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Joined: Apr 2002
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Tiger
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Tiger
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Quote:
Originally posted by raytan:
[qb] Jaga - we know the lengths to which the repulicans went to in order to steal the election in 2000. only an idiot would trust them after that....

[/qb]
I accidentally watched this program. Yes, I am more and more concerned that the electionw as fraud. The official mass-media do not want to talk about it except Keith Oberman.
The results are really striking:
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

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Chipmunk
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With the re-election of President Bush, America recommitted itself once again to expanding freedom and promoting liberty.

THAT is what the majority of Americans wanted! The price of freedom is costly and does not make the President wealthy. It costs ALL of us, including Pres.Bush and his family.

Can't we move onto something more positive?
In God we trust and with His help, our country will heal, if WE let it! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Trish

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Chipmunk
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Amen Trish and you are not one of those East Coast Airheads. I live on the East Coast too (Virginia). The people who voted for the suit are still in denial. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Robert F. Stachurski
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>Amen Trish and you are not one of those East Coast Airheads. I live on the East Coast too (Virginia). The people who voted for the suit are still in denial.<

Same here in Teaneck, NJ

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Tiger
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Tiger
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Guys,

I do not want to believe in a possible fraud. Maybe there was none, some of these counties seems to vote republican before.

At least this suggest that the half og the public opinion do not trust the government. Not a nice sign. I really hope that pres. Bush would try to talk with majority of Americans, not only with these democrats which support his view but maybe he would try to compromise, to listen to more people than just his own crowd.

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Despite some information leaks during WW2, many American Jews refused to believe that FDR, Churchill & Stalin would allow Hitler to commit mass murder of Jews & non-Jews in East Europe. They should have joined with their non-Jewish brethren in USA to resist this cave-in to tyranny & mass murder. Author Howard Fast whom I met in NYC in 1950 admitted this. RIP Howard.

Today Americans should unite & end polarization to fight Islamifascism. Carl:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4624752-103684,00.html

Obituary

Howard Fast
Prolific radical novelist who championed the cause of America's common people
Eric Homberger
Friday March 14, 2003

The Guardian
The writer Howard Fast, who has died aged 88, was the last surviving American
recipient of the Stalin peace prize. His first novel appeared at the height of
the depression, and he was still publishing bestsellers in the 1980s.
Fast was a literary phenomenon of a recognisable American kind. Untouched by the
ugly racism of Jack London, and certainly more skilled at the delineation of
character and the crafting of a readable plot than Upton Sinclair, he was the
champion of the progressive novel in the United States.
For a decade after the second world war, he moved in the upper strata of inter-
national anti-fascism and communist propaganda. His historical novels, which
ranged from portraits of slave revolts in antiquity, as with Spartacus (1953),
to the American revolution, won him a broad readership across the world. In the
Soviet Union, his print runs were substantial.
Having refused to cooperate with the House un-American activities committee and
provide records of the joint anti-fascist refugee committee, he was convicted of
contempt of Congress in 1950, and served three months in jail - it was in effect
a congressional imprimatur of his leftwing credentials and integrity. It also
meant that, overnight, his books became unpublishable. He was blacklisted. Angus
Cameron (obituary, November 30 2002), the editor-in-chief at his publishers,
Little Brown, came under fire in 1951 for publishing avowed or secret communist
authors, and was forced to resign.
Fast was driven to publishing his own books - including the bestselling
Spartacus - until he broke with the American Communist party, which he had
joined in 1943. Despite his misgivings about the party, he regarded the rising
tide of McCarthyism as a more immediate threat to American liberties. He ran for
Congress on the American Labour party ticket in 1952, after it had come under
the CP's covert control. He wrote a eulogy of the anar chists Sacco and
Vanzetti, who had been executed during the 1920s red scare. The party had played
a key role in the worldwide campaign against the American legal system.
For this and other services, Fast was awarded the Stalin peace prize in 1954. He
was the one truly popular American writer to remain loyal to the Communist party
until 1956, when Khrushchev's so-called "secret speech" on Stalin's crimes, and
the Red army's crushing of the Hungarian revolution, led three-quarters of the
membership of the American Communist party to quit.
In the ideological ruins that followed, Fast remade himself as the author of
slick, efficient thrillers, written under the pseudonym of EV Cunningham,
featuring a Japanese-American detective. He was also the author of firmly
researched novels about the Lavette family, turn-of-the-century immigrants to
San Francisco. Beginning with The Immigrants (1977), he published seven novels
over the next decade, continuing the family story over several generations to
the struggles of Vietnam and feminism.
They successfully combined progressive mythology - the struggle of the
individual against the establishment - and skilled social and political
reportage. As in Upton Sinclair's Lanny Budd novels, Fast could never resist the
temptation to have his fictional characters on hand when history-making events
took place; he had been doing it, with considerable skill, from his earliest
novels about the American revolution.
Fast wrote largely without the benefit of an academic education. His father
worked in the New York garment industry. Following the death of his mother Ida,
in Fast's childhood, he worked in assorted part-time jobs before graduating from
George Washington high school, New York, in 1931. That year, he sold a story to
the magazine Amazing Stories. At the age of 18, his first novel, Two Villages,
was published. He then attended the National Academy of Design in New York,
before resuming his career as a novelist.
His fourth book, Conceived In Liberty (1939), set during the American war of
independence, gave Fast a new subject matter - the heroism of the ordinary
American. It became a million seller. Citizen Tom Paine (1943) enshrined his
reputation. The historian Allan Nevins admired the novel, but wished that the
finer shades of historical truth, and the more delicate effects of art, had not
been sacrificed to the speed and energy of the narrative.
Harvey Swados made the terrible insult that Fast's conception of history was
rather like that of Cecil B DeMille. There is an uncomfortable truth in this
observation, and for several reasons.
The first is that Fast, like virtually every American writer from the 1920s on,
wrote cinematically. The chapter was not his natural structural device, but
rather the scene, envisaged in terms of a direct conflict between characters, or
structured around an image which would convey the essence of the story. His
books show a writer hungry for the speed of a quick procession of scenes, who
uses flashbacks, and sharply defined visual images conveyed through montage, to
make palatable the needed amount of historical explanation. There is nothing in
Fast like the studied disconnections between scene and character which John Dos
Passos made his own, and which DH Lawrence joyously parodied: "Broadway at night
- whizz! gone! - a quick-lunch counter! gone - a house on Riverside Drive, the
Palisades, night - gone!"
Fast was much easier on his readers, and certainly enjoyed a readership vastly
larger than that of Dos Passos. He wrote prolifically, publishing more than 40
novels under his own name, and 20 as EV Cunningham. He wrote plays, screenplays,
television plays, poetry, non-fiction books for children (Haym Salomon, Son Of
Liberty, 1941), popular political biographies (two books on Yugoslavia's
President Tito), a history of the Jews, and two accounts of his political
itinerary - The Naked God: The Writer And The Communist Party (1957), and Being
Red: A Memoir (1990).
He seldom wrote autobiographically; the nearest he came to a self-portrait was
in Citizen Tom Paine. For Paine, the greatest revolutionary propagandist of the
18th century, the likely fate of the American revolution of 1776, as well as of
the French of 1789, was betrayal and defeat. Paine knew the vicious attacks of
enemies in America and abandonment by his friends, as well as persecution and
imprisonment in France under the Jacobins.
And, indeed, Fast's novel is a portrait of the writer as revolutionary. It is
also a singularly harsh portrayal of the nature of revolution itself, and of the
terrible fate awaiting its creators; it belongs on the same shelf as Arthur
Koestler's novel of the fate of an old Bolshevik, Darkness At Noon (1940).
It was while writing Citizen Tom Paine that Fast joined the Communist party. The
wartime love affair with the Soviet Union and the Red army was at its peak. Fast
later showed himself to be an insightful diagnostician of the way good people,
worthy of affection and respect, were degraded, humiliated, lied to and betrayed
by Stalin and his conscienceless henchmen in the American party.
The title for his 1957 study, The Naked God: The Writer And Communism, was drawn
from a brief, brilliant passage reflecting on the East German Stalinist leader
Walther Ulbricht: "He has lost touch with humankind. For him are no more hopes
or visions or high dreams - only the caress of power over his righteousness."
It was not only communist politicians about whom such words seemed appropriate.
Wearing the robes of Ulbricht's party righteousness, such a man served at the
altar of a naked god. Fast's departure from the party, and his writings on the
party, inevitably attracted the broadsides of party polemicists, well-skilled in
the savage denunciation of renegades.
He knew what to expect, for he was himself a professional at such ritual
denunciations; they were part of the stock and trade of party life. He had
delighted in the comradeship of leftwing writers, whom he largely imagined to be
men of the people, like himself. The Chilean communist poet Pablo Neruda
dedicated a poem to Fast, and he was warmly greeted in Paris in 1949 by another
high- profile Communist party member, Pablo Picasso.
Visiting Soviet writers were entertained at the home he shared with his first
wife Bette. He believed in the kinship that united all men of goodwill and
progressive sentiments in the struggle against fascist aggression.
It was when Fast learned that the Soviet writer Boris Polovoy had lied to him
about the whereabouts of an admired Jewish writer (who had, in fact, been shot),
and when he learned that Alexander Fadeyev had lied to Mary McCarthy in 1949
about other "silent" Soviet writers, that Fast saw the moral bankruptcy that was
international communism's final legacy. Others, like Dos Passos, had seen it
earlier; some never saw it at all. For Fast, Khrushchev's 1956 speech was a
final cherry on the cake, when he finally felt able to say much of what he had
felt.
But he never became a professional anti-communist. There were too many novels
and books to write, and too much to say about freedom. Some of his work was
filmed, notably, in 1960, Spartacus, with a screenplay by another blacklisted
writer, Dalton Trumbo. In 1979, the 1944 novel, Freedom Road, became a TV
mini-series, starring Muhammad Ali as a former slave who becomes a senator after
the American civil war.
Fast's last novel, Greenwich, was published in 2000. Bette died in 1994. He is
survived by their son and daughter, his second wife Mercedes, whom he married in
1999, and her three sons.

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Shark
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Posts: 204
Hey Guys - Lily here!

THANKS TO ALL for the detailed accounts of the 1940-45 meetings and the awareness of the world.

I was only repeating above.......what I was told by the guide we walked with in Auschwitz and Birkenhaus a few weeks back. Her uncle was one who escaped. (Apparently - the Poles were allowed to dress in civi clothes and work right outside the gates......and some sort of opportunity presented itself - he hid in the field....and moved out at night).........He eventually got to Austria and then the free world authorities. She has been told by him...........that the entire world was aware of what was happening.....and turned their heads the other way.

The materials you have all presented really supports that.........thank you for making that clear.

When these mass graves are dug up......and the autrocities made public...........weapons of mass destruction seem so un important.

Nazi war machine or not...........we all should have stepped in to stop Auschwitz and Birkenhaus and that's the bottom line for me. We had the numbers on our side.

Lily

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Posts: 995
Parakeet
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Posts: 995
Quote:
Originally posted by babyquacker:
[qb] The price of freedom is costly and does not make the President wealthy. It costs ALL of us, including Pres.Bush and his family.[/qb]
Trish - the war in Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom.

and President Bush was born into a rich family that has got substantially richer as a direct result of his daddy's invasion of iraq and his own.

America's willingness to send thousands of its kids from mainly poor neighbourhoods overseas, to invade other nations and kill thousands of innocent people on behalf of corporate war profits for America's elite is not the same as "expanding freedom".

consolidating America's military and economic control of the middle east (and the world, via a monopoly on energy resources) is not "promoting liberty".

it's Pax Americana. and don't be surprised if not everybody likes it.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-01.htm

Neo-Con Agenda: Iran, China, Russia, Latin America...

by Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON - An influential foreign-policy neo-conservative with long-standing ties to top hawks in the administration of President George W Bush has laid out what he calls "a checklist of the work the world will demand of this president and his subordinates in a second term."

The list, which begins with the destruction of Fallujah in Iraq and ends with the development of "appropriate strategies" for dealing with threats posed by China, Russia and "the emergence of a number of aggressively anti-American regimes in Latin America," also calls for "regime change" in Iran and North Korea.

The list's author, Frank Gaffney, the founder and president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP), also warns that Bush should resist any pressure arising from the anticipated demise of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to resume peace talks that could result in Israel's giving up "defensible boundaries."

While all seven steps listed by Gaffney in an article published Friday morning in the 'National Review Online' have long been favored by prominent neo-cons, the article itself, 'Worldwide Value', is the first comprehensive compilation to emerge since Bush's re-election Tuesday.

It is also sure to be contested, not just by Democrats who, with the election behind them, are poised to take a more anti-war position on Iraq, but by many conservative Republicans in Congress. They blame the neo-cons for failing to anticipate the quagmire in Iraq and worry their grander ambitions, like those expounded by Gaffney, will bankrupt the Treasury and break an already-overextended military.

Yet its importance as a road map of where neo-conservatives -- who, with the critical help of Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, dominated Bush's foreign policy after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and the Pentagon -- want U.S. policy to go, was underlined by Gaffney's listing of the names of his friends in the administration who he said, "helped the president imprint moral values on American security policy in a way and to an extent not seen since Ronald Reagan's first term."

In addition to Cheney and Rumsfeld, he cited the most clearly identified -- and controversial -- neo-conservatives serving in the administration: Cheney's chief of staff, I Lewis "Scooter" Libby; his top Middle East advisors, John Hannah and David Wurmser; weapons proliferation specialist Robert Joseph and top Mideast aide Elliott Abrams, on the National Security Council (NSC).

Also on the roster are: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz; Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith; Feith's top Mideast aide William Luti, in the Pentagon; Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, and for global issues, Paula Dobriansky at the State Department.

Virtually all of the same individuals have been cited by critics of the Iraq War, including Democratic lawmakers and retired senior foreign service and military officials, as responsible for hijacking the policy and intelligence process that led to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Indeed, in a lengthy interview about the war on the most-watched public-affairs TV program, '60 Minutes', last May, the former head of the U.S. Central Command and Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief Middle East envoy until 2003, retired Gen. Anthony Zinni, called for the resignation of Libby, Abrams, Wolfowitz and Feith, as well as Rumsfeld, for their roles in the attack.

Zinni also cited former Defense Policy Board (DPB) chairman, Richard Perle, who has been close to Gaffney since both of them served, along with Abrams, in the office of Washington State Senator Henry M Jackson in the early 1970s.

When Perle became an assistant secretary of defense under Reagan he brought Gaffney along as his deputy. When Perle left in 1987, Gaffney succeeded him before setting up CSP in 1989.

As Perle's long-time prot�g� and associate, Gaffney sits at the center of a network of interlocking think tanks, foundations, lobby groups, arms manufacturers and individuals that constitute the coalition of neo-conservatives, aggressive nationalists like Cheney and Rumsfeld and Christian Right activists responsible for the unilateralist trajectory of U.S. foreign policy since 9/11.

Included among CSP's board of advisers over the years have been Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Christian moralist William Bennett, Abrams, Feith, Joseph, former United Nations Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick, former Navy Undersecretary John Lehman and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director James Woolsey.

Woolsey also co-chairs the new Committee on the Present Danger (CPD), another prominent neo-con-led lobby group that argues Washington is now engaged in "World War IV" against "Islamo-fascism."

Also serving on its advisory council are executives from some of the country's largest military contractors, which -- along with wealthy individuals sympathetic to Israel's governing Likud Party, such as prominent New York investor Lawrence Kadish and California casino king Irving Moskowitz, and right-wing bodies, such as the Bradley, Sarah Scaife and Olin Foundations -- finance CSP's work.

Gaffney, a ubiquitous "talking head" on TV in the run-up to the war in Iraq, sits on the boards of CPD's parent organisations, the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD) and Americans for Victory Over Terrorism (AVOT). He was a charter associate, with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz and Abrams, of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), another prominent neo-conservative-led group that offered up a similar checklist of what Bush should do in the "war on terrorism" just nine days after the 9/11 attacks.

His article opens by trying to pre-empt an argument that is already being heard on the right against expanding Bush's "war on terrorism": that since a plurality of Bush voters identified "moral values" as their chief concern, the president should stick to his social conservative agenda rather than expand the war.

"The reality is that the same moral principles that underpinned the Bush appeal on 'values' issues like gay marriage, stem-cell research and the right to life were central to his vision of U.S. war aims and foreign policy," according to Gaffney.

"Indeed, the president laid claim squarely to the ultimate moral value -- freedom -- as the cornerstone of his strategy for defeating our Islamofascist enemies and their state sponsors, for whom that concept is utterly (sic) anathema."

To be true to that commitment, policy in the second administration must be directed toward seven priorities, according to Gaffney, beginning with the "reduction in detail of Fallujah and other safe havens utilized by freedom's enemies in Iraq"; followed by "regime change -- one way or another -- in Iran and North Korea, the only hope for preventing these remaining 'Axis of Evil' states from fully realizing their terrorist and nuclear ambitions."

Third, the administration must provide "the substantially increased resources needed to re-equip a transforming military and rebuild human-intelligence capabilities (minus, if at all possible, the sorts of intelligence 'reforms' contemplated pre-election that would make matters worse on this and other scores) while we fight World War IV, followed by enhancing protection of our homeland, including deploying effective missile defenses at sea and in space, as well as ashore."

Fifth, Washington must keep "faith with Israel, whose destruction remains a priority for the same people who want to destroy us (and ... for our shared 'moral values') especially in the face of Yasser Arafat's demise and the inevitable, post-election pressure to 'solve' the Middle East problem by forcing the Israelis to abandon defensible boundaries."

Sixth, the administration must deal with France and Germany and the dynamic that made them "so problematic in the first term: namely, their willingness to make common cause with our enemies for profit and their desire to employ a united Europe and its new constitution -- as well as other international institutions and mechanisms -- to thwart the expansion and application of American power where deemed necessary by Washington."

Finally, writes Gaffney, Bush must adapt "appropriate strategies for contending with China's increasingly fascistic trade and military policies, (Russian President) Vladimir Putin's accelerating authoritarianism at home and aggressiveness toward the former Soviet republics, the worldwide spread of Islamofascism, and the emergence of a number of aggressively anti-American regimes in Latin America", which he does not identify.

"These items do not represent some sort of neo-con 'imperialist' game plan", Gaffney stressed. "Rather, they constitute a checklist of the work the world will demand of this president and his subordinates in a second term."

� Copyright 2004 IPS - Inter Press Service


CO SIE POLEPSZY, TO SIE POPIEPRZY....
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Parakeet
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Jaga - despite Bob's feverish Forrest Gump impressions, I wouldn't trust any results which were based on electronic voting with no paper audit trail. these systems have numerous flaws and are very vulnerable to hackers.


New York Times - An article titled "Computer Voting Is Open to Easy Fraud," presents the troubling results of a detailed study by Johns Hopkins University. "We found some stunning, stunning flaws." "The systems....could be tricked by anyone with $100 worth of computer equipment." "Ballots could be altered by anyone with access to a machine, so that a voter might think he is casting a ballot for one candidate while the vote is recorded for an opponent."

[url=BellaOnline ALERT: For anti-spam reasons, we restrict the number of URLs allowed in a given post. You have exceeded our maximum number of URLs.


CO SIE POLEPSZY, TO SIE POPIEPRZY....
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Parakeet
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as for actual fraud - evidence is unfortunately coming to light. make sure you look at the actual data in the links below....

Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
By Thom Hartmann
Common Dreams.org
11-7-4

When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.

And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004.

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available at [url=BellaOnline ALERT: For anti-spam reasons, we restrict the number of URLs allowed in a given post. You have exceeded our maximum number of URLs.


CO SIE POLEPSZY, TO SIE POPIEPRZY....
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