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Posted By: indigo2 unconditional love? - 10/11/07 05:32 PM
i just had to post this! this morning i was working at the gym. the instructor was talking about her 4 yr. old son(very nice and cute kid)anyway, she said that he's the first person she has felt unconditional love from.i thought to myself what about her husband?(don't know if she's married or has a boyfriend)anyway, i certainly feel that my hubby has unconditional love for me and vice versa.i also have a few friends that i feel that way about. i mean i don't know why people think that children are the only ones to give unconditional love. i mean my parents dog even gives that to me. also with so many parents having strained relationships with their kids as they get older there's no garuantee of continuing unconditional love.

that comment really struck me. i don't know .in a way i felt sad for her.i mean i really don't think a child should have such a burden placed on him/her.it sounded like to me that he's filling a huge hole in her life.

i believe that unconditional love should and does come from a variety of people in your life. i think it's just another manipulation to get people to have kids.

indigo
Posted By: lngilbert Re: unconditional love? - 10/11/07 05:49 PM
I get unconditional love from my sugar glider, Hamlet. Also, my dogs. My husband, too.
Posted By: flyingaway Re: unconditional love? - 10/11/07 06:13 PM
I agree with you Indigo. Does a mother love her child unconditionally too? Because then hasn't this woman received it from her own mother?

It does seem like setting yourself up for future loneliness when your child grows up and finds their own love life, and setting up your children to pull away from you because you're so needy.

My own mother pulls this [censored] all the time...she tells us she's only truly "happy" when she's around us (her kids). Then she's constantly dissatisfied, since I live 7 hours away (gee, wonder why?), and my sibling has a busy life and full time job. I think it's a sad way to live to always be clinging to someone who has their own life, and not be able to build deep relationships with anyone else.
Posted By: BillieCat Re: unconditional love? - 10/11/07 06:31 PM
My mom does the same Frieda.

I know that teenagers don't give unconditional love.
Posted By: bassgrrl Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 01:47 AM
But it's NOT unconditional! She feeds, houses and otherwise attends to the child's every need. Last I checked, those are conditions.

It sounds like she simply prefers parental obligations to spousal obligations.
Posted By: Terrence Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 02:01 AM
I know a good friend who does EVERYTHING for her child. The Dad is a deadbeat. Yet she still gets unwanted feedback from her son. Maybe in time he (the kid) will learn and understand.

I have plenty of other horror stories.....not the kind I like !
Posted By: Lisa_Orlando Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 02:09 AM
One thing I have been trying SO hard to do for my daughter is to make her independent. I don't DO everything for her because she is 10 years old and capable of learning to do things herself.

She does the dishes most of the time, she folds her laundry, if she is in trouble she folds mine as well. She makes her own bed and helps me make mine. She is responsible for putting the trash out at the curb and usually collecting it in the house beforehand. She scoops the litter box as well. Of course there are times when I do some of these things for her, especially when she has brought home good grades or something. She also is learning too cook. She has been capable of making her own dinner since she was in 1st grade, back then of course it was a frozen dinner but over time she learned to read the time on the box and put the time in herself. Now she can make things that are not from a box.

People who are a slave to their children do them NO favours, the real world is a shock to them when MOMMY isn't there to pick up the pieces. AND keeping a dead beat Dad around teaches the child that his behavior is not only OK but preferable.
Posted By: Maxwell Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 03:05 AM
I've heard the expression "unconditional love" for your child not for your parents. That is, you love your child because he/she is your child - that's it.
On this point - I recall seeing a documentary about death row a few years ago - a mother was saying that she loved her son unconditionally (he was facing execution) even though he was a convicted serial killer. She didn't approve of his actions or make excuses for him but he was still her boy...
Posted By: NotInterested Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 03:50 AM
I wish my mother made me do the laundry, wash the dishes, etc when I was growing up. To this day, she still feels guilt over doing that. In trying to protect me (the oldest and only male child) she literally did me no favors for preparing for the future.

I ended up paying the price when I went to college and literally had no idea what the heck I was doing. When I ultimately moved out on my own, I was a fish out of water. I was lucky I didn't burn the water when I tried to boil it. (I kid you not!)

Luckily, my wife educikmated me in the ways of keeping house, cooking, etc. Ok, so she's not a good housekeeper, but I turned out to not be a good one either, so we're both on even ground there -- most definitely not a point of disagreement in our household.

I'm not perfect, but at least I know how to help out around the house. And when I do cook stuff, it is good (or so I've been told). But part of me still thinks that she just says that just because. Low self-esteem kicks in for some reason in that area of life for me.

Posted By: Lisa_Orlando Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 11:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Deborah49
I've heard the expression "unconditional love" for your child not for your parents. That is, you love your child because he/she is your child - that's it.
On this point - I recall seeing a documentary about death row a few years ago - a mother was saying that she loved her son unconditionally (he was facing execution) even though he was a convicted serial killer. She didn't approve of his actions or make excuses for him but he was still her boy...


That is how I feel about my daughter, no matter what she could do I would still love her. I might be hurt, dissappointed or whatever but she is part of my body, I could no sooner dis-own her then I would cut off my right arm because it had done something wrong.
Posted By: lngilbert Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 04:25 PM
I think it's great that you're teaching your daughter how to take care of herself like that. I'm currently watching a family I babysat fall apart because the kids were NEVER taught responsibility. And when I babysat and expected them to do something responsible, like clear their own dishes, clean their own messes, the parents reprimanded me. Well, I bet if she thought about it now, that mom would probably realize that it WASN'T a bad thing for me to expect the kids to clean up their own messes.

Because now she can't get the oldest to get a job or do chores around the house, and he's 19, and the youngest still throws screaming fits about doing his homework (because they never made him do homework) and he's 12. And the girl misses her softball practices and games because she expects Mom to know when they're all scheduled, so if Mom forgets, the girl ends up late and in tears.

They were so concerned with the kids only having fun that they didn't realize what a disservice they were doing to the kids (and themselves.)
Posted By: Skeeter Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 05:08 PM
Unconditional love based for genetic offspring is stupid. I love my wife unconditionally, thats something real, I chose it, I committed to it, and I honor it. Thats what love is supposed to be. Simply stating that you love something because it came from your body is ridiculous, it turns it into an obligation. If you "HAVE to love your child unconditionally" then what does meaning does it have. It's our ability not to love someone that makes love meaningfull. Loving someone based on a rigid societal belief structure remove the meaning. IMHO

Skeeter
Posted By: bobhope Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 07:59 PM
I think that's great Lisa, having your daughter learn household tasks and teaching her to care for herself. My sister and I are 8 years apart. Growing up I was expected to do the things you've listed your daughter does. My sister for some reason missed out on being expected to do much of anything except her homework. I think it was just an 8 year time difference and with my mother working and being tired she just did the stuff herself. She must have figured it was easier for some reason. I don't know what caused the change in parenting.

In middle school I cooked, cleaned and did most of my laundry. I went to college, had my own apartment and was fine. My sister at college would call home asking if she should take the plastic off the frozen dinner before she cooked it. I believe she was 20 at this point, since previous to that she lived in a dorm and so ate on campus.

My mother still complains that now my sister is 23 and can't keep a house plant alive and that she seems dingy. I figure it's mostly my mother's fault. My sister is very motivated job/school wise, but as far as cleaning her place or acting like an adult with her home life it just isn't happening. There's something to be said for preparing your children to be adults versus just letting them act like kids until they're 30. Responsibility at home is a good thing. Worse case scenerio they just turn out to be messy, but on the other side of things the lack of motivation could carry over to school and work if parents aren't careful.

My sister did get a 3.8 at school and is now going to grad school, so it's not as if she's not productive. I just don't think she'll ever cook food from scratch though or be able to care for a cat.
Posted By: Lisa_Orlando Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Skeeter
Unconditional love based for genetic offspring is stupid. I love my wife unconditionally, thats something real, I chose it, I committed to it, and I honor it. Thats what love is supposed to be. Simply stating that you love something because it came from your body is ridiculous, it turns it into an obligation. If you "HAVE to love your child unconditionally" then what does meaning does it have. It's our ability not to love someone that makes love meaningfull. Loving someone based on a rigid societal belief structure remove the meaning. IMHO

Skeeter


My unconditional love for my daughter is not a choice I have made, it just IS. Its a reality that I have no influence over or control.

By saying you love your wife unconditionally, are you saying if she cheated on you, tried to kill you, or became a serial killer and killed a hundred of your family and friends you would still love her? I can say I would still love my daughter and actually probably MORE if she did things like this.

Posted By: flyingaway Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 10:12 PM
What??? If your daughter killed hundreds of your family and friends you'd love her MORE? That seems really odd to me. What kind of love do you feel for these family and friends who she kills?

Posted By: Tbunny Re: unconditional love? - 10/12/07 10:59 PM
I don't know... I guess I kind of "get" that concept. Maybe the same way the mother of a drug addict or alcoholic loves her child (even as adults) - I don't know if "more" is the way I'd put it, but it would be love mixed with sadness, pity, helplessness, etc. I don't think it would necessarily mean encouragement or condonement of the actions, just that deep feeling for the child.

I think the issue here is the distinction between "unconditional" love and "conditional" love as they pertain to children. There are a whole lot of screwed up individuals who grew up with "conditional" love. Not nec. abused, but co-dependent, or with self esteem issues from having to second guess what "condition" will win the affection/approval of the parent.

And I don't agree that you HAVE to love a child because it came from you. Otherwise we wouldn't have a world full of abused, neglected, etc. children.

Just my two cents.
Posted By: Lisa_Orlando Re: unconditional love? - 10/13/07 12:46 AM
I would love her more because she needs the love more. I know this is an extremely different example but when a child comes home from school and has been picked on, I feel like showing her MORE love is the appropriate thing to do.

Nothing she could do would make me stop lovig her. If she hurt people I would of course feel horribly for her victims and I would feel personally responsible to a degree but I wouldn't stop loving her.
Posted By: Vance - Crime Editor Re: unconditional love? - 10/13/07 12:56 AM
It is hard for the CF people here to fathom an unconditional love that we have for our children. Unless you live it, you probably wouldn't be able to understand the whole realm of it.

I love my wife and am in love with my wife but if she hurt me or the children or other people, I would leave her in a quick minute. I do not feel that way with my children. I am along the same lines of belief as Lisa is in regards with our children.

I have an unconditional love for my children but do not have one for my spouse in that same way.
Posted By: flyingaway Re: unconditional love? - 10/13/07 01:48 AM
Welll, I guess I can understand that. I've thought I felt that way before, but realize I have not. My loss...(though this certainly doesn't seem like the best part of parenting).

Posted By: NotInterested Re: unconditional love? - 10/13/07 02:09 AM
I just can't understand that concept. From what has been said, the best I can comprehend is that is much like how I absolutely, positively, can not wrap my brain around the thought processes that surround people who believe in $deity. I've tried for years, and been unsuccessful in the attempt.

Thusly, I admit that I can't understand the process, so I don't try anymore. Those things are just a totally foreign concept to me.
Posted By: Sylvia - Re: unconditional love? - 10/13/07 03:16 AM
I wonder if it would be more accurate to say that the love for a child is the closest two people can get to experiencing unconditional love - one on the receiving end and one on the giving end. It is not guaranteed (as the staggering numbers of child abuse cases showcase) but it is a possibility.

Loving a spouse unconditionally does not appear to work in the long run, simply because at some point in time the person will cease to live up to our expectations. At that time it is the conscious decision to keep on loving in spite of that person's character that keeps the relationship alive and thriving.

Perhaps it is the fact that in a marriage there are well defined roles each partner is supposed to play, while a parent-child relationship is one-sided in the role department where the person with the responsibility for acting does not expect anything in return.
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