BellaOnline Forums Family Christian Living I'd like your opinion

Hello, i am a pagan, a witch if you please, do you have anything you'd like to ask me or tlak to me about? :rolling:

Hmmm, What do you like about the Pagan belief?

hmmm, interesting starter... pardon me ladies as I chime in here.

I feel like there is less "us and them" to pagan beliefs. Not that there aren't pagans who rail against "the mundane" or other religions. Intolerance still swings both ways.

No pagan has ever woken me up early on a Saturday AM ringing my bell and handing me pamphlets, nor do they acost me while I am walking down the street, trying to get me to take a pre-annotated copy of a their religious doctrine while telling me my life just has to be a ruin because I am not like them.

I like how in Wicca my actions are MY actions, not chosen by someone else or according to their will or some unknown plan. The Law of Threes, which stipulates that whatever energy I put out will come back to me threefold, is something to give you pause, whether you are about to yell, or feel like striking out physically, or if you are just angry at nothing.

I chose paganism as an adult in my early thirties. My beliefs have not isolated me from any of my friends or family who practice other religions. I find I can still share holidays and such, and doing the little bit to educate people as to how I am celebrating something a bit different is usually a great sharing exchange and not an ideological conflict.

- Rae

besides a bunch of the holidays we celebrate now started out as being a pagan holiday. (hehe at my neighbor, a lady who is a "devout" christian who would never "soil" herself with anything that was not a christian holiday, as she celebrated halloween)Sorry I just had to add that in lol!

I'm glad you chimed in as Lady Moon hasn't returned since she asked the question.

I studied some alternative beliefs as an adult and then became a Christian believer about 10 years ago. I had very little religious training as a child so becoming a Christ follower was a wholehearted choice.

The people who wake you up to give you pamphlets, etc are among the minority even though they seem to be everywhere. I won't go into their beliefs. There are many variations of Christian belief and some that are not true biblical Chistian in their belief.

I'm sorry you seem to have been 'bullied' by someone's good intentions.
My belief comes from studying the Bible and striving to live as Jesus taught.
God created us all. It isn't my job to change anyone's belief although I do feel that I should share the joy I have and the light I have been given. (Not by force <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )
I deal with my own shortcomings everyday. I certainly don't feel compelled to set anyone else straight about theirs!
We are all in this life together. I believe Christians should be known by the love they show.

Lynne,

My second roommate my freshman year at college was Japanese American and practiced Christianity. She told fantastic stories of how her family was part Buddhist and part Christian and holiday celebrations at their house were a row of Buddhist uncles down one side of the table arguing with Christian aunties lined up down the other. We had some great discussions about faith and beliefs, especially after she was kicked out of the intervaristy christian fellowship group on campus for not praying exactly like they did, or some other vapid nonsense.

Growing up, I had a circle of friends, there were about six of us in three pairs of "bests." I was Jewish (i chose to be pagan as an adult), my best friend was Methodist, one girl was Baptist, another was Catholic, one said her mom said they were agnostics and one girl was Christian and went one town over to church. We had what we called a "Hannumas" party ever year and would have one big gift exchange at someone's house. Our mom's all thought it was great. We had to explain all the differences to each other, but nothing seemed to conflict. It was nice.

- Rae

You know, I remember back when I was in college.. I had joined a group called students for social responsibility and awareness (yes it was quite a mouthful!) It was a creat group! We had a hari krishna, a budhist, two wiccans, a jew, and then me, the unkown lol! One thing that really struck me as odd was that while our group was very open to everyone, the christian student group would put out flyers saying the devil is among us, and then point at US when they would talk about it. Seems they thought we were all living horrible drug infested lives (little did they know we were all DEATH on drugs! yuck!) Eventually the dean threatened to disban the christianity group if they didn't stop targeting hatful comments at other groups. So, I think that there are some really icky people in the christian religion who make sure they stand out, and sadly that gives the entire christian religion a BAD name. Ah well. Happiness to all is my motto <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You're right. There are many individuals that can give their groups a bad name. I knew two people who practiced witchcraft that were kind of icky. In fact, the man tried to murder his wife! I have met Christians that possibly delayed my conversion by their attitude.

The thing is, we will all die someday and our choices now will effect what happens to us after we die. I believe that we all live eternally -- it is just where and how that is in question.

Personally, I don't believe in a literal eternal fiery hell. Here's a fascinating site by a theologian that examines the error of the "literal, eternal hell" doctrine. http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/ and http://www.tentmaker.org/ are excellent sites. I have other sites out the wazoo if anyone is interested. (They are from a "Kingdom Theology" Christian slant. But I think they have some great articles and information on what the original language of the Bible really says as opposed to what's been taught traditionally...and largely unexamined by both laypeople and ministers alike.)

I grew up as a Pentecostal Christian, and went on to Bible College to study to be a minister. I'm still ordained and used to co-pastor a Charismatic church, actually. While Christianity is still my proverbial home base, my beliefs are pretty different than most fundamentalist/traditionalist. I believe all are children of God, and all paths eventually lead back to Source.

Rae The Law of Three sounds like the Biblical "sowing and reaping". Good stuff.

Anyone know the difference between paganism and wicca? I have a pagan friend but we tend to disuss New Age type stuff, not pagansim.

Namaste

The Pagan Pride Project has a great definition of paganism:

A Pagan or NeoPagan is someone who self-identifies as a Pagan, and whose spiritual or religious practice or belief fits into one or more of the following categories:

* Honoring, revering, or worshipping a Deity or Deities found in pre-Christian, classical, aboriginal, or tribal mythology; and/or
* Practicing religion or spirituality based upon shamanism, shamanic, or magickal practices; and/or
* Creating new religion based on past Pagan religions and/or futuristic views of society, community, and/or ecology; and/or
* Focusing religious or spiritual attention primarily on the Divine Feminine.

According to the above definitions, Wicca would be a form of paganism. I identify as pagan as opposed to Wiccan as I don't specifically follow a Wiccan tradition.

- Rae

Fascinating, Rae! Since I'm currently exploring the Divine Feminine right now (El Shaddai in the OT actually means "many breasted one" in the Hebrew), looks like I may be on a Pagan path. Hehehe.

Wow, there's a lot going on here. Well, this is what I have to say, I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected.

On another note, I had friends in high school (I'm not very old) that were "witches" or so they thought, or whatever, but still we were FRIENDS, I guess we're all entitled to our beliefs.

Since EL refers to a god in the most general sense, it seems that El Shaddai would refer to God as the source of blessing - not specificly in the feminine sense.

Whether Hell refers to eternal firey hell or not, although Scripture seems pretty definate, life without God would be eternal hell for me!

Welcome Jesilee
Thank you for joining in. You made a very important statement of faith.

Hello again, Lynne

Scripture is only as definite as the original language is considered. The pages I linked to talks about the original language of Scripture, which is what the Bible was originally written in. Still, the "spirit" of the words is much more important than the literal translation, especially since "the letter kills, but the spirit gives life."

�El Shaddai� is feminine in gender and means "the many-breasted One" and = Mother. Jahweh (or Jehovah) is masculine in gender and = Father. Unlike English, Hebrew words are either feminine or masculine in gender.

The question is why the "Mother" part of God has been removed from most translations of the Bible, setting up a patriarchy and making way for the exclusion and persecution of women. Which, incidentally, Christ attempted to overthrow by his very life and manner of being.

I agree, a disconnect from the Divine within and without is certainly hell. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It seems to me that trying to separate God into male/female is a good diversion tactic to turn people away from the true meaning of His words and send them off on the wrong path.

I don't believe that all paths lead to the Source. I believe that they lead to the source of that path.

Why not use "it" to refer to God? I never knew anyone has clearly identified any masculine or femenine attributes of God, don't want to sound rude.

In Scripture, and in my experience, God is very personal, with character traits that definately don't fit using 'it' <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, if you guide yourself by what others have written, then ofcourse you must have a reason to call him "he" or maybe "she" (doubtfull).

I used to be in a belief where we thought of God as 'it' :beamedup: As I look back on it, it was a dead belief. It depended more on me than on God. I had no personal relationship with God and though I didn't know it at the time, I was going nowhere with my life. (Except maybe "to hell in a hand-basket" as my grandmother used to say. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

I had happiness at times but never joy. Now I have joy and a lot more happiness.

PS. The Bible is the best guide for life that I know of.
There is more evidence that the Bible is a reliable source than there is for any other book from the ancient world. There have been thousands of archaeological finds in the Middle East that support it. Non that contradict it.

It is inspired by God.
It was written by at least 40 authors, over 1600 years, spanning 3 continents, yet one theme runs from Genesis through Revelation.

There have been 2 centuries of scientific prying and it has survived.

It was completed in less than 100 years after Jesus' death (70 yrs I think) and still has a 99.5% accuracy rating to the original manuscipts.

Hi everyone!
It's me...Jenna, The Christianity Host here at Bella...

I have had lots of experience in dealing with the controversy surrounding "Paganism" vs "Christianity." In my humble opinion there is no argument. The Bible states very clearly that there will be scoffers and those who stray from the path of righteousness. It also states that the only way to heaven is through the man Jesus Christ. In the Jewish religion much has been written and studied concerning the coming Messiah. These prophecies have been fullfilled in the person of Jesus of Nazereth.

To me, a Wiccan stating that she used to be a Jew, then studied Christianity and the various denominations there in, then deciding to become a witch is ridiculous. Seems to me that if you've done that much searching, then you've obviously missed alot of the teaching of many of these beliefs. Either you weren't a devout Jew who studied and meditated on the word of the Torah or you simply looked at the fruit of a so called Christian's life and decided that God wasn't worth it. I'm telling you sister, when I need comfort I look to the God that is big enough to take away the pain. When I experience joy and love in my life I thank the God who is big enough to create these emotions and create the people and things that give it to me. When I need redmption and salvation for my very soul I run to the wide open arms of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who was big enough and strong enough to die for me and I thank the Father who is powerful enough to raise my Saviour from the dead so I can stand boldly before Him at the judgement without blemish. I would not want to go into eternity without Jesus. Not if it meant that I would lose my very soul.

What I'm saying is that if someone claims to have studied Christianity and or the life of Jesus Christ and decided against Him, I would have to question the extent of their education on the matter, not to mention the validity of their testimony.

Also, just as a side note, Paganism is ultimatly the worship of demons. The goddess is simply a hag that demands worship and ritual and gives nothing in return to her followers. The study of the old Roman Empire is evidence of this. There stood one of the most powerful empires based on demon worship history has ever seen...so where is it now? It was destroyed during the Crusades and has never been again. Where are the riches and the fullfillment in worshiping these false gods and goddesses? I have yet to see any evidence of anyone finding true joy and everlasting peace through worshipping the goddess....it's because there is none. Everything in this world is temporary. It will all pass away in the end. And the god of this world makes sure that you have nothing when you reach the end of your life.

Does this mean that I think I'm better than anyone who does practice Wiccan? No. It means that I simply want that none shall perish and that everyone comes to know my Saviour. I have a full life and am bold with my beliefs. I may step on your toes a bit but I won't back down...I want to only spread the good news... that there is a way back to God. Through Jesus. Don't be left behind. Respect does not mean Tolerance.

Turn away and move again towards the saving grace of Jesus.

Actually Rome is still around. Yes the empire fell, but that was mainly due to [censored] politics, and bad warleadership (if that's even a word lol!). The religions of the grecians, romans, hindus, buhddists, egyptians, tibetans, etc etc etc are still alive and kicking. There are entire cultures that have a different type of worship than christianity and many many people in those religions who are happy with what they are.

I have a friend who moved away and joined a hari krishna temple. He is extremely happy with his life choice. And I remember talking to some of the buhddist monks, who are in search of enlightenment. In my experience, these monks have an incredible purity to them. There is a strong search for inner peace. I have also met really awful christian priests who have no morals, spirituality, or anything.

On the other hand, I have met some priests who were truely remarkable in their faith.


I once read a great comment.... there is a military man who retired to a small town. He gave thousands of dollars to different charities annonymously, and constantly helped the community (all without anyone knowing that he was doing it). One day a woman was attacked outside his home. He reacted like the soldier he was and killed the man. Later it became known that the man he killed was actually an enemy of his at one time. Will the people talk about the good he did? Or will they only react to the one moment of violence, and call him vengeful?

We are all walking through this world blindly to a certain extent. I say, let each make the decision for themselves. Languages change... what if in the end it turns out that we are all worshipping different sides of the same being (call it god or whatever) and like with the military man, we believe in what we see. I'm sure the recipients of his kindness would think differently of him, than those who only saw the anger.

Just my two cents <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jessica,
Your two cents mean alot to me!!! However I am not walking through this world blind. I have the truth.
We are all walking through this world blindly to a certain extent. I say, let each make the decision for themselves. Languages change... what if in the end it turns out that we are all worshipping different sides of the same being (call it god or whatever) and like with the military man, we believe in what we see.

If we are worshipping different sides of the same God and one side claims to have His true Word...why would anyone discredit it?

Well I've discovered that religion is a very touchy subject. Everyone wants to believe that their way is the right way. Many religions have been polluted by the opinions of a few in high positions. Every religious leader puts his (or her) own mark on the religion. Over time that makes them into "separate" churches. Look at all the different versions of christianity that are out there. They all believe in christ... yet they consider the others to be deluded. It's a facet of humanity. Every religion can be discredited if you look hard enough. Saying this one or that one is wrong because of one little thing. That is why there are so many different religions, we all have free will so look for the interpretation of God that best suits us. In the end it is all a belief in a higher power (with the exceptions of the religions that practice ancestor worship... but even that has similarities to the other religons)

Not all denominations of the Christian church consider the others deluded. Many different Christ centered churches feel that we are all on the same team.
Different forms of worship don't change the base belief that Jesus Christ died for our sin and was resurrected and by doing so, gave believers His righteousness leading to eternal life with God.

True Lynne, I am trying to speak in generalities.. but I keep phrasing my thoughts in absolutes lol! Well, I am speaking in the broadest sense of the words, of course there are exceptions to everything. But really it gives you something to think about... what if all of the religions were right, to a point? What if in the end, everyone's interpretation of God ended up being correct in some form?

In the end, I think it is important to be true to your beliefs. If you choose to live the life of a catholic priest for example) then don't practice immoral things. If you firmly believe in the mormon church, then you should live every day by your beliefs, and always practice what you preach. If you are wiccan, then you should believe in the law of three... and not go running aorund "cursing" (as one lady put it) all of the people who irritate you. etc etc etc.

Although, I don't believe that all beliefs lead to God, I do believe that all (or most) are right to a point.
This is because the law concerning right and wrong is one law. It has been here from the beginning and everyone has the ability to know that law and the Source of it until their hearts and minds are hardened to the point where they can't see it anymore.(They never feel conscience or guilt anymore)
I think there is a point where God will not speak to them anymore.

Hi, I liked what NewAgeBella said,"&#8216;El Shaddai&#8217; is feminine in gender and means "the many-breasted One" and = Mother. Jahweh (or Jehovah) is masculine in gender and = Father. Unlike English, Hebrew words are either feminine or masculine in gender. "

I think it's neat that we all are on different paths and I believe that ultimately they will lead to the same souce.

So many people are shying away from traditional religion and finding their own spiritual path. It may be a combination of ideas from different religions or their own brand that fit's their need.

In my case, I study Christian Science. I know there are some religions that feel they have an exclusive on the truth. But, I've been appreciating in my study of the Bible and "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures" (the book that explains Christian Science), that we are all the children of God. That we all have one Father-Mother God. Eddy writes, "Father-Mother is the name for Deity, which indicates His tender relationship to His spiritual creation."

I connect deeply with thinking about God as Love. Loving us all.

Hi Valdeem,
You are so right. God is love and so much more. And God does love us all. God created people and loves people.
That sounds good and is what I used to believe. However, it sounds like shopping for clothes. Does it fit? Is it confortable? If it doesn't fit next year, shall I throw it away?
God is so much BIGGER than that and deserves so much more.

Hi Lynne,

"That sounds good and is what I used to believe. However, it sounds like shopping for clothes. Does it fit? Is it confortable? If it doesn't fit next year, shall I throw it away?
God is so much BIGGER than that and deserves so much more."

I'm nodding my head. I agree with you. It may sound like it's a bit like shopping for clothes and somewhat dispensable to some who have found their spiritual anchor. But, I think for those who are still searching for a spiritual "home" it's far better than belonging to a religion or faith simply because one grew up in it or their family has always done it. I think spirituality should feed the heart's famished affections and be a choice. That's why it's neat if someone is doing an honest search&#8230; God meets us where we are and leads us in just the right path. Sometimes it may seem like a circuitous path but it's the one that was needed for our spiritual development.

It's sounds like you've given this topic a lot of thought. I'd love to hear more about your jouney.

Valdeen,
It sounds like you are a serious searcher and I'm sure you on your way to finding the right place.

It may not be the belief you grew up in.. or it may. Sometimes, that belief just wasn't shown clearly. Sometimes those who have been in a faith for many years have lost the fire in their spirit. It is sad because when that happens, they can't teach their children spiritual truth.

I think it's more of a point where a person refuses to hear him. But I don't believe there is a point where he stops speaking to us.

I'm thinking of the Bible passage - Romans 1:18-32

If someone wants to know God, He will keep working with them until they understand.

Hi Lynne,

"Sometimes those who have been in a faith for many years have lost the fire in their spirit. It is sad because when that happens, they can't teach their children spiritual truth."

It is sad when that happens. But, I feel we need to trust that, like you said before, God is bigger than us and even we can't interfere with His/Her plan for us. He guides every event of our lives.

I guess I speak for myself here, but I know I go through times when my trust and faith are tested. It's seems like a winter of inspiration when not much is happening. But, all the while growth was going on--I just couldn't see it. Then looking back the hard times were really teaching me some needed lessons to help me move forward.

Like Jesilee said it might seem like we can't hear Him but He's talking to us all the time. When we're able to silence all the negative thoughts, then we hear Him. At least, that's what I've experienced. Although, I must admit, it's sometimes it's not so easy to do that.

There is a poem I like by Abraham Rutgers called "Gratitude." Here's part of it...

...God is Mind and holy thought is sending;
Man, His image, hears His voice.
Every heart may understand His message,
In His kindness may rejoice.
Lo, He speaks, all condemnation ending,
Every true desire with Love's will blending;
Losing self, in Him we find
Joy, health, hope, for all mankind.

During the times when it seems like I'm not hearing God's voice, I remind myself of this poem.