I've read that some people think that spells or incantations existed before prayer. Do you agree with this idea or do you think that prayers came first?

Rather than just calling them prayers though, It might also be appropriate to call them 'incantations'.....

Ack, I am limited on space in the subject line and chose smaller words.

Oh yeh, no problem...but I think 'prayer' may seem a narrow concept in some minds, with regard to a specific deity, that kind of thing, that's all I meant......but I completely take your point.

i just accidently locked this topic. I'm sorry if anyone tried to participate and they could not. I have my monitor screen almost black with light colored text because it reduces the energy used by a large amount if it is black instead of white. I guess I still have some things to figure out because when I look at my little drop down menus, I can't read them very well because they are black too. so, oops, sorry.

Yeah, these all can be touchy subjects. Sometimes I think in these times that seem so unspiritual for many people that it can be useful to jog the mind in this general direction for some or any consideration.

Can anyone explain spells?

A spell is a group of words spoken that are intended to have an effect of some kind as opposed to prayer which is meant to mean communication with one's supreme entity or entities. Spell is used at this time interchangeably with incantation. If you have a word you prefer to use than spell, that's okay too.

I'm thinking maybe in the minds of the Ancients
'spells' and 'prayer' were the same thing....by that I mean, our ancestors spoke to a Superior Being...whether to ask for a good growing season; good harvest...healthy children...whatever they needed. I wonder if, as thinking and reasoning evolved, so did the 'labels' of their conversations with their Deity? Did I say that right? Do you know what I mean? For instance.....when I pray, I offer Tobacco to the four Directions, to the Star Nations/Grandfather Sky, Grandmother and Creator, and I offer recognition to Their powers, etc. Then the Tobacco is scattered or burned. To some that might be considered an incantation.....to me, that's giving offering and respect before asking that my prayers be heard. It's all a mystery, isn't it? Sometimes wonderful.....sometimes maddening.

I said spells, but it doesn't matter to me b/c I view them both as achieving the same ends.

I agree they are basically the same. One might say my Wiccan friend is casting a "spell." I view it as his evoking a higher being to assist him, which is exactly the same as my "praying" to Grandfather the Creator. I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church. When I attended a Catholic Mass is certainly seemed like "incantations" to me. It's all about your perspective.

Which came first - spells or prayers is a bit like the chicken/egg quandary.

I said prayer because I figure people learned to talk and other wise communicate before they thought about magical properties or object, animals and plants...