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Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118940
01/27/04 11:57 AM
01/27/04 11:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia
E
Eric N Offline OP
Koala
Eric N  Offline OP
Koala
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118941
01/28/04 01:37 AM
01/28/04 01:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
carlzim Offline
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carlzim  Offline
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Posts: 1
NJ, USA
I doubt whether any community of people today would show as much courage.

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118942
01/28/04 01:05 PM
01/28/04 01:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia
E
Eric N Offline OP
Koala
Eric N  Offline OP
Koala
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia
Quote:
Originally posted by sciwriter:
[qb] I doubt whether any community of people today would show as much courage. [/qb]
It's very unlikely. As I said in another forum, every person who survived the 900 days of blockade is a hero for being able to do so under those conditions.

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118943
01/29/04 06:28 AM
01/29/04 06:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 690
Kai 71 Offline
Gecko
Kai 71  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 690
All heroes? Can't argue with that, but can pick a point with your comment Carl. I believe there was an earlier discussion on some forum (same participants) where someone commented that Stalin forced the men and women to remain in Leningrad, and there was some effort to evacuate children.

Now being heroic and suffering immesurably is not to be demeaned by this. If they were forced to stay or not, they stayed and went through hell for their country - and died. I wish such suffering on no one! We owe hten a debt that is not recognized in the west.

Kai

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118944
01/29/04 03:52 PM
01/29/04 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,577
Idaho
JagaBella Offline
Tiger
JagaBella  Offline
Tiger
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,577
Idaho
Eric,

Kai has a point. Stalin demanded from people heroism even when there was an easier way out. Stalin killed so many and I still cannot understand why Russians do not remember this - but would blame Hitler on all.
You know, that Soviet soldiers were unable to go back to their country - they would rather expect deaths - if they were POW or if they were in any ways behind their own army.

So, many Sovie lives were lost because Stalin's government just did not care for human life.
Blaming this all on Hitler is .. in some ways controversial.

For instance Poles from Eastern parts of Poland which was invaded by Soviet Union in 1939 were deported to Siberia and Kazakshtan. MAny were killed in the camps or on the way, but at least when Hitler attacked they were given a chance to join the army. If Hitler would not attack they would die in purges - because Stalin was prepareing more. So, the war spared the lives of many people who would be killed by Stalin regime and it killed some - which could be saved by Stalin regime did not value human lives at all.

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118945
01/29/04 09:50 PM
01/29/04 09:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
carlzim Offline
Newbie
carlzim  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
Jaga, Stalin would have made a deal with Hitler if British intelligence service didn't work continuously behind the scenes, e.g., they manipulated Mussolini to invade Greece in 1940. The Greeks were defeating Mussolini's army, so Hitler had to divert his troops to save Mussolini's soldiers. Fearing a Soviet attack on his reduced forces in Poland, Hitler attacked Soviets. Carl

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118946
01/29/04 09:51 PM
01/29/04 09:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
carlzim Offline
Newbie
carlzim  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
It's still the same old story. I call your attention to these scenes:

Lillian Hellman's play: "Watch on the Rhine:" On a train in USA in WW2:
Passenger: What is your occupation?
Anti-Nazi underground leader from Germany: I'm in the business of fighting Fascism.

Movie: Casablanca (1943):

Anti-Nazi underground leader (Paul Henreid: You have quite a record. You ran guns to the Ethiopians. You fought against the Fascists in Spain. Is it coincidental that you always were on the side of the underdog.

Rick (Humphrey Bogart). I found that was an expensive occupation.

The struggle continues today. Carl

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118947
01/30/04 07:21 PM
01/30/04 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 420
NY
IceQueen Offline
Gecko
IceQueen  Offline
Gecko
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 420
NY
Quote:
I still cannot understand why Russians do not remember this - but would blame Hitler on all.
Because you would be executed by your own government (during Stalin's reign) if you as much as thought about blaming Stalin.

My grandma has lived through Leningrad Blockade, by the way.


If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118948
01/30/04 10:02 PM
01/30/04 10:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
carlzim Offline
Newbie
carlzim  Offline
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
NJ, USA
Kai, agreed! Stalin hated Leningrad due to its Western influence & independent thinking. Carl

Re: Pictures remembering Leningrad Blockade #118949
01/30/04 11:47 PM
01/30/04 11:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia
E
Eric N Offline OP
Koala
Eric N  Offline OP
Koala
E
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,046
St. Petersburg, Russia
I can't BELIEVE you're putting so much blame for the whole thing on Leningrad now! Pretty soon you'll be blaming Leningraders themselves for the blockade, or at least say it's what they had coming to them!!

You should never forget the courage and heroism it took to survive such conditions. You should also remember that the people refused to give up for love of their city and homeland.

Even today, more than a decade after the end of the USSR, on days remembering the blockade, and on Victory Day, the residents of the city are again referred to as Leningraders. Still today are monuments EVERYWHERE to "Hero-City Leningrad". And NO ONE in their right minds would ever take these monuments down. The 900-day blockade was perhaps THE most difficult period in the city's 300 year history.

There is no other way to think about it. Those who survived the blockade are heroes for being able to do the impossible. Hitler's army was definately superior, and yet even then Leningraders refused to surrender their city. If it had come down to it, they probably would have burnt the city themselves to keep Hitler from having it.

It was dedication, patriotism, pride, courage, heroism, loyalty.

Stalin COULD have easily let Hitler take over Leningrad, or give it back to the Finns, or do whatever he wanted to. After the war, he could have prevented the government from spending resources stretched to the limits already to rebuild the historical and architectural monuments destroyed during the war, and taken away all of Leningrad's unique character. Instead, Stalin ordered that the city be rebuilt and reborn.

Some of the comments I've seen posted here would get you immediate hatred if you were to repeat them in St. Petersburg. Even today, it's difficult to even think about what happened, but it's necessary. People shouldn't forget history, and they certainly should never forget the sacrifices mady by Leningraders during the blockade.

Those who survived deserve praise and utmost respect, not condemnation. I'm very disappointed with all of you.

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