To none and all ,
This might be a long text.After many meditations on where I was heading on Buddhism,Tonite the pieces of the puzzle came
together.
Siddharta Gautama,son of king,left all the luxeries of his palace,to discover ,why the suffering ,aging ,death and birth.
After 7 years of meditation as an ascetic,he discovered the middle path.
He started sharing his findings with all types of people.His
Dharma.many of his speaches are contained in the Pali Canon on latts of bamboo if I remember well.(THAT IS ,WAS).

Then what he had spoken ,was considered by a group Called Mahayana,not profound enough,not researched enough.So some sort of schism ,started takin form,saying that the theravadin were not flexible enough,and started changing ,not the basic gist of Buddha's way to Nirvanna,but whom Bhudda was,.His basic messages even were changed.I am reading a book by Sogyal Rinpoche ,where in the first 8 pages ,he mentions eternity,Buddha preached Impermanence.Mahayana ,whom I have no idea of whom formed that lineage,made Buddha ,in a God figure, where Buddha is in every branch, clouds,water,sentient beings etc.

Quite different from the original Buddha that just made a set of rules to attain enlightenment.That is what he is NOW.

When I started posting here I was a pure Theravadin,until I realized that Lisa was Vahjrana Mahayana.So I started looking at Mahayana,so as not to create .differences in which ,the uninformed would not have understood.

To a Beginner ,Buddha shall be whatever lineage he follows.
(that is will be)
One thing I discovered ,most major changes came around 6 th century AFTER Jesus.

As for myself,I will take what Buddha was.With openmindness on some Mahayana Masters.

Sorry to have disturbed the quietness of the Buddhism section,however,this stand had to be taken ,because I was loosing faith in Buddhism.

loong
part of the Universe

To all or none,

Peace has already set in.May you find Peace on your Path

loong
part of the Universe

Hi Loong, I am glad that you feel more settled in your own path. That is the most important thing. I do want to clarify though that I don't identify myself in terms of any lineage or path at this point - Buddhist or otherwise. I just consider myself on the path to awakening - as many have been before me and many will be after, without a 'label.' I don't believe Buddhism is the only path in which to awaken, and at this point I draw on many different kinds of practices in my path, whatever pulls me to it at different times, so there is no need for labels. Which is exactly what the Buddha did, and as you know he did not want a 'religion' or even a philosophy founded in his name. He just wanted people to awaken.

So I don't consider myself as a 'follower' of the Buddha. Therefore I do not choose my path according to which system claims they have the most direct line to 'authentic' Buddhist teachings. Although of course Mahayana do make similar claims, if you want to dive into all that history. The Dalai Lama has written a book about this called The Middle Way.

Personally, I choose my own path and meditations according to the impact they have on my own life and awareness. When I read a teaching, or practice a meditation, I look at how it impacts me. Does it open my heart? Does it open my mind? When I look at others that follow that path or teaching, do I see their hearts opening? Do I see their minds expanding? Are they becoming kinder? Are the becoming stronger? Are they wise? Otherwise there is no point to the path. I don't care how many sutras someone can quote.

So the initial Buddhist teacher that I met almost 25 years ago happened to be Vajrayana Mahayana. And because I had always been highly intuitive as a child, the esoteric side of that path appealed to me. And over time, the changes I saw in myself and others around me met the criteria above - the changes in my heart, and in my understanding. At a certain point, identifying myself as a Buddhist no longer made sense, as I was also studying many other traditions. I am just on my path, it does not need a name.

But I do know many who find that the best course (skillful means - upaya) for them is to identify as Buddhist and focus on a specific set of tools meant to work together - i.e. specific meditations and sutra or tantra teachings, so there is some coherance. And certainly if one is working with a teacher (which I no longer formally am) that is essential. So I respect that.

So to me, this distinction you make in your post between us is not real, but I guess if it is useful to you that is OK. You are on your path. I am on my path. We can debate history, we can debate interpretations, we can suggest different practices that work for us, that is the point of this forum. And so much of Buddhism IS the same across traditions anyway.

My question to you is - why do you feel you need to identify as anything? Why not just read with an open mind and heart and see what it has to offer you? Why the need to define yourself? Just practice.

Also, just to clarify, 'eternity' as Sogyal Rinpoche is using it does NOT mean the opposite of transience. He is trying to appeal to a Western audience, so uses that word. If you dive into dzgochen, which is what he is trying to convey, it is primordial awareness that is discovered when one truly sees the transience of all states. It cannot be described or labelled really. But 'eternity' is the word he chooses, because he has to choose some word right? How do you describe something in words that is actually a realization beyond words?

Dear lisa,

Really liked the clarifications that you would usually just whisk by.

I once. asked an ex monk that had disrobed,WHY?
He said he did not beleiv in the Dharma anymore. Could that be part of your
Path as we speak.You spoke of Dzgochen buddhism,glanced at it..

So I choose my path,my Buddha,my Dharma 'Sangha being the entire world of
Buddists.

Being brought up catholic ,guilt is still inherent to my looks at things.

To me precision exactitude,are an inherent part of whom I am.

Walking numerous paths at the same time was a big part of my spiritual journey.

As for Eternity by Sogyal Rinpoche,Eternity means eternity,for ever,permanent.

you see ,I always write ,afraid of displeasing 2 Lisas,now I will write to please
?
Normand/loong

With a grand friendship

Loong son of the Universe

No, but I don't believe Buddhism is the only keeper of the dharma. That is how I would put it. So my not calling myself a Buddhist has nothing to do with rejecting Buddhism, just rejecting a label. It is more for other people, as some Buddhists would consider it disrespectful for me to call myself Buddhist if I am inclusive of other traditions in my path. Others would not care, but it doesn't matter to me, so I choose the option that seems the most respectful to others. Keep in mind that I did call myself Buddhist for almost 15 years. It really doesn't matter that much to me.

To Lisa,

Thought I had forgotten something!

When you say that Sogyal Rinpoche is using the word eternity,DOESnot meen

The opposite of Transciencewhat then is he talking about?


Always remember, there is no place in my heart for malice..

YOUare my only source of reference,for that I thank you so much.

Just bowing
Loong
Son of the Universe.

Has he begun to talk about dzogchen in that book yet? He will do a much better job of explaining this than me! But I will try. I think he was forced to use the word 'eternity' because there are not many English words other than that to use. But by eternity he does not mean 'heaven' or an essential reality apart from human perception. Mahayana Buddhists are sometimes accused of that, but I think that is a mis-reading. I also think that when writing in English for Western audiences, these words 'eternal' and 'eternity' creep in because it is hard to discuss some things otherwise. But they don't mean the same thing that they do in Judeo-Christian writings.

So here goes:

You practice observing the transience of your own thoughts, emotions, and sensations, and all phenomena. When you deeply realize the transience of all that arises, who/what realizes that? If you then turn your attention to that which is observing the transience, you might find the core of the sense of 'I' - the collectiong of samskaras that you have come to think of as 'I'. You realize this is transient too. Who/what realizes that? Is it not transient also? You can continue on in this way forever. This is the heart of inquiry practice. What is it that continues on realizing these levels of transience? How can this realizing go on and on in this way?

This is dzogchen - primordial awareness, root awareness, raw awareness. It is neither transient nor eternal, subjective or objective, separate from human perception or part of it. It cannot be described in words because words are dualistic, and this is non-dual awareness. You can only realize or discover it - words may point to it, but not describe it.

Dear Lisa

My next research will be on Dzgochen,lineage in about 5 minutes from now.
Sorry to keep you away from your other projects.Ido believe that this project(loong)
Will not bother you too much .



With great respect

Loong
Son of the universe

To Lisa.

Thank you for your patience.It makes me realise that I have to have an identification.This is and will change.

Boy do I like your spunk.

Loong

To Lisa

Not too many people know I have a damaged brain on the cognitive side.Sharing is so powerful,while reading on dzogchen,It lead me to cognitive deseases,where I learned more in 5 minutes than doctors,in years.
Everything we have exchanged ,in the last months,were like
a suite of steps for me to do.Hope this goes on.Will go on reading the book ,but with a less narrow mindedness.

The Universe really chose the right person ,for me to do a walk
with.

_/\_
loong
son of the Universe

Dear Lisa,

In your post #797514, the last paragraph sounds like the words used to describe

DAO, for those who do not know the meaning of the word it is the basis for daoism,in english taoism.
Read more on dzogchen,who claim to be the highest most definite path Enlightenment........
Quite a statement from a lineage that was formed around 600 years after Jesus.
As for Bon,it is said to be 17,000 years old,however documents relating to it were not found before 9 or 10th century.

To lisa

Sorry if my message was cut short,working on my tablette,it does crazy things.
Iwanted to close my post by repeating your words about ,the path.Dzogchen is not where I will be walking.

Thank you for your precious comments.

Loong
son of the Universe