is the same and the same goes for you.You see what you want to see and I see what I want to see. Lets pray that satan releases his grip on whoever of us is the arrogant. Until than we can agree to disagree as they say. Ill respect your choice of religion and God willing you'l respect mine. Id like to invite readers to join me in the Islam forum. That is where ill be posting only from now on.
Ive learned something on your religion from yourselves and shared some things that I knew about it too. maybe now you'l take the interest to learn something about mine and we can build healthy bridges.
There is a post on the authenticity of the Quran which I invite you all to.
May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you, and may Allah guide us to the straight path, like the ones who have earned his blessings, not like the ones who have angered Him or the ones who have strayed from the path of monotheism. Amen.
Ali - The servant of God <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Hey I didn't mean to chase you away, you can go on some more. It's fun having a healthy conversation.
As for political peace... history has shown us that no matter what religion there have been autrocities, lots of them. Even a religious state such as the Catholic Vatican has proved the Machiavellion saying that:
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I do want to mention that you need to be vary wary of which scholars you are reading. The Jesus Seminar claims to be Christian but they have anti-Christian views. As well, when in a head on debate with other Christian Scholars, like Dr. Gregory Boyd, they come out all beat up. They do not speak for the intellectual Christian community and their findings are flawed.
Shannon, what a tremendous amount of work you did! WOW!
Thank you for taking such time to look up everything -I'm still in the middle of going through the questions Kibrilis brought up, LOL!
But I must say this has been really good for me, because it has had me really digging in and studying in the Bible, instead of just reading over a few verses each day. So for that I have to thank Kibrilis as well. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Not to take k7 side against my own religion but, if you read a book on a religion and the are of that faith wont they build up thier own faith and undermine others?
I have read chirstian books on wicca and other religians and they all seem to me in my oppion to add or subtract believes and not tell the whole story. but give plent of info about how evil there faith is and how we as chirstians should convert or stay away for them.
I would love to get my hands on a book about any religon that was wrote by a athist who studyed that relgion. i think if the person who reseached and studyed the religion and had no religion themselfes would have a clear cut fact based oppion!!!
its ez for me to look at chirstianty and say "this is the ABSULUTE TRUTH" because that is what i personaly believe and its hard for me to look at other religions and concerter that believe to be valid!
I do think that Every Religion has valid points and truth!!! but here again what i pick up as being valid and truth from another religion is STILL based in Chirstianity!!!
But how many athist out there study religon in and out to find what they believe and why? and the ones that do would they not be more likely to discreadit the religion just to prove there is no God?
Just some thing to think about!!!
Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial