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#400234 - 03/29/08 09:37 AM Is Belt Spanking Abuse?
Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames Offline
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Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 20488
My grandmother remembers as a child that when she was bad she was sent out into the yard to find a willow branch - and her mother would then beat her with it. So she had to choose her own "beating implement". Kids used to be beaten with belts, too. I was once hit repeatedly with my own sneaker.

Is this abuse - or is this the way to teach children not to do something again?
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#400246 - 03/29/08 12:04 PM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames]
Shannon L. Wolf Offline
Parakeet

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 988
Loc: Vermont, USA
This is abuse. My mother used to make us go find our own switch, too. She would inspect it to make sure it wasn't too skimpy. If it was, we had to go and get a thicker one. Then she would place it on top of the refrigerator, sticking out just over the edge so that we could see it. She never actually used it on us, but let it be there as a constant threat. Before "child abuse" was a term, hitting, spanking and beating with a belt was acceptable child rearing. Now society knows better, yet some parents still practice brutality on their children. But a parent can use words and mannerisms to abuse as well - this was my mother's form of torment.

My ex-husband was beaten with a leather belt by his father. He grew up to be an emotional and psychological abuser. Just like my mother. If you abuse your child, you will produce either another abuser, a victim or someone who fluctuates between the two.

Shay
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#400529 - 03/30/08 04:04 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Shannon L. Wolf]
Kelli Deister Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 576
Loc: Hawaii
I believe that spanking with a belt is indeed abuse. My parents used my father's belt on us when we were growing up. I don't believe that it is acceptable discipline. If we hit our kids to teach them a lesson than they will most likely grow up to think that is the way to resolve a problem. Hitting is abuse, plain and simple. Whether with your hands, a belt, a stick or switch etc. I agree that our society knows better now and spanking should be a thing of the past.
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#400539 - 03/30/08 04:23 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Kelli Deister]
Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames Offline
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Shay - that's exactly what my grandmother said. She said she was nervous choosing the switch because if it wasn't solid enough she'd get something worse - so it was a balancing act of getting something "just barely nasty enough". But they did get hit with them, right after the selection process.

I was spanked until I was 13 or 14 - right up until I grew taller than my mother. Then one day she went to hit me and I got defensive - I really didn't want to be hit. She saw that look in my eyes that I might actually try to defend myself and she stopped. So the only reason she really stopped hitting me was that she was no longer bigger than me. That alone told me something.
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#400543 - 03/30/08 04:45 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames]
Nicki - BF & EC Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
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Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 602
As a proponent and advocate of Positive Discipline, which is a completely non-punitive and ideally non-coercive, non-manipulative form of "discipline," I personally find the idea of hitting a child completely reprehensible.

Now that's not to say that I wouldn't ever feel like hitting my kid. But I often feel like hitting a grown-up as well. And yet, most adults understand that hitting another adult is not acceptable, and considered assault. But at least adults can defend themselves.

Children are COMPLETELY dependent on us -- for shelter, for food, for all forms of security and especially for love and approval and self-worth. Hitting a child, and setting ourselves up as a threat and a source of fear, instead of love and guidance and couldn't be a bigger violation of the responsibility we take and the promise we make to them when we decide to have them in the first place. Regardless of whether spanking is abuse in any legal or moral framework, there is no upside. There is nothing that spanking can accomplish that more gentle discipline and guidance cannot. And in a practical sense, spanking and punitive discipline is actually often counterproductive.

Hmmm.. I'm not opinionated on this, am I? wink

Nicki
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#400547 - 03/30/08 05:05 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Nicki - BF & EC Editor]
msbaby Offline
Gecko

Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 595
Loc: The Sunny Southland
How often did kids that were spanked with belts also get hit with the buckle? Probably more times than once. I've heard horror stories from people who were disciplined with belts, wooden spoons..you name it.

How a parent could tell a child not to hit other children and then turn around and smack them themselves is amazing. To hit a child is not only abusive; it's demeaning.

If we control with power, when our babies grow up and get out of our sight I believe that they will have no self discipline. The mind set will be that there's nobody there to hit them and bring them back in line so....go for it!

I feel the same way about raising your voice and screaming at children. Screaming is emotionally abusive. My motto is to teach, teach, teach not scream and hit.

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#400557 - 03/30/08 05:27 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: msbaby]
M o e Offline
Tiger

Registered: 02/26/04
Posts: 6398
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I definitely consider belt spanking abuse. My mother use to hit me with her leather work belt. It had little metal circles around the center that would leave welts on my legs. She stopped using it when she was caught by my grandfather. He said he would disown her if she ever used it again. I don't remember the circumstances that ever lead up to being struck I only remember the treatment. It's probably one of the reasons my mother and I are not close.
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#400558 - 03/30/08 05:33 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: msbaby]
GreyDrakkon Offline
Gecko

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 613
My mom used to tell me that when she was a kid, if she did something wrong her mom would take her by the hand and TAP it with her fingers saying "Don't-do-that!" (well, except in french). This was enough to make my mom bawl like a baby, since her parents never hit or yelled at her or her siblings unless they did something horrendous. On the other hand, she said that while at school (!) the teacher would use a ruler to beat the students. Her brothers would grit their teeth and laugh at the teacher to get him really mad, so mad that he'd break the ruler on them. That is just another thing that can happen when you resort to physical punishment, it's all too easy to get "carried away" with it, for it to be a fight between egos instead of teaching the kid not to do something wrong. Just like the battle of egos between you, Lisa, and your mother. She found out that her ego no longer outstripped yours and that she could wind up being the one with a whack.

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#400566 - 03/30/08 05:43 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: Nicki - BF & EC Editor]
freespirit Offline
Koala

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 2142
I think it depends on the age your talking about and what they did. I remember running away from home at 2 yr old I saw a nice couple setting on the porch a few blocks down the road and wondered over while my mom when to the bathroom inside. I had just learned how to open the chicken coup gate (this was where I played it had a sandbox and grass no chickens or anything it just had the chicken wire fence...)I got out and ran down the road to go play with the nice people. of course my mom came out the gate open and thought someone had taken me or something so she starts screaming for me trying to find me in a panic when she saw that I was down the road playing in these peoples yard she came and got me and busted my butt with her hand all the way home saying you dont cross the street by yourself ever ever ever and repeated it until we got home and you know when I got made at 8 and wanted to run away from home I packed a can of corn my tapes and player and my dog and a old t shirt of dad's and a picture of us (he had died a few year before) and I ran to the Allie looked both ways and when to the neighbors house but I did not CROSS the street by myself! I think spanking kids when they are very little and stubborn like me is ok if it is for something major like I could have been hit by a car kidnapped.... and at the time I thought my butt would fall off and I didnt set down for the rest of the day either but there was not a mark on me and she didnt use a belt or anything.
When I was about 14 I told my mom that I did not have to do anything she wanted me to do and I could do what I wanted to do. She went to hit me and I fought her I am 5 times her size! She hit me on the butt with her hand and I said that dont hurt and laughed...she got a belt and whopped my but and the back of my thighs until I said I was sorry and I would never say it again!. THAT was a mistake I didnt made again either! I learned how to set down and have a respectful conversation and reason out the problem and lesson to her side of the story and not just think and care about what I wanted!

now with that said... I dont think spanking a kid for every little thing is right you just teach them that hitting is ok as long as you are bigger and older! they dont mind any better just because you hit them. and to flat out beat a child is wrong and they should be shot! but I see so many kids that throw tantrums in the middle of the store and they are 10 or so years old and then I see so many kids that beg and pleaded until there parents give in whether it is good for the child or not.

I was broke of that before it got started and I only did it one time and that was all it took! when my mom said no and I kept it up she would say I will bust your behind! and She would too if she said it she meant it! and back in the 80 around here no one thought twice about it. by the time I was 5 I could set in public and play by myself or set quietly I did not interrupted adults talking and I did not asked to be invited along with others or asked them to buy me something! If they adults were telling stories I could set with them and lesion in and even get to talk and tell stories of my own.

I like kids who are this way. They make me want to play with them and be around them. but the ones that are like YOU HAVE TO BUY ME this or that or TAKE me here or there I cant stand! I really dislike them and then they grow up with that same attitude and I really really hate them!

I think the reward good behavior and the time out chair and all that is fine for most things but if that doesnt work to stop problems like tantrums and fits and doing dangerous things like running into the street or getting into the medicine cabinet... then it is time to bust some butt and stick to your guns it you just threaten that just makes it worse. I bet my mother busted my butt 10 time my whole life and my dad busted me for stealing a thing of chap stick when I was 3. he busted my butt and made me return the chap stick to the store manager and say I was sorry! I never stole anything again after that! I dont dare! He may come back from the dead and bust my [censored] again and he promised he would bust me better the next time...

the thing about busting kids is that if you just threaten then they will do it over and over again because maybe you will but probably not so it is worth it to go something bad and get away with it most of the time. BUT beating the kid for every little thing without explanation doesnt help either. I always KNEW what I was getting busted for and WHY. I knew what the rules where and what would happen if i broke them even at 2yrs old I may not have understood the why but I knew dont meant dont and no meant no! I could ask why and my mom would explain but when kids are little they dont care why or need to be reasoned to or any of that they want what they want and that's it!

In my experiments babysitting kids that have parents they will bust the butts when and only when they TRUELY NEED it are better kids. I never lasted long at the houses where they did the time out chair (after a while they figure out that they dont have to stay because you will just send them back to the chair and it is a fight that they always win unless you bust there butts the first time and any other time they get out of the chair!) so busting is the last resort in any case. and when it is not then the kids run wild and the parents and everyone else who have the displeasure of coming into contact with this hellion are slaves or at lest miserable!

I Know I will probably be shot for this post but it is just IMHO!
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Albert Einstein: True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness.


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#400575 - 03/30/08 05:56 AM Re: Is Belt Spanking Abuse? [Re: freespirit]
freespirit Offline
Koala

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 2142
oh if bty If I had not been 5 times my mothers size when she belted me I would conserter it abuse but since she is soooooo small it kind of balenced out. I knew I could have taken the belt away anyways... but I had and still have a healthy respect for my mom. I dont hold with the belt whipping for younger or smaller kids but when they are teens and everybit as big as there parents it kind of evens out. but I would not recommed using a belt everyday on a teenager. by the time a kid hits 9 or 10 they should be old enough to reason with and know the rules and have respect for there parents... my mom belted me because I thought I had out grow the belt and there for I was an adult and could do what I wanted to do. One time and I learned my leason!!! She had asked then told me to set down and we would talk about it but oh no not hard headed stubburn me I didnt care what she thought wanted ot needed I was going to do it anyways I was in charge now! WRONG!!! that was all it took the 4 hit with the leather part of the belt and my mom crying that did it!

she didnt use the buckel or anything like that and she didnt leave a mark on me it stung bad enough to get my attention but that was all.
_________________________
Alan Bennett: Life is like a tin of sardines; we're all looking for the key.
Albert Einstein: True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness.


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