Holly has talked about robbins saying that we get motivated by either-
Going away from pain or pleasure?

I get motivated by going away from pain. Pleasure is OK for me but running away from pain makes me do many things. How about others?

That is a hard one for me to answer. Physical pain cripples me and keeps me down, both physically and emotionally.

Emotional and mental pain does motivate me in the sense that it pushes me to overcome it.

Pleasure is something I try to hold on to - but it is impermanent.

I have always experienced more pain than pleasure in my life, so I guess I'd have to say that pain has been the major 'moving' force in my life. The constant desire to escape from the pain; to overcome it and to 'get out of the torture chamber' so to speak.

The continual 'getting up again' and striving on.

Also, I wonder if we can appreciate pleasure if we don't know pain?

Kerryanne.

Pleasure is impermantent in the sense it is not static... it is moving and must be renewed.

Pain sometimes seems permanent... but i wonder if it is not impermanent as well... i'm not speaking of physical pain but mental and emotional. I wonder if we might be renewing it. It is sort of a radical idea, but not without some reasoning. Dr. Burns, the author of Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy is a cognitive psychologist. He has done much research on the subject of depression along with other psychologists, psychiatrists and doctors. He hypothesized (sorry... i've noticed my spelling lately has deteriorated... not sure why)... he hypothesized that the habit of certain thoughts which he calls "cognitive distortions" will lead to and maintain depression. He defined ten distortions... including things like "all or nothing thinking" and "fortune telling" and "mind reading" and "catastrophizing." He and others of his research team set up clinical studies where they trained a group to practice changing these habitual thoughts away from distortions. The results were quite dramatic and outperformed drugs for depression. I highly recommend his books... you will learn a lot, as i did. I know that psychologists often recommend Feeling Good to their patients, too (as happened to a friend of mine), so it is a book well respected by professionals. There are many copies in print, so you will probably find it at your library, but try to seek a recent edition, because as research has continued they have updated the book.

...sorry... forgot the link:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

To some degree i get motivated by both, however i am much better motivated by experiencing pleasure. I will move towards pleasure like a plant will bend towards light. If i have pleasure, i will want more. But if i am not currently experiencing it... sometimes it seems remote and i might doubt i can attain it.

Most people will move away from pain, but i will not always move away from a painful state... sometimes i will just shut down and get stuck in it, so for me, pain is like glue or molassas. It can hinder me, rather than motivate me.

I get motivated by people who believe in me, and tell me that I have all that it takes to be successful in life. So I guess I'm motivated by pleasure, and by being encouraged.

Pain only depresses me I'm afraid.

AF.

I think we are confusing now.

You said that you are a carrot donkey. So now rather than going back to that , let us find out how this helps you. Have you begun visualizing in terms of pleasure?

If you are looking for earning money, what would motivate you?
The pleasure that comes with more money or the pain you will face with less money?

I have, and will continue. But it is not quite simple, for visualizing positively and feeling hope these days can often trigger in me a lot of insecurity and the return of memories of loss and pain. I hope this kind of reaction will wear off the more i practice visualization and hope, but at present i am proceding carefully. A couple of weeks ago i hit a rough spot, and it was because of reacting to having more hope. When i hope i fear i might encounter the same kind of loss i had the last time i had much to hope for. This is what i was trying to explain.

i will continue with visualization... but hoping for a carrot does not mean i will have a carrot. Tasting a little carrot, works even better.

So how this knowledge helps me... I am working on improving my enjoyment of the activities that will help me to be more successful. This isn't so much visualization as a matter of shifting my focus and attitudes and enjoying what i need to do, and doing more of what i enjoy. The stick... in being healthy, for instance... might be looking in a mirror and feeling unattractive and criticizing myself. This doesn't work well to motivate me, it just dispirits me. The carrot... would be trying to improve my enjoyment of the actual exercise... perhaps by adding music or just thinking how it makes my body feel good and stronger... and perhaps buying a new outfit when i have reached a goal of say, exercising for a month.

I have also learned to be more careful to limit my exposure to people who use sticks more often than carrots. This has helped.

What about you, Pratibha? AF? Everyone? How can you work more carrots into your life and fewer sticks?

I would be in trouble without motivation to earn!

I'm fortunate in that I don't have a problem in that area. I have a well paid job, though I wouldn't mind a change!

I need more motivation on a personal level.

AF.

I keep thinking of sharing bed with somebody great. Sometimes the visuals become so strong!

I hope you all get me.

Same with money.
My thoughts are becoming stronger now.

chuckle. Nice thoughts.

That would help me too... it sounds so simple, but i had missed the obvious and was visualizing in a much more complicated way.

I am glad you are feeling stronger. You are strong... always were. You just had not always known you possess strength.

Motivation for what things, AF? What would you like to be doing?

"Motivation for what things, AF? What would you like to be doing?"

Well Holly, I'd like to get a job with children. I've taught painting privately, but would like to do it on a professional level. But I guess I'd have to do a course in teaching to do that in a school. Perhaps I should go back to college and get some more qualifications. Being a receptionist/secretary for a doctor is good, but it would be nice to have a change.

On a personal level, I'd like to improve my self esteem and self confidence. I think getting more qualifications might help me to attain that.

AF.

I've recently experienced something of a bomb blast in my life.
(Some would call it a 'rude awakening'!)

I have had to face up to, and accept a few home truths about myself and it hasn't been easy. It's rather sad when you get to 68 before you attain real insight into your problems.

The consolation is in knowing I couldn't have changed the situation because I was possibly born with this impediment, or it may have been the result of physical abuse. (It was possibly caused by some problem in my brain, which showed irregularities in one area in a recent scan) but it has wrought havoc in my inter-personal relationships.

This is certainly an example of how we can grow through pain and misfortune. Now I have to start!!!

It means looking at my life, past, present and future, in a different light, and from a different angle. I also have to learn not to be resentful of what this condition has caused in my life.

So I am concentrating on what pleasures I knew, and can create for myself now. I also have to be careful not to make the same mistakes and avoid the situations which will surely bring more pain.

I have always tried to live within my limitations, - I just didn't know about this recently diagnosed one.

It is rather embarrassing and humiliating, and I've yet to find a way of coping with that.

Soldiering on!

Kerryanne.

Pratibha is enjoying all visualization!

Are you thinking of change for the sake of change?

"Buddhism proposes a non-dual ethic capable of understanding the good as bad and the bad as good. Psychoanalitically speaking, desire can be good for mental health and morality bad as well as viceversa. In addition, according to Zen, the equally necessary capacity to discern (not judge) and choose between good and bad arises from, and is a product of, not of modern reason or traditional morality but of an intuitive understanding of the Real of non-duality. Such intuition of non-duality is also distinguished from the imaginary intuition associated with the superstitious mentality opposed by modern science. For Mahayana Buddhism, Samsara (pleasure/suffering or jouissance) is Nirvana (serene illumination regarding the being/non-being of things and phenomena) and Nirvana is Samsara. Nirvana is right there within the world of pleasure and pain (Samsara); and Nirvana, as a first principle and the non-dual source of dual pleasure and pain, manifests not as a search or avoidance of pleasure/pain but as an equanimous love within pleasure and pain and as an intuitive knowing regarding the causes and conditions of Samsara. Meditation or zazen is the natural trance which is not an altered state of consciousness (as in the drug experience), but the simple, beautiful and aweful way that things work or go, suchness, the way life is, just like that or just as it is."

Just keeping to topic.
This is not from me, but is a quotation from a Buddhist website. Just to clarify.

more can be found here:

If you find out what all goes in my mind, you will go crazy. Oh, how I am looking for someone!

I think that is a great plan: to teach art professionally! And now would be a good time to make the switch. Because of teacher shortages, there are better scholarships and excellerated programs to help people get into the field of teaching more easily. They've even offered better scheduling, to suit those who are working. I had a neighbor who is an artist, and when she got divorced, she when back to college to qualify (and she's in her mid 50's at least). Grants and loans covered all her expenses, and even though she was in a three year program, they have changed the laws in this state and she could begin teaching after one year of school, so long as she remains enrolled to finish her degree. She is now teaching art in public schools.

I've decided to go back to college, and to get used to it (so it isn't so scary)... i thought i'd start with just one course this fall. How about you? Could you sign up for one class this fall? Community Colleges are pretty cheap to get started, and you could begin with one class before applying to a college formally.

I think more qualifications will help you feel more self esteem, but i remember how some women, even though too thin, think themselves fat. Our view of ourselves can be distorted, so i think we also have to work on how we view ourselves. I'm using the visualization to help me with confidence. If i have something i need to do and i feel nervous about it, i will visualize myself doing it confidently and not feeling self-conscious.

I also thought of something to do with self-esteem, but i've been forgetting to do it, and you just reminded me. The "thinking of three things to look forward to" each day worked so well for me to improve my happiness, that i thought i could use something like that for self esteem. The plan was to at the end of the day, think of 3 ways i am a valuable person, or 3 things about myself to feel good about. Should i start another thread and we can give it a try? I think if you and others would do it with me, i'd be more likely to do it. I will do that. Look for "The Swelled Head" thread. Or should we call it something else? ...i think i'll wait until i hear suggestions from people for the name of the thread.

I don't think any of us is safe from insight and self-discovery as long as we live... at least, i hope not!

I know you may be feeling disappointment in whatever this discovery was, but really, I think you have cause to celebrate. After all, this condition existed even when you didn't know about it, right? But now you do, and that gives you a new tool, one you can use.

I remember some interesting reading about two doctors... who quite independently... discovered some interesting aspects about trauma and the brain. People who've experienced trauma (particularly those who experienced child abuse) and who also have PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder), have a smaller hypocampus and another part of the brain.... sorry i don't remember at the moment the other part of the brain mentioned. Anyway, following trauma, these parts of the brain actually shrink! One of the doctors claimed he could determine with 99% accuracy (there was a study of which i do not know the details)... whether or not a person experienced heavy trauma and had ptsd, by looking at a cat-scan of their brain. But here's the part i especially want you to know!... they did follow-ups on these people, and found that as they healed from their experiences, these parts of the brain returned to normal size!!!!!

There are also many stories of people with various damage to their brains and how they have healed or found ways of compensating. I have two friends who lost all their memories at one point. One of them had a chemical accident at work, and lost her ability for short term memory. She used to use notepads to store her short term memories. She has shown some improvement over the years. The other friend had brain annurisms and lost all his long and short term memory for a while, but fortunately he had excellent physical therapy for recovery, and now his memory is better than anyone i know. I think you should investigate and see what is out there. Now that you know, you may be able to find out how others have dealt with similar issues.

The old school of medicine believed that the brain was not resillient. They thought for example, that once you lose brain cells they cannot be replaced. Now they have clear evidence that this is blatantly not true. The brain is an amazing thing and is capable of far more than we understand.

I think this news presents you with many opportunities that you did not previously, have. I would ask yourself questions like these until you have many answers for them:

What advantages do i have now in knowing this?

How can this knowlege benefit me and help me to improve?

How about that it gives you a greater basis for forgiving yourself? Or how about understanding some of your behavior? Or how about being able to communicate better what you experience and why? That could improve relationships, couldn't it?

It also never hurts to ask,

What's funny in all this?

Sometimes finding something funny in it, helps us to live with it and go with the flow.

I really do think this is a good thing that you discovered... i'm not just saying it to try to make you feel good.

Holly, you have given me the 'get up and go' to do something about this! I will find out what I might be able to sign up for which would provide me with the ticket I need to teach art in schools.

WOW! That gives me so much to look forward to!

Good luck to you too in your plans to go forward.

The sky is the limit! (and that really isn't the limit anymore either now!)

AF.

Yes Holly, that's very true. It explains a lot, and though it is not a 'happy' thing to know, it at least gives me the opportunity to be aware, and to act accordingly. I always prefer to know the truth, no matter how much it might hurt or embarrass me.



I also read about this. I could be wrong, but I think it is something which needs to be addressed in early years (young adulthood) for notable changes to take place.

I spoke to the doctor about it, but she wasn't certain whether this indication of early (infant) brain injury was the sole cause of the problem, especially since my mother seemed to have the same condition - so it could be hereditary. It also could have connections with the DID/MPD. She seemed to think that if the injury was going to heal itself, it would have done so long before this. (It's had over 68 years since the injury occurred.)

But I'm not worried about that at this point in my life. I'm just sorry that there wasn't the knowledge years ago to address such a problem, and that the action that caused it was also unknown. Anyone who did know did not speak up. People felt it was none of their business in those days.

The part affected is the area which has a lot to do with emotional development.

I find it oh, so humiliating that I, who am blessed with what is defined as 'superior' intelligence in most areas, should be at the opposite end of the scale emotionally.

It explains why, all my life, I have been 'emotionally immature'. The doctor said I was probably always several years behind - for example, being emotionally 5 at the age of 10, until reaching the emotional age of 16 and then stopped for some reason. ( I have been repeatedly told by different people that I was "20, 30, 40, 50, 60 going on 16"!!) So I have no idea at what chronological age I reached the emotional age of 16. My guess is that it was in my 20's. Why it stopped there, I have no idea, unless it was perhaps hereditary or related to ongoing emotional abuse.



Yes indeed. It gives me quite a few advantages now in knowing this. I now understand many things which have hurt and puzzled me for scores of years. I know now why people turn away from me when they get to know me well. I can understand why.

I also know it isn't my fault.

You can get away with it when you are young. But it appears to others as rather annoying and even disgusting when you are over 50, and over 60 - and have the emotional needs and responses of a 16 year old child wanting to be mothered!

You can see it, can't you? People look at me, listen to me, and they see a brilliant mind and a person with talents of a very high order. They are attracted, and drawn to this person who seems so wise, and someone to 'look up to' - but when they get close, they see something else which they cannot understand or accept. They feel cheated. They either run away, or they abuse me.

People tend to attack what they don't understand. And of course I didn't understand either, and got hurt so many times by what I saw as betrayal and unfair criticism and being ostracized and ridiculed for something which I could not change or understand.

I became something of a recluse, thinking it was the DID/MPD which was the cause (which it often was of course)- when most of the time it was this 'other' thing in my brain.

I am still reeling from this revelation, but as I said, at least I now understand.

The CT scan was done during my recent illness, to detect any signs of clots on the brain. That's when they found this early injury, possibly dating back to infancy. (probably from shaking) (A bit like how no one knew about my broken nose until I was over 40!)

I can see the funny side of it all. I even laughed about how I now know why I get on so well with teenagers! I can relate to them and what they feel because I am still a teenager at heart (emotionally anyway!) myself!

I have to learn to employ my mind more frequently, and not show my emotions if I plan to keep friends in the future.

And at almost 69, it's really time I stopped looking for a mother to love me!!!

If I didn't laugh at all this, I'd cry!!!

With hugs,

Kerryanne.

Would somebody just be considerate enough to permit me to know whether I am being ignored here, and if so, why, exactly?

If this is so, I shall act accordingly.

Thank you all.

I think that now is the time to begin action along with all talk of finding solutions.

Holly, AF and others.
Let us plan our future and begin action.

Ah. I will take this as a yes, then.
Although I am still not understanding why.

But it is all very amusing.
And somewhat revealing.

Just what "action" are you proposing then?

You can never completely abandon one for the other, because they are the dual sides of the same coin.
Only by recognising the constrictive, restrictive and addictive elements altogether, and rising above both pleasure and pain, can you conquer the two illusions.

But it seems that nobody here wishes to confront these issues and meet the discomfort head on.
Why is that, I wonder?
why are you all so apparently addicted to the comfort zone of your own platitudes, that you fail or refuse to consider the alternatives? Pain and discomfort are necessary pre-requisites to healing.

More silence, no doubt.

You are all so funny.
In fact it might be hilarious if it was not so predictable and sad.

KerryAnne - I see no reason for you to feel humiliated. Each of us has flaws in one way or another. Should we all be humiliated? It just gives us character! I have more "character" than most, i oughta know!!! hahahaha. If you have more "character" too... GOOD! We'll have character together. The world needs different people.

Also, many of us never lose the desire to be mothered, and we can't claim brain injury as the cause! I've known some people to be immature their whole life... and trust me, they have no excuse. I think you are being awfully hard on yourself.

This knowledge from the catscan may help you find ways to cope, but i really, really, [b]REALLY!,[b] would not take it as reason why you can't do something unexpected. I've known far too many examples of people who did the impossible. It is only impossible until someone proves it wrong, and this happens often in life! And just like they did not know this about your brain when you were little, there are things they don't know today about correcting issues or what the catscan means in the first place. You may be the first... the one!.... to prove a statement patently wrong. This is how people without toes who were once told they would never walk were able to run a four minute mile and win world class races! This is how Helen Keller became one of the best minds and inspirational speaker ever, after starting her life with people treating her like a dumb animal and flatly writing her off. If you look around, there are literally tens of thousands of people who have done the impossible, and they are certainly no better than you. Don't ever accept a limitation like this. It is additional data, that is all. The rest is hypothesis, and hypotheses can be proved wrong.

I know it's scary sometimes to not have some explanation why you can't do something when it is indeed, extremely hard to do. You have challenges, no doubt about it. But there is a difference between being challenged and believing that you are unquestionably limited. If i were you... i would question it. Do you see what i'm getting at?

I had a close friend, J... she was legally blind and her parents were told she would never read or attend regular school. She finally, at age 9, learned to read. Even today, she can't read as fast as you or i can even speak out loud, but she reads... a lot. About two decades ago, she applied for and got in to one of the most prestigious colleges in the U.S. It was not easy for her to study, but she was determined. Sometimes before exams, we would take turns reading her textbooks to her, because it was faster than she could read them on her own. She had to put in many more hours of work at school to do what you and i are able to take for granted. But she did, and she graduated. Do you know what she did after that? She became a writer for the state of Michigan, beating out other applicants, and she did not disclose her handicap to them. Guess what department.... education! This, after being told as a child her handicap would always limit her, particularly in learning and school. Now she runs her own large company and guess what else? She passed a driving exam. She is able to drive her own car. Safely. Her eyesight never improved... it is just that she learned how to use what she had to best advantage and work around it. She learned how to manage it well and use her abilities, not her disabilities. And do you know what she told me once? She said, "Holly, other people will never understand how hard it is for you to do some simple things. But that is true of everyone... everyone has a handicap of one sort or another."

I count myself fortunate that i've known many people with large handicaps who have done what you might think impossible. They inspire me and have taught me so much. What i learned from those who succeeded despite their challenges is that they were all the same in one thing: they never made their handicap an excuse as to why they could not do something they wanted to do. What is it you would like to do, Kerryanne?

I just heard on television about a blind guy who wants to climb Mt. Everest now, and just a few years ago a guy with an artificial leg did it! And if you don't think that's impossible... think again. The guy with the artificial leg has to worry about metal parts of his artificial leg freezing to him and plastic parts shattering in the extreme cold, and the blind guy has to worry about using his pick in the wrong place on the ice and causing it to fall. When i was a kid i knew a guy who was insulin dependent who went to climb Mt. McKinley and a storm hit and his insulin froze. His home paper reported him dead... but he was not. Each of them said they did/are doing this to show others with handicaps that people with handicaps are not limitted.

Come on, Anne!!! This isn't a death sentence to your growth!!!! You are resourceful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone can find a way through this limitation it will be you. You are at least as good as these others who have accomplished things, and you have so much to offer from your heart and mind both that others find valuable. You are kind and wise and have learned so many things from your experiences. You have gifts no one else has. USE them! Experiment with what you can do. See if you can't go through the limit doctors have decreed you have. You'll discover good things this way... either that it is not a limit, or how to go around it and manage it. Whatever you learn by trying, will be good. It can be fun to try, so why not? And if you do make useful discoveries... you will not only help yourself, but you can help others who have had the same or similar problems and help spare them from frustration and pain of having to discover things themselves. Wouldn't you like to do that? Wouldn't you like to spare just one person from some of the pain you've experienced? That alone is reason to try or write a book or something.

I know sometimes i sound very ...oh i don't know... Pollianna. But i really do believe what i'm saying here, Anne. I've seen examples right in front of me and i've been playing with my own limitations again and doubting them, and i really am starting to believe that we are all capable of far more than we think.
Maybe half the limitations we think we have, aren't really there at all, they're just an illusion... a d**ned good illusion! But still, an illusion, and illusions can be dispelled. We need to find out which ones are illusions.

I care about you. Even when i am frustrated or don't understand what's going on with you. I don't care HOW old you are, by the way. I've seen my dad surprise all in his old age (he's older than you), and he's done some remarkable things in changing himself and surprised everyone.

Figure out what you would like to be doing, and we'll put our heads together and come up with some ideas for how you might do those things. Start with one, small or big, whatever you like. What would you like to do?

Hello Mettemaid,

As far as I am concerned,I am happy for you to be here.

I am sure no one meant for you to be ignored or excluded. I have experienced so much of that in my life, and would never inflict it on another.

Perhaps you might have some suggestions which would help me in my problem?

Kerryanne.

Ah, dear Holly, I don't know where to begin!

What do I want?

Well,I'd like to be able to react in an adult way, emotionally,to stress, grief and the fears that often plague me.

Often, my reactions are those of a much younger child than 16. I've never talked about this before - to anyone! - so it is rather difficult to put into words.

For example, last night one of my dogs was in pain (I took him to the vet this morning and he has sprained his cruciate ligament in his leg.) I went into an anxiety attack and all the fears which might have been found in a 5yr old child were there - as they always are when I am stressed, worried or fear loss. I was beside myself because I didn't know what was causing him to be in so much pain. I desperately wanted to talk to someone - for comfort, but there is no one.

I lose friends because I am clingy and dependant and I really do behave like a small, frightened child who fears loss or abandonment. I seem to have no control over this.

In intimate relationships, I am idealistic, like a teenager. I am not adult and it is very obvious to those concerned. I have been told that I don't want a lover. I want a mother!

Mentally, I react in a mature manner when there is trauma or strife, such as attending the injured at the scene of an accident, or taking the initiative to put out a fire if it starts. (always the one with a clear head who does what is necessary) - but in personal matters, my emotions take over from my mind and I am a mess. What is personal always brings a terribly immature response, tears, panic, fear of what the future holds, like a child orphaned and alone and terrified.
I was always afraid to be away from my parents, up until I was 18. I could not relate to males, and still fear men I do not know well. I was afraid of people my own age and became a loner very early in the piece. I never had a best friend until I was over 40, and even then she was someone 14 years my senior and I did not let her get to know me well. She only saw what I wanted her to see. She was the only close friend I ever had, and she died in 1996.

I never had a boyfriend. Never went out with a boy, and never knew what it was to have school friends.

Because as a child I spent a great deal of time 'splitting off' I had a lot of blank spots in my memory. This often drove people up the wall.

So I did not go through the normal 'mile stones' of childhood which are necessary for a child to experience in their develoment, not as a child, and not as a teen, so I did not have these as an adult. One cannot go back and experience them. If you didn't go through those stages, you miss them. No one can run before they have first learned to stand up, balance, and walk.

I have always been aware of this, but it is now that I feel the full impact of it. When I was younger, I just kept on hoping that things would get better, which of course they did not. So mentally, intellectually, I matured normally, but emotionally I was arrested in my development and none of my experiences changed that. Perhaps if I'd received help when I was still pre-adolescent, it might have changed everything. But there was no help. By the time I was 18, I was suffering the consequences of retarded emotional develoment to such an extent that it only compounded the damage, and I suspect I arrested again. It was like the rolling stone effect - it kept on going and got worse with the on going years.

How do you go back and relive your childhood and adolescence? How to experience all the things that just weren't there! That's what I'd have to do! How do I now experience being a normal child and teen? I wish, oh I wish I could! All those experiences I never knew and cannot know now because the time for them is passed and gone.

I have often looked at others who were badly abused and who are DID/MPD and see them married with children, and I wonder why it didn't happen for me. My life was not worse than theirs. But now that I have this information, I think I understand why.

I developed other areas of my brain to compensate, and that is good, but my emotional develoment remains an embarrassment and a great impediment in my interpersonal relationships, so that in truth, I don't have any! None have lasted. So of course, now, I protect myself from further grief, and I don't get close to people.

That is about the best way I can explain it. And it is a relief to be able to finally admit, at least on the forum, what my major problem is. It is a load off my chest, so to speak.

All I want from life now, is to be able to love without being rejected, and to remain in reasonable health so I can give my dogs a full and happy life. (My dogs are all I have) I have never really asked for more than to love and be loved. Then it became just to love, with no expectations of being loved and accepted as I am, because I've found that people don't seem to be able to do this. (love me as I am) It is so painful to see those you love turn from you in disgust, and tell you that they want an adult for a friend, not a child.

I wish I could be an adult in my emotions. I wish I could lose my insecurity and terror at the thought of pain and loss. I wish I didn't feel like a frightened child who is all alone in a cruel world. (Imagine how a small child would feel to be lost, alone, and having to face life and its responsibilities!)

Anyway, that is some of my story. There are things that a mature mind cannot do for you. You also need emotional maturity. That is at the centre of your being.

Please forgive this long epistle?

Kerryanne.

hello anndidetal...or is it kerryanne? I am not sure, whichever you wish.
I will have to read your post most carefully to see whether I could supply you with meaningful input.
Do you have previous posts I can look at to gain a more complete picture? May I look at them?
I do not wish to intrude...

Thank you for being kind enough to speak with me. it is nice to have a reply.
Perhaps others will be more revealing to you as to why they feel it necessary to ignore me. I still don't know!!
With metta to you.

Anne/kerryanne,
reading the post, there seems to be a distress you are suffering, because you have discovered that your emotional state is like that of a child.
may I just say that according to Traditional Chinese medicine, THIS IS NORMAL AND TO BE EXPECTED. The Five Elements, (Fire, Earth, Metal, Water and Wood, which are imbued in everything and everyone, and are effects found everywhere) also have attributed emotions to them, and apparently we are all subject to returning to our "child-like" state when we experience emotional upheaval, whether it is good or bad. So your child-like state is quite normal, even though that, due to other traumas, it may be exagerated, or expanded, or be more evident. But this is fine, It's normal for you, just as for others however they react is normal too...
In our emotional imbalance (and again, this could be great joy too) we all behave in an "infantile" manner.... we revert to child-like, or childishness... personally, in my observations of others in general, in my life, I have found that due to suppression and social, cultural attitudes, men are more "childish" in their upsets, than women!! THis is not a fault, it is just a tendency due to conditions imposed upon males to behave in a less emotive manner. So it has to come out somehow.

I hope this helps.



This is very true. maybe I have a lesson to learn here... maybe I am not explaining myself adequately, or in ways people want to hear.

I hope what I have said has not offended you or caused more problem, then.

You may call me either, though Kerryanne is probably more friendly! I am DID/MPD and the two major adult personalities in my 'system' (that's what the 'inner family' is called) recently integrated. The two were known as 'Patience' and 'Anne' in the posts to the forum, but as we now are 'one', the name 'Kerryanne' was chosen.) You might notice that another alter, named 'Percy' also posted on occasions under the ID of Patience, I think!
He is the protector in the system and is 17 yrs old. There are also young children, but of course they do not post.



By all means! I think that if you click on my ID on the left of the post, there is a reference to all previous posts which you can click on, and it will show all my posts in order.

If anything puzzles you, just ask, and I will explain. Some details concerning DID/MPD may be confusing.

I want to say that your response to my emotional problem is very encouraging. It makes me feel 'normal' - if there is such a thing! But you know what I mean. My trouble is that I'm like this all the time! I just wish I could react in a mature way, and not be afraid of letting people know me - and losing my friends.

I have tried meditation; affirmations; visualization and positive thinking, but they just don't seem to help in this situation, though they have helped me to survive all these years, and to achieve many things. My mind responds wonderfully to these, but my emotions don't, and I can't seem to make my mind overrule them. When it comes to personal things, or grief, loss, pain and fear, my emotions seem to have all the power and all the logical thought has no effect. I am very much a 'feeling' person, so perhaps that is why.

I am 68 years old now, and I'd like to be free of this burden which has plagued me all my life. I long to be free of all the fears and insecurities, which are really the insecurities of a child alone.

Holly is being so helpful and supportive, and I think you might help me too.

I have an open mind and heart, and I will welcome your words in a spirit of love.

Kerryanne.

Dear kerryanne, my heart is bursting for you now....
You are such a warm, loving person, it seems impossible for me to understand how anybody could ever have condemned or rejected you.
I can only put forward one thing at present. I will gladly look through your previous posts and details to try to gain a more deep insight into what you are telling me.
can I perhaps put forward that you be happy in the wonder of who you are, and accept yourself in every sense? What others may think, and what opinions they may give, is a handicap on their part, and if anyone is judgemental and critical of you, this is a hurdle for them to overcome, not you. It really is their problem. If they cannot see past their own noses to the person you are already, perfect and miraculous in every way, then their short-sightedness is their issue.
Please don't take this in the wrong way, but maybe you can be easy on yourself, and just take a step back and stop trying so hard? To my way of thinking, we are the products of many rebirths, and to be born human is one of the most wonderful privileges of any birth... you are here amongst us, and with us for a reason. You are a gift to people whose lives are unaffected by such trials and a lesson in finding our own centres...because ultimately, we are all one. we all share the same humanity, and we all bear the same pains and grieviances. if we can just stroke fingertips with one other human being and ease their agony, even for a milisecond, is this not a wonderful miracle of being human together?

I warmly embrace you, KerryAnne, and see nothing in you I would not fervently wish to share with you, myself.

With metta and Karuna.

MettaMaid

Thank you so much MettaMaid, your kind words are inspiring, and comforting.

I am going to try to be kinder to myself. It seems I have more love to give to others than I have to give to me, and I know that is not good.

I have always thought (been taught!) that others are more important than I am, and that they should always come first, - and it is time I let go of that attitude.

Thanks again for your understanding and support.

I send you love.

Kerryanne.

According to Buddhist instruction (and I don't wish to sound as if I am preaching here, I am merely explaining something) it is important to cultivate Metta - Loving Kindness - for everyone. There is a specific Metta meditation, to help you do this, (I say "you", as in everyone, not just 'you' in particular) and the first place you have to start is WITH YOURSELF.

Even the Dalai Lama has said that the purpose in Life is to be happy and to make others happy. Placing things in this order may seem selfish. You seem to have been taught that to do this, is wrong. But this practise or teaching is not based on Egotism or vanity. it is based on practising Universal Compassion, and that has to start with self-Acceptance, self-Unconditional Love and Self-Compassion. if we cannot love and accept ourselves as we would wish to be loved and accepted by others, then our feelings towards others may be flawed, and carry an agenda.... Our Love, Acceptance and Compassion for others will carry conditions, because we have conditions in place about ourselves. We perceive flaws, imperfections and unacceptable things within ourselves, and that gives us the subliminal incorrect message that we are therefore in some ways, un-lovable....we practise self-criticism, and find ourselves agreeing - even unwillingly - with the opinions of others who say - "You see? You are like this, because there is something wrong with you."

Understand this:
NOT ONE DAY GOES BY WHEN THERE IS NOT SOMETHING "WRONG" WITH YOU.
let me give me as an example.
Yesterday, I had a severe headache, and I was a little bad tempered.
The day before, I twisted my ankle a bit, and hobbled for a while.
The day before that, I grazed my elbow on a rough wall.
Today, I am concerned about some external circumstances, and am a bit pre-occupied.

And each day, every day, inexorably, I am growing older, and slowly, imperceptibly, my body is ageing and deteriorating.
Oh, I look after myself. I eat good food, and practise meditation. I follow a devotion and interact with others in as good a way as I can.
But every day, in a small way, there is something wrong with me.
And there always will be. I will never encounter a day when everything within me, about me or around me, will be perfect.

But you know what?

It is not a problem.

Why?

Because when we earnestly practise detachment from the obstacles Life keeps throwing at us, to trip us up, we can quite literally Rise Above It. These things happen to us, but do not affect us. not internally. They cannot upset or dislodge our Inner Serenity, Calm and Joy.

We may well yearn for a partner to share our lives. But anyone who has ever had a long-term relationship will tell you, it is not always and eternally perfect. It can bring anger, sadness, distress and struggle. So a relationship is wonderful, but it is not everything.
We may yearn to have sex, money, property, a perfect body, fast cars, a yacht, a seaside villa, a string of race-horses or a wardrobe full of the latest cat-walk fashions, but it will never be enough, and while they can bring us pleasure, when we lose our libido, go broke, suffer an earthquake or flooding, examine the botox and silicone in our nineties(!), need a mechanic, have the house reposessed, have to pay exhorbitant vet's fees and have an animal put down, and give our glad-rags to a charity shop - then we feel the devastation of the opposite side of Pleasure. The very material things we accumulate to mark the level of our pleasure and desire, are the very things which in turn might eventually bring our dreams and visions crashing about our ears.
It is wonderful to want - and to have - all these things, but they are not permanent, and should not be sought as a measure or degree of our satisfaction.

And so it is with ourselves. To seek perfection and "healing" in ourselves, is a false desire, because we will never be the ideal person we want to be. So much better is it, to look at ourselves in the Mirror, and say - "What a wonderfully perfect walking miracle you are! You have so much love and beauty in your heart, that it shines through and pours from every pore! What a fine example of Loving Kindness you are! I am so glad to have been born as You!! I am a blessing to me, and I live a wondrous life!"
Once ytou have truly accepted and loved yourself as you deserve - and as nobody else can - then, Life will become wonderfully sweet, and no matter waht it brings, you will shine, as you so richly deserve to do!

I am sorry this post is so long, and I hope I have not caused offence to anyone in anything I have said.
I pass on what I know in my own heart to be true, for the Love and Enlightenment of all beings.

With Metta.

Yes, I do know this to be true. I have experienced somuch of it and know in my heart that I need to live in the NOW and see myself as I truly am, and not as others judge me to be.

Wise words!

I was not at all offended because I can always learn from the experiences of others.

I know the importance of detachment. I am fortunate in that I have never wanted more than what is enough. Material things have not been all that important to me. I live a very simple life.

You have given me more to work on, and strive for. I also believe, with the Dalai Lama, that the purpose of life is to be happy and to make others happy. I have just put the cart before the horse all my life. Now it is time to put things in their right order!

Let us discuss this further? I am most interested.

With love,

Kerryanne.

Hello Alexandra,

It saddens me when I see you going around as Mettamaid.
I am back on forum from today and will keenly observe the games you play.
You may deny that you are Alexandra.
But I will not be impressed.
I feel very sad that a person who talks of Buddha and truth is doing this.
Pl. seek counseling.

Thank you fo your kind words CDMohatta, but I assure you, openly, in public and with sincerity, you are mistaken.
I have spoken to Alexandra.
I have even met her now. We met each other in London, and spent the afternoon together. She lives in a Town called St Albans, I live with some friends, in Twickenham.
She is 50.
I am 45.
She has children, I do not.

In many ways, we are very similar, and we both think that Karmically, we have been brought together.
She is half Italian.
I am completely Italian.
But there is much about us that is NOT the same.

I submit to your right to believe whatever you wish to believe and I thank you for your concern.

With Metta.

Alexandra, you better start writing drams. That will suit you better. I am on this forum only and will be active now.Wait and watch. Better stop this Mettamaid business and begin as Alexandra.

KerryAnne, I am very happy that what I have said has not offended you, or caused you grieviance.
This is similar to what i have tried to outline to others, which is what led to them ignoring me, I believe. This is conjecture on my part, because as I have said, nobody has offered any explanation as why they have chosen to not communicate with me. So this is all I can say on the matter, really!

The really difficult part about the things I have discussed with you, is of course, putting them into practise, because it involves literally, "Changing our Minds"! We really do have to steadily work to transform our current way of thinking, and replace non-skillful means, with more skillful means.
The most important thing is to give yourself time, and to not persecute or blame yourself (again, the 'You' is the general sense) if you occasionally fail. Which to begin with, will be frequent! And that is all right. But if you are conscious of the changes you are making an effort to bring to fruit, that is a good sign. if you sometimes say to yourself "No, stop. That is not the right attitude. Don't think this about yourself" it is a healthy sign that you are putting it into practise.
The key is to be mindful, to be aware. To remain attentive and skillfully make the changes, but gradually and to be gentle with yourself. It is like being born again. it is like seeing the world in a new way, from a different perspective.
This Loving-kindness we nourish and develop for ourselves, then naturally grows to embrace all other beings. When we feel such Love, Compassion and Acceptance for ourselves, how can it not grow to include all others?

Alexandra,

I know that you will never accept that you are posting as Mettamaid.
I am ignoring your posts in the name of Mettamaid.

CDmohatta, of course, that is your choice and decision. if this is your wish, then I cannot say anything that will otherwise convince you.

I will not be here for a very long time anyway.
I am travelling to Nepal soon, and hope to be taking up a position with an order of Nuns at the Taraloka Centre.

It will be difficult to leave my many friends here in England, and to not be able to communicate with you or others here.
I have learnt much, and will be leaving with a glad and happy heart that at least, our lives have touched.

With metta.

I've been silently observing the remarks on here for the last couple of days, and frankly I'm fed up to the teeth.

I don't give a toss who is posting under what name. I am only interested in learning and growing, and not in petty nonsense.

This forum is supposed to be about Self Development. Not about picking on others.

I'm out of here!

Af.

I am so sorry this has caused discontent and upset. I would not have been the origin of unhappiness in anyone.
I am so sorry to see how upset you are Af and I hope you will forgive my part in this.
I have only been trying to participate with everyone in the spirit of wholeness and Love, and deeply regret if it has caused you pain.

With Metta.

You are not the origin - IMHO. You are the one being picked on unfairly.

Don't feel responsible MettaMaid. It's OK.

AF.

I agree!

I don't know, but this is beginning to sound like a vendetta against MettaMaid.

I think these negative comments should stop NOW!

I said once before that we should be kind. It's fine to talk about how to improve ourselves, but it means nothing if we don't show compassion to others on this forum.

Kerryanne.

I am sorry for my part in it. Sometimes i try something that i think actually will help, and only after discover it is not the right thing to do at all.

I am sorry, MettaMaid, for several of my remarks in the other thread.

I'm glad you took a chance and shared this with us. That's really a great start!

Sometimes i think, particularly in America, we know too much about our psychology. We've got all these explanations of why we are the way we are. I have them, too. But sometimes i wonder if "explanations" don't keep us in place, a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy that is sometimes only true because we believe it. And sometimes i wonder, how much do those explanations really matter so much anyway?

We all have problems. Yours are particular to your experiences, but the frustrations you are having and the things you wish to change about your relationships really aren't that unusual. I think somewhere along the line you got it in your head that everything about you that is different is somehow abnormal and unacceptable. It isn't. It only matters when there is something you would like to change, and then you just take one step at a time to change it and do your best. You are not set in stone. You can take yourself in the direction you wish to go.

There are many people who go through life alone and without romantic relationships for various reasons. I know several adults over 40 who are virgins, for example. Some people are shy, some like you, were abused. I know several people who have "childish reactions," ...it doesn't make them bad people! I was having panic attacks often... but i learned some skills to manage that kind of fear and it's so much better now. You can learn those skills, too. But even if you never do... it's not like you're walking around with long green horns, spots all over your face, and a tail! There is such variety in human beings and you fit in more than i think you realize. I think you just have a strong expectation that you will be rejected always. Tomorrow night i'm going out to the movies with two friends, one of whom is D.I.D., Ptsd, OCD, etc.... what he calls, "A.F.U." i see him at least twice a week and he has other friends, too...so you see, you don't have a death sentence on relationships. Not all relationships work out. That's true of all of us. Every single human being. Just ask married people how many of them married the first person they dated. Not many. What happened to the other relationships? Down the tubes. Some of us have a few friendships for life, but probably all of us have relationships that don't last. You got very hurt when you lost a close relationship. That is unfortunate. But several of us here at Bella are trying to learn how not to hurt so much from the past and how to enjoy more of the better parts of life. We can help eachother learn how to deal with some of these relationship situations.

As for your being told you act like a child... most people say hurtful things when a relationship goes sour, it doesn't mean it's all true or should be taken to heart. Sometimes there is a grain of truth and that's the part that hurts so much... but they are just angry and they are trying to detatch, and in a year, even they won't believe all they said.

There isn't a person on the face of the earth that doesn't have faults. Look at me, for instance... i just stuck my foot in my mouth with someone... you saw it. So... i try to learn from it and move on. But that's it. It would not be helpful for me to think i will always make the same mistakes because of my past, you see?

I think it would help if for a little while you stop explaining why you are as you are (to yourself, particularly), as if it's an apology or like you are somehow broken. DID, history, how your brain appears on a catscan... it isn't the whole of who you are as a person and none of it dictates who you will be tomorrow. I think you need to let go of that so that you can have some breathing room to pursue whatever it is you would like to pursue. What would life be like for you if for one day, you couldn't explain ANYTHING to yourself in terms of the past or a medical condition? You have told me you've learned to accept yourself... well... this is it, right? This is the front line of the battlefield. If you accept yourself it doesn't matter what catscans say or what a past friend said when they were angry, etc.... the thing that matters is now, and what you would like to do, and it is still possible to do what you would like with a fresh start.

Each thing you mentioned... the panic attacks... clinging... inexperience in relationships... etc., these are all things you can learn to handle. That's really what the rest of us are doing here, too. I'm trying to learn more confidence and how to feel more secure... that's related to clinging, don't you think? Panic attacks... that really is a skill set... i got a recorded program to learn the skills, there are also books about skills to handle panic and anxiety. It actually isn't that hard, and you can see improvement in a few months or less. Relationships... you just took a big step right here... by opening up. Opening up... revealing yourself... took courage and a bit of accepting yourself, too! Bravo!

Despite what everyone says and despite the knowledge that I may be called a trouble maker i am being targeted here.

Why did no one believe me when I said that Mettamaid is Alexandra?
Most of you believed what she said and I know she is acting.
I am sorry. I thought that I had friends here who believed in me. Now I feel sad that the truth was different.

I will not post anymore in self development and inspiration threads again.
If I am not believed then why should I suggest or post?

And yes, it does matter to me if somebody lies.

Dear Holly,

I am so grateful for your encouraging words. It is WONDERFUL to have someone accept me as I am.

I have discovered that one is never too old to learn, and I am learning.

You have helped me more than you can know. THANK YOU!

Kerryanne.

Dear CDM,

If you weren't believed, it was because you made these claims without proof.

You cannot know for a fact that MettaMaid is Alexandra, and to accuse anyone of being a liar is not acceptable under those circumstances. In Australia, you could be sued for it!

What does it matter anyway? This forum is open to anyone who wishes to post an opinion.

Kerryanne.

I am also learning, Kerryanne.

I understand your point about assertions. CDM is pretty upset about this. I am hoping at some point when things have settled and he is no longer upset that i can coax him back. We shall see.

At any rate, as the saying goes, "Least said, soonest mended." Wish i'd remembered that one before all this! hahaha. Ah well... 20-20 hindsight! So shall we see if we can get the topics back to more constructive subjects?

We were talking at one point about pain and pleasure as motivation.

I sometimes find that when i want to go in a certain direction, but i keep stopping, that it is not because there are actual bad consequences to it, but rather the problem is old associations of pain with it... in other words, memories.

Take for example, making art. When my husband started falling apart and was becoming more psychotic, it had in a roundabout way to do with my making art. And he started haranging me about anything connected with my art. If i went to see an artist friend, i'd be criticized. If i spent time making my art i'd be criticized. Etc. My association with art itself was pleasure, but there were some horrible events that got sort of "stickied" to making art, you know what i mean?

Now when i want to make art... i can't even think of pulling my supplies out of the cabinet without all sorts of negative memories and thoughts seeping into my consciousness, and it is just painful enough that i find i avoid making art now.

Do you have any suggestions?

I understand you completely Holly. This is exactly how I am about forming friendships. Easier to detach and avoid possible further pain. It's like how a child learns not to touch the hot plate on the stove. It burns! You learn not to do it again.

Kerryanne.

Holly,
I know CDM since very long.
He will never return to this section of self development again.
Alexandra had the trick of spoiling every thread.
Same is being done by Mettamaid.
If asked- how to enjoy sex?
She will answer- Why do you want sex.
The pattern is simple- disruption.
She has succeeded in driving CDM away.
Yesterday he told me that he was happy wilth that.
More time for his work.

Remember Robbins?
Can you convert the bad memories in something insignificant.
Or you will never again take up art.

No, i wish to take up art again. And i think sometimes doing the thing that triggers the associations makes the associations recede and be peaceful.

A few years ago i tried some of the Robbins' techniques with making art and it did not work, but i can try again. Art is funny that way... very tempermental... very sensitive to what is going on inside a person.

There are things i can't put into words. When i feel more whole... i can do almost anything and i am at peace, focused, and more confident. Whether i am whole or not is something i feel intuitively... it's like knowing your body temperature - a scale that is up or down. You could use a thermometer but you can get a sense of it without a thermometer. You know if you feel sick or not. I know if i feel whole or not, and consequently, if i will struggle to make art before i even try, have the past haunt if i go to do something, have nightmares on any given night, and such. Sometimes i have wondered if this is prediction or self-prophesy. I think it's prediction, though, based on how i feel inside.

I call it wholeness but i don't know if that's the right word. It is characterized by feeling balanced without effort, peace, clarity, steadiness, a certain amount of invulnerability, often accompanied by happiness.

I will try to make art again soon.

Is anyone else dealing with negative associations with something they want to do again?

Holly,

I have found this-

when I feel unmotivated to do some work, I anyway begin and after sometime the motivation comes back.

When i get the time to do it, i will try. I know that is true in other things, but art may be different.

I am speaking of creative art. Yes. Try this.

For me going away from pain has become supreme.

In what way?

I can not take any intense pain now. I have had enough of it.
I want some fun now. That is I have posted few jokes also. I need some peace and fun. I feel battered otherwise.

I can understand that.

Holly, am I right?
What do you say?

About wanting some peace and fun? of course. That's the kind of thing that keeps us going.

Why is Alexandra complaining about jokes then?

She never wanted other to enjoy. Forget her.

I can't think. I am not wise.

Lucky you are not wise.