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Posted By: ExerciseEditor Do you give money to bums? - 05/10/11 12:00 AM
My boyfriend told me a bum came up to him the other day outside the store where he shops for groceries after work some days and asked him for $5.

He says the guy stunk like alcohol so he offered to buy him a sandwich. The walked into the store together and then the guy says wait I'm gonna go get some chips. He told the guy not to push his luck.

Can you believe this guy? The nerve of asking for so much and then trying to take more than what is being offered. I wonder how many bums get away with this kind of thing.
Posted By: ganda Re: Do you give money to bums? - 05/18/11 05:58 PM
It's something that happens a lot. that's the price of helping others, it's you who has to be in control. if you don't then they will.
Posted By: .... Re: Do you give money to bums? - 05/18/11 06:14 PM
Money? No. Fruit? Yes. I usually keep apples or oranges in my knapsack. If someone is truly destitute for food, the fruit is welcome. Should it be refused, I merrily go on my way. I don't give $ hand outs. I'll offer to teach a skill or give a piece of fruit but throwing money at someone or something, doesn't make the root of the problem go away. Never does, never will.
Posted By: Lisa LowCarb Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 06:36 PM
I definitely like the food idea. I do have to say though that there are lots and lots of soup kitchens out there. Usually I see panhandlers in a city where I know there is a good soup kitchen. So I have to wonder why they are asking for food when it's right there.

If it was someone in a rural community where they don't have a soup kitchen then I might take the request more seriously.

In terms of why they press, my sociology teachers would say that they have been trained by their situation that this is the best path to success. That is, let's say they never press for more. Then they never get more. However if they do press for more each time, let's say it only works 20% of the time. But that's 20% more free stuff, for zero effort. So each time it works they are trained to keep doing it.

It's like a kid who whines for treats. If the mother never says yes, the kid will give up. It's a proven failure (and might get the mom angry with them too). But let's say 20% of the time the mom gives in and gives a treat. This tells the kid to keep doing it! If they get success a full 20% of the time, what do they have to lose? If they never ask, they'll never get anything.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 06:59 PM
I have never given out money to a homeless person or bum. I have given food to two men who asked for help - one was an elderly man sitting by the freeway hitching a ride and the other was a handicapped young veteran who was hungry.

What I did was to go to a fast food place, got coffee and a good sandwich, then drove back to where I saw the guy and gave him the bag of food. I only did this twice in my life and both times the guys were very nice and appreciative.

About two years ago my grandson and I wanted to go to Burger King for lunch. I did not have a car, so we walked the four blocks to get there. After we finished eating and went outside, this young man in his twenties got out of a really nice sporty car, approached us and asked me for money to buy lunch with. He said he was really hungry. My grandson, then 10, looked at the guy and said, "Dude! You are standing there with a new haircut, a leather jacket, designer jeans and tennis shoes, have a nice car - and you are asking my Grandma for money. Get a job!, man."

I was so proud of Grandson. We just walked away as the guy turned to the next possible hand-out.

I have heard that a lot of people, especially men, have quit their jobs to pan-handle and make more money than when they worked.
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 07:25 PM
I've given money to a few homeless ppl, there was one guy in the train station, and he looked so ill and helpless - I think he was on heroin - I gave him some money because I felt sorry for him. I've given money to alcoholics before, I sort of wish they'd say it was for drugs or drink though. I've known a few alcoholics so I relate to their pain and I feel pity on them. I've given homeless people food as well before - they've never not taken it.

There's this one homeless guy that lives in my city that has a bad rep - he came up to me one day and asked for money and I said I didn't have any, so he said he could hear the change in my pocket and that I was lying - he was really threatning though - so if I recall, I gave him some change. If I see him now, I just ignore him and walk away if he approaches me.

Mostly, I feel sorry for ppl in those predicaments, but they can come on too strong and be a bit scary too. I've known homeless ppl personally and they've been given apartments, but they just can't not live on the street - two ppl I knew of gave up their places and went back to the streets.
Posted By: Lisa LowCarb Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 07:26 PM
I agree completely that it bothers me a lot when people who have luxury items ask for money. There are stories in the media about women with Coach bags going to food stamp places. They can sell the bag. That's a luxury item. They need, in my opinion, to get their priorities straightened out.
When I worked at a large urban high school, kids were always asking me for money. I never gave them any. If they needed a school supply or some food, I would get it for them. I supplied peanut butter sandwiches for breakfast every day. There was real whole wheat bread, peanut butter, and jelly. If the kids cleaned up after themselves, it stayed. The minute it started looking crummy, and I had to clean up, the food was gone for two weeks. Clean-up wasn't a problem, because they knew that I was serious about their responsibilities.

Supplies, yes! Money, no way.
Posted By: Lisa LowCarb Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 08:32 PM
Connie -

That was very sweet of you, to help them stay fed. Some children come from abusive families where they simply are not cared for. Hopefully we as a society are getting better at spotting those kinds of issues, but it still happens of course. I do have to say that, in the US, we are doing far better than say in the 1800s with having at least options for people who are starving. It wasn't that long ago that a person could starve in the street and there was no choice for them.
Posted By: Nerdy Millennial Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 09:47 PM
No, I won't give money to bums. I will offer to buy them some food. Usually they decline.
Posted By: Dianne W - Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 09:59 PM
It's so funny for me to see this post today. I was at the gas station and a woman asked if I had money to lend her to buy gas. She turned red, covered her face...It looked so geniune. I didn't have any cash on me, but I think I would have given her a couple of dollars.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I realize there are some that take advantage, but there are so many down on their luck right now. If they smelled like alcohol, probably not - but it's difficult to discern sometimes but there are times that I just feel it in my heart that this person would do well with the money.



Posted By: Maria - Prime Time TV Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/10/11 10:05 PM
I remember one time I was on my way to New Jersey from Maryland and I stopped at a rest stop. There was a man there telling a story about how he was stranded and didn't have a way home, ran out of money, car broke down, etc. I didn't have any cash to give him. Two days later on my way back, I stopped at the same rest stop. Can you believe the same man was there, with the same story, telling it like it had just happened? I couldn't believe his nerve. As soon as I told him that he had come up to me 2 days ago, he starting walking off really quickly.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/11/11 07:44 AM
I give food to homeless people all the time. When i lived in seattle I'd make an extra meal some of the time and bring it out to my local homeless friend.

I usually have extra food bars in my car so i can hand them out to ppl on the sides of the road who are hungry.

I never give out money. I have none to give. But usually I can pass along food to share.
Posted By: Astera Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/11/11 09:19 AM
If it feels good - do it. Some time you will win and some time you will loose.
Posted By: Dianne W - Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/11/11 11:01 AM
Well said Astera!!!
Posted By: Linda19 Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/11/11 11:09 AM
I taught my children at a very young age to give to those less fortunate than themselves. Now they will empty the change from their pockets and give it to someone who needs it.

I always give money to people, no matter what they want it for. Who am I not to share what I have with someone else less fortunate, and who am I to judge that person for what they may need that money for? If someone asks me and I have it, I give, no questions asked.

Money is for sharing! That is what charity is all about. Most human beings are far from charitable, in fact, they are darn right greedy and selfish!

I firmly believe in the more you give, the more you receive and so far I have been lucky. I have never gone without food, water or a roof over my head.

And for that I thank God every day!
Posted By: Susan Helene Kramer Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/11/11 12:08 PM
When I moved to Holland to live with my hubby I noticed he put 2 50 cent pieces in his pocket each day to give to beggars. He said he sees the face of Christ in them.

When I lived in the states and took my daughter to the mall and Subway sandwich shop I got an extra sandwich to give to the veterans at the parking lot entrance who put up a cardboard sign - I will work in exchange for food. I just gave them the food. I've read that 75% of homeless are mentally ill and I feel compassion for their plight.

Nearly always give. If they are obviously drunk, in some way frightening or quite obviously �out to make money without having to work for it� then no, but otherwise yes.

When there is an animal with them, and sometimes they stand outside shops in Germany, then I add dog, or in some cases cat, food to my own shopping as well as something for the pet�s owner to eat and drink. It is always amazing how well they look after their pets, probably their only companions.

Can only assume many, not all, of these folk would not be there if there had not been some type of terrible crisis in their lives that had brought about the situation.

My father always gave wherever we were. A �lapsed� Catholic, and not someone who had ever experienced any type of deprivation in his own life, he explained this by saying �There but for the grace of God go I�.

The only people I see asking for money (in my home town) recently are those who have lost jobs. Most of them, you can tell, are only out there because they are desperately trying to support themselves and/or families. I always give whatever cash I have on me to them.

I have a friend who was once a drug addict. She lived on the street in a big city in Texas - under a bush. She said that the best thing anyone could have done for her at that time was to give her a plate of food. Money would have gone to drugs.
Posted By: Lisa LowCarb Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/27/11 10:01 PM
Lynne -

I would agree with that. Giving them food sustains their body hopefully long enough until they can get support and treatment. Giving them cash for drugs sends them closer to death.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/27/11 10:13 PM
I did want to add that I am a little uncomfortable calling homeless people or panhandlers bums. It's awfully negative. These people could be us, at any time. I would hope for a more compassionate term.
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/29/11 09:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Jilly
I did want to add that I am a little uncomfortable calling homeless people or panhandlers bums. It's awfully negative. These people could be us, at any time. I would hope for a more compassionate term.


Jilly smile Thank God someone said it! I was going to say it in my first post but decided against it. It also sounds quite comical, but mostly just negative, I agree.
Posted By: Lisa LowCarb Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/29/11 09:50 PM
That's a good point. We affect our world with our language. Apparently "bum" came from a German word for loafer, implying they deliberately choose not to work to fully pay their bills. They deliberately choose to live off the efforts of others - which is not necessarily true.

They aren't all homeless. People with homes still ask for money.

Panhandlers is an odd term - I don't think anyone in current times goes around with a metal pan to ask for money.

Maybe "Beggars" is more accurate because they are begging for money? Beg is the appropriate word when someone pleads for someone else to provide assistance.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 07/29/11 10:09 PM
When I was a kid they were called "tramps" and stayed on the railroad lines. My grandparents told us kids to stay away from them because they snatched up kids and tied them up in those old blankets they tied to sticks and held over their shoulders. We never went near the railroad tracks behind our grandparents home because of the "tramps".

Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 01:47 AM
Yeah, we used to call them "tramps" over here too, and "beggers" and homeless. I like the word vagrant though - I picked it up in high school and thought I was smart knowing a word no-one else did haha, so it's stuck with me.

Bums are what we sit on over here (bottom) LOL smile
Posted By: ShalasBeads Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 02:17 AM
Yes. I do give money, food, blankets, and scarves. I also donate regularly to our local food banks and soup kitchens.
When people say "Well, they are just going to spend it on..." all I can say is that's their choice just as it's mine to give them the money to do it.

There was a guy I knew named Henry when I was a teenager. I was going through a very rough patch, and he was a downtown "bum" who slept in parks when it was warm and in laundry rooms or the local shelter when it was cold. He was a good guy who had been through things that pretty much just broke him for "normal life". People can say there is all the help out there if you're willing to take it, and that may be true. But what if you're too weak or too broken? Does that mean you don't deserve kindness anymore? That you are no longer human? Henry was a person. He offered to buy me a meal once because he was flush, and offered me kindness without judgment when I needed it. When I did get back on my feet, I wasn't going to be one more do-gooder trying to save him. He didn't want to be saved. Last time I saw him, he had no idea who I was. I emptied my pockets, and gave him the jacket I was wearing. I had food, I had a warm house that was my own. If all I could give him was a little Novocaine to help him through the night, then I would. I believe he has since died, at least I haven't seen him in any of his usual haunts.
But he's a person. They are all people. Once I hand them the 5 dollars or whatever I give them, it's theirs to do with as they please. I would hope that if it were me, or someone I loved, someone else would do the same. Just for the sake of being human and never letting another person become invisible to them.
If you don't want them spending your hard earned cash on alcohol or drugs, consider carrying fast food gift certificates. Some fruits, granola bars, etc can be hard for people who have dental problems to eat. Most fast food places have something on the menu, consider if you live in a cold climate carrying a couple old spare jackets in the trunk. I make simple scarves and hats with inexpensive fleece with my daughter and we hand them out as needed.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 08:31 PM
Shala, that is very well spoken. You are a very kind person. I think i will start to carry jackets in my car. At least after summer passes!

And you are right about fruit and granola bars - one of my vagrant friends in Seattle - thanks for the word, Steve! - had only a few teeth, and there were a bunch of things he really could not eat.
Posted By: ExerciseEditor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 08:53 PM
Call it whatever. There are many words for the same thing and some words have many meanings.

An a** is also a bum and also means donkey or stupid or foolish and I'm sure some bums are foolish and others are having a hard time. Vagrant doesn't sound any nicer. Homeless is too presumptuous. Beggar sounds like the wrong word. Tramps sounds like some hooker (I'm sorry prostitute/call girl/whatever!) looking for business.

Why do people have to be so P.C. and so sensitive about words. They're just words. Vagrant sounds just as bad to me. In my opinion being a bum or a vagrant (like that sounds any better) is a choice.

My choice is not to reward that behavior. When I donate money it is to organizations that will help these people get the help they need/want. I don't believe in giving another handout to get them through the day. That isn't helping somebody (just my 2 cents). I'm sure I'll get tons of nasty comments for this but whatever!
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 09:59 PM
Shalasbeads - you sound lovely. You can say these things and express them brilliantly because you've obviously been through hard times yourself and also lost a friend.

Monica, I don't think anyone was having a go at you (I certainly wasn't), but certain words do bring up certain negative conotations - don't you think? If I started cussing or using filthy language - those words would hold power. I'm sure you know what I mean, there's a lot of power behind words. The term bum stems from bumming, bumming of the system/state - when some of these people have no choice and are desperate. Maybe you don't think vagrant is a nicer word - that's your choice.

I agree with you about the world going PC crazy with certain things. We're all just expressing our opinions on the question you raised though.

I for one wouldn't choose to live on the street and beg people for money or food, and I doubt you would either. Who would want to choose that lifestyle and why? They certainly don't get enough money to lead a happy life.

People are forced into it through circumstance (most of the time.) One of my closest friends was living on the street when she was 13 years old. She was being physically abused by her mother, who was an alcoholic, and sexually abused by her step-father (also an alcoholic.) She couldn't stand the constant abuse and so had to leave for her sanity. She got in with a gang and an older member got her hooked on Heroin. She was on the streets for about three years.
She got herself off the street, into rehab and went to University because one person decided he wouldn't stop believing in her. He supported her. Then more ppl did. Hundreds of them all played a part in her recovery. If people hadn't helped her she would be dead now. Instead, she now works with the homeless and with children - she gives back and is now helping ppl who were in her situation. She never chose to live on the streets, she had no choice. And she fought to get her life back and get off drugs through terrible mental illness and things which still haunt her to this day.

There are hundreds of different stories like this - it doesn't matter the age, or sex of the person. In the current financial climate, ppl really are in desperate need of help. I noticed when I lived in the states there were a lot of ppl begging simply for food - or saying they'd work for food for their family. I find that tragic.

Someone said a saying here, and my Grandmother says it too "there but for the grace of God go I." You could easily have been born into one of these situations, something could still happen to put you in a situation where you are homeless (I pray it doesn't.) If you could try to put yourself in these people's situations, it might help give you a different perspective on them.

There are lots of great books and films on the subject, just to show that it's not always a choice. Have you seen 'Slumdog Millionaire' - that's a great film showing how these things happen to innocent ppl. In fact, I'd say 99% of the time choice doesn't come into the matter at all.

I'm just sharing a story with you here and I hope you don't take offence by it - none is intended. Why do you think that it's a choice to be a bum though? I'm guessing you have a reason to believe this.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 10:04 PM
Monica, i am not being PC. I just don't like the word bum for these people because it could easily be me and i would hate to know people were calling me a bum. So it's actually me being selfish saying i don't like that word.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 10:43 PM
Everyone was raised with certain words in their language that was handed down by parents, teachers, society, that is common is their local area. The word bum means different things to different societies/countries. The word vagrant, bum, tramp all mean the same thing in this context and is defined in dictionaries as "an idle person who wanders from place to place, has no permanent home and no livelihood."

My point is, it does not matter what we call them -- we each call them by the word that feels right to us. It does not mean that any one of us is wrong or that we are being "PC". The original question was "would you give money to (one of these people who wander around, idle, with no permanent home and no livelihood?")

I would not give money, as I stated earlier, but I would give food or clothing. I do not like to donate my unneeded clothing to stores that turn around and charge needy people too much for it. Extra jackets, hats, etc. I would much rather give to someone who needs them but has no money.

Shala, as Jilly and Steve say: you are a kind and lovely person. I think we can all learn from you in regards to this subject.



Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/02/11 11:15 PM
Phyllis, that is probably true about where we grew up and the word used. In New York where I grew up, the word "bum" was particularly used as an insult. Fathers would call their sons a 'bum,' for example, when feeling esp vicious.

For me the words tramp, hobo or vagrant have no charge behind them. In fact, hobo and tramp have romantic adventure connotations.

Vagrant, to me, is the word with the least amount of any sort of emotion attached to it.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 01:08 AM
Jilly, I tend to agree with you on using the term vagrant. It does have the least amount of negativity to it.

Hmmm...my Dad often called my brothers "You no good bum! Get off your lazy butt and do your chores!"

Hobo to me is a romantic and nostalgic term from the past. I remember all the kids in the neighborhood running and hiding if someone shouted "Hobo!!!" Our parents and grandparents put a fear in us about hobos and tramps. laugh
Posted By: Dawn - Alaska Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 01:25 AM
Here in Austin, Tx, the issue is very prominent. I think because of the year round temps here. I tend to give bottled water, in the summer...it is 110 this week! Near the holidays is tough. I gave $20 to a lady who was on crutches, her husband in a wheelchair with both legs amputated! I rarely have cash on me, but I was holiday shopping that day.
I did get preturbed one day when a man stood at the intersection, yelling at a few of us at the light..."this could be you one day (@&^$^@W"."
I thought about it and while I feel anyone can have a rough spot, life is full of them, if you can think your way into it, you can think your way out of it.
Posted By: Maria - Prime Time TV Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 01:30 AM
I would like to say that I routinely give to money and time to charity (including weekly payroll deductions, soup kitchen volunteering, etc) however I don't usually give to people I see on the streets. A lot of the comments here have really given me a few great ideas that I would like to start doing. I especially like the ones about keeping extra jackets and fruit and granola bars.

That's one of the wonderful things about this forum. We come from all walks of life and have so many great things that we can share with each other.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 02:29 AM
I agree about all the shared ideas, Maria!

I've also given out free bags of clothes. Even if all the stuff does not fit, they can pass them among their friends, or even stuff soft things into a cloth for use as a pillow, or to have around in place of towels or whatever.

In some countries ANY form of textile is worth gold. There are ragpickers who make a living finding cloth in trash heaps. I remind myself of these things before i throw anything away. smile

ps- Dawn, that is very nice of you to give out water.
I've done more and more Soul searching on this, which is why I really like this topic.

I used to just pull out whatever I had and unconditionally give maybe 25% or sometimes all of it, if i was headed home.

When I was on the road, though, sometimes you'd have to wait a day or two to get your next trucking assignment or you'd be in that same area for a month or so and we'd end up seeing the same people asking us for money but they wouldn't remember us. By days end, they'd pull out a wad of money, walk down the road, get in their car or head into apartments near by. It was just interesting.

They'd get $1-5.00 at the intersections, every few cars or so and they'd be asking for gas money over and over again, at the rest and truck stops. They actually made more money than we did and it was tax-free.

But people who truly are down on their luck, it doesn't bother me if they take the money I have and buy beer, hotdogs, cigarettes, twizzlers, whatever, etc. It's a gift and like Jilly said, it could be anyone of us some day. You just don't know. If it were, would judgement really help?

I always tell myself, no one starts out life with hopes and dreams of having to find a warm bed to sleep in, rumaging for food. Sometimes a decision or event (s) take place and it's just too much for a Soul to take. Maybe it's then that expectations seem more like a luxury item than anything else.
When I lived in Portland, Sisters of the Road Cafe sold meal tickets and I'd give out those if people wanted them. (In my first full-time job I worked nearby and my coworkers ate there when money was tight, I only didn't as I found the rice and peanut sauce at the bento place more filling for the same price. You can also work for a meal there.) If people ask for food and I have my lunch with me, I'll offer them half. When I get samples of dog food or have dog stuff I can't use anymore (for instance, my dog changed vitamins due to a change in her health), I give them to people living rough (as it is usually called here) who have dogs. (And I often pass out tennis balls as I usually have one in my car.) I rarely give money directly (maybe once a year) and always to people who are part of my route/neighborhood where I know the story.

For a while I was counting the number of times people asked me for change or I saw someone with a sign and at the end of the month I'd add $.25 to my Kiva account for each one. I'm not doing that anymore, but the money is still rotating through Kiva.

Julie
Posted By: ExerciseEditor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 10:53 AM
Everybody posted such awesome comments and I wish I could reply to all. Phyllis your stories were great and since the original post was about something that happened to my boyfriend, I mentioned your comments to him and he thought your story about hobos was very funny. His exact words were "a kid in one of those vagabond sacks!" He's Aussie so in his language hobo=vagabond and to him vagrant=criminal (which is my feeling too).

I actually looked up all these words for fun and the definition for hobo was "an itinerant worker, a career which sprang up during the depression. A hobo, unlike a bum or a tramp, is more than willing to work, but mostly for a short duration, as their main impetus is travel, the love of the journey above the actual destination." I thought this was very interesting. I remember saying to my parents that I would run off and be a hobo if they didn't back off one time. I got smacked for that (LOL).

I actually love the word Bum and find it's a harmless word. Burgess Meredith calls Rocky a bum (he had a home and a job just the wrong mindset). In an Animaniacs parody of Rocky, the coach pigeon calls the boxer pigeon a bumsicle which is even funnier because it means "A person who is so lathargic they never move and steadily gain mass as they develop into a large lazy lardass i.e. Ryan is such a bumsicle, he stays in bed all day, plays Pokemon on his DS and constantly orders delivery." This is from urban dictionary.

Ski Bum
Beach Bum
Bum a cigarrete
Bumming Around (Dean Martin song)
Bumming around the house (what my rich clients do all weekend)
The Dharma Bums (amazing book by Jack Kerouac)
B.U.M. Equipment (popular brand of clothing from the 80's)
None of these sound negative to me.


Vagrancy on the other hand has a very negative connotation "In colonial America, if a person wandered into a town and did not find work, he/she was told to leave town or be prosecuted. In the U.S., vagrancy laws were vague and covered a wide range of activities and crimes associated with vagrants, such as loitering, prostitution, drunkenness, and associating with known criminals. Under the vagrancy laws, police arrested people who were suspected of crime, but who had not committed a crime. Eventually, punishments were changed to a fine, or several months in jail.

After the U.S. Civil War, the South passed Black Codes, laws that tried to control freed black slaves. Vagrancy laws were included in these codes. Homeless unemployed black Americans were arrested and fined as vagrants. Usually, the person could not afford the fine, and so was sent to county labor or hired out to a private employer.

In the U.S. of the 1960s, vagrancy laws were found to be too broad and vague, and in violation of the due process requirements of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as citizens were not informed of which behaviors were illegal. Police had too much power in deciding whether or not to arrest someone. Vagrancy laws could no longer violate Freedom of Speech, such as when police use them against political demonstrators and unpopular groups. U.S. vagrancy laws became clearer, narrower, and more defined. Since then, the status of being a vagrant is punished by the vagrancy laws, while other actions are punished under other laws."


It was Dawn who said exactly what I was thinking which is
Quote:
if you can think your way into it, you can think your way out of it.


I strongly believe in law of attraction and also my parents (who both grew up in Mexico) instilled the belief that if you end up on the streets it's by choice. There are many options when life gets hard. Living on the streets is only one option. There are many others.

I don't know who said it but the belief that "this can happen to any of us" is just not a belief I have. I don't have it period. I believe that our thoughts/beliefs create our reality. If you believe you can end up on the streets then that is quite possible. If not then it is impossible. That is the basic idea behind law of attraction and I strongly believe that you attract what you believe.





Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 11:29 AM
Monica, I am happy to know your boyfriend enjoyed my story. My siblings and I talk about our childhood when we get together and the story of the hobos and tramps always come up. We can so remember Grandma standing on the back porch, shaking her finger at us, and telling us to "stay clear of the railroad and watch out for hobos."

My goodness -- we now have a lot of different names for the people who wander and beg. I think we should as a group come up with a whole new term for these unfortunate people. Since they do not own anything that needs monthly payments and they have no responsibilities to worry about, I think the word "carefree" would be nice. laugh "Unfortunates"?

What does anyone else think we should call them? Since Steve says to him "bum" means what they sit on, I think I will never call a person a bum again. smile
Posted By: ExerciseEditor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 11:52 AM
You can call me a bum any time ; )

I would love to be a beach bum at some point in my life. I actually googled it in my searches and found tons of articles for people who actually want to live that lifestyle.

I know a guy who's a workout beach bum. He travels to exotic places and makes money endorsing fitness products. I can't think of a better way to spend your life than doing what he does. Check out his amazing Amalfi Italy Circuit Workout to see what I mean.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 12:30 PM
Must be nice! I remember when I was a teenager a Beach Bum meant living an exotic life.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 07:43 PM
It was me who said it could be me on those streets. Monica, I have a mental illness that gets in the way of many 'normal life' things. If not for the constant support from my parents, I'd probably be living in The Slabs in my RV with no services and no money. As it is I am on Medicare and applying for food stamps.

So when i say it could be me, I am not just blowing smoke up someone's arse. I am not being oovy-groovy touchy-feely. This is real time life.

You and I are often diametrically opposed on many life issues. I am sure you have noticed that.
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 07:55 PM
I have always believed that any one of us could be on the streets if not for help from others who cared. Sometimes, it is not a "choice" as to where we are in life. We may disagree on this point, but it is what I believe. For the same reasons Jilly states, I could very well be on the streets with nothing if not for others who cared and gave help when I needed it.

Some people are fortunate and have been able to fight for what they want in life and get what they need -- some of us have crashed to the bottom of the pit and could not have found our way up without someone there to help us. I know I never chose to hit bottom and I am sure Jilly has not either.

This is life. It happens.
Posted By: Lori - Marriage Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 08:39 PM
I'm with Linda-Islam editor and Phyllis on this one. I give freely as I have received from God. No questions, no strings, no judgments. So if the person chooses to buy alcohol with that money? At least he is given the opportunity to choose for himself if he will drink to dull his pain or to eat to nourish his body. Every moment is a chance for him to make a better choice.

If someone is obviously taking advantage of me? I forgive him and move on. We don't need more ill feelings in the world.

We all have made errors in judgment and have made poor choices. We just don't see them as clearly as we see those of others. And may I add that some things aren't always as they seem. On a spiritual level, some of these "bums" are serving a higher cause. How? By testing the compassion, tolerance and charity of people, for one.

Most of these people don't need our pity. They need our gratitude and understanding.

It is a false belief to think that our money is our money.
Posted By: AnneE Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 08:59 PM
To me the word bum has a very negative connotation, as in someone screaming, "You are a bum, a lazy, no-good bum!"

To go back to the original question, it depends on my circumstances. I have heard that it is much better to provide food if you can, rather than cash. But that is not always convenient.

I would rather have occasionally lined the pocket of someone who didn't need the money, than occasionally have turned away someone who was truly desperate for help. So if in doubt and if I have the money, I'll give a few dollars.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 09:51 PM
Anne, your quote is exactly what i hear in my mind when i hear someone call another a bum.

If there is no word that has no charge for anyone, then we do have a problem with semantics. I never connoted vagrant with criminal, but i can see Monica, and others, where you might have that POV.

Lisa suggested Beggar as a term. ??
Posted By: Phyllis Doyle Burns Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 09:55 PM
I think 'beggar' is appropriate.
Posted By: Linda19 Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 11:06 PM
Me too Phyllis, it describes what they are doing without being derogatory. It is was it is, begging, asking for help, for whatever reason.

A 'bum' in English slang means a bottom, a derriere, a backside. In which some people put implants to make them bigger. And some people wish they had smaller.
Posted By: missyT Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/03/11 11:15 PM
I also don't like the term "bum" but yes my husband and I always give something food, hand warmers money. I agree with the poster above that I'd rather risk giving a few dollars to someone that may not need it than leave someone to starve. I only wish i could do more. while vacationing last year I brought a young homeless man lunch from whole foods. He was so appreciative!
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 07:09 PM
I used the English Oxford Dictionary to look up the word Vagrant. Seen as we are speaking English and it's the most reliable for our language, and our current day use of it in this decade.

Vagrant
noun

a person without a settled home or regular work who wanders from place to place and lives by begging.

archaic a wanderer.

Ornithologya bird that has strayed or been blown from its usual range or migratory route. Also called accidental


adjective
[attributive]
relating to or living the life of a vagrant:vagrant beggars

moving from place to place; wandering:vagrant whales

literary moving or behaving unpredictably; inconstant:the vagrant heart of my mother

I also looked up "bum"

DEFINITION OF "BUM"
1 a vagrant.

a lazy or worthless person:you ungrateful bum


2 [in combination] a person who devotes a great deal of time to a specified activity:a ski buma poker bum


verb (bums, bumming, bummed)

1 [no object] travel, with no particular purpose or destination:he bummed around Florida for a few months

pass one's time idly:we spent most of the summer just bumming around

2 [with object] get by asking or begging:they tried to bum money off us

3 [with object] make (someone) feel upset or disappointed:it really bummed me out when he forgot my birthday

adjective
[attributive]
of poor quality; bad or wrong:not one bum note was played


THIS IS FROM OUR CURRENT ENGLISH DICTIONARY
I think it makes things much clearer in which is a nice term for a homeless person and one which isn't. Certainly no history lesson there - and seen as we're living in 2011, I think it should matter what the words mean currently.

I don't think I'll even go into the talk about making your own luck etc. I find it very, very misguided personally. Though I really wish it were true.

Thanks for your breakdown of the words Steven, must admit to me �Bum� when put together with someone who is �down on his luck�, does not sit very well. Although something like �beach bum, ski bum� and similar descriptions are OK because those folk are in charge of their situation, in some ways it even seems to be like a fun badge they wear with pride.

In Germany Obdachlos is used meaning Homeless, and also Landstreicher � which literally translated is someone who strides across the land.

Am sure there must be a Pejorative term in German, but don�t think I have ever heard it and no one I have asked knows either. Or if they do they are not telling me.

Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 07:52 PM
Francine, I agree - a beach bum, by definition alone obviously has a lot of money - otherwise they couldn't hang out at the beach all day LOL. Same goes even more so for Ski bum. They must be loaded smile

I think there are probably a thousand different words to describe different things smile with so many languages.

I just felt it was important, because of what's been discussed, that we get the correct definition from the current English Dictionary.

I love your avatar of the Disney castle BTW smile



Posted By: Dianne W - Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 08:14 PM
Steven, You are amazing...thank you.

Francine, I LOVE your avatar. I'm so excited I am going back to Disney next week on vacation. 2nd time this year, I love Disney World!!!
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 08:57 PM
LOL, Thanks Dianne smile Hope you have a great time in Disney!
Posted By: msbaby Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 10:51 PM
Does my first boyfriend count, although I didn't know he was a BUM at the time. :-)

But seriously, I don't give money to panhandlers (that's what we call vagrants who live on the streets and approach passersby for money around here.

The authorities frown on it because if word gets around that people are generous their numbers begin to multiply and tourists start to avoid our town and in this economy nobody wants that.

I make donations to the local soup kitchen and food bank instead which is more likely to actually help rather than give the means to do even more harm to themselves with alcohol and/or drugs.
Posted By: ExerciseEditor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/06/11 11:19 PM
That is the funniest thing I've read so far!!! Both my exes were bums too and I didn't know it at the time. Neither one could hold down a job and it was by choice not because they were not able to do it.

That's awesome that you donate to soup kitchens and food banks instead. That's what we do.
Posted By: Horror_Movies_Editor Re: Do you give money to bums? - 08/07/11 07:33 PM
My friend works with the homeless, aparently the idea that people "choose" to be homeless is one of the biggest myths which they find hinders their work. A homeless person may even think it's their choice, most will say it out of pride - I find that really sad. They find their world easier to deal with if they think their fate somehow lies in their hands.

It's great that so many people here give to the homeless though - it shows that we all really believe in their cause and need for support and help.

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