So my friend is having a big birthday party for her 2nd child on Saturday (well, not as big as the first, which required renting out a hall. This one will be in their house, but they're still having the petting zoo.)

We were supposed to go, along with our other two friends. They had to back out because they're having work done on their house this weekend, so I decided not to go, too. We don't know anyone else there. This girl, who used to be one of my best friends, stopped having her own friends. All her friends are her husband's friends now.

I called her to tell her I couldn't come. The babysitter answered the phone and said, "oh, I thought you were [the husband.]" I asked if I could leave a message. She said, "well, I'm like super busy right now. I'm putting sunscreen on the kids. You'll have to call back and leave a message on the machine."

Which I did. I was thisclose to adding at the end, "by the way, your babysitter is lazy" but I refrained.

Anyway, my friend called me back and left ME a message. She said that she was sad and upset that I wasn't going to be there. She's not mad, but she did sound upset.

I'm sorry, but:

a) I've never met the kid.
b) We called and called around her due date and she never got back to us to tell us the kid had been born. We found out a month later!!!
c) She can never make it to Girls' Night anymore. If she can, she insists that we go to her house so that she doesn't have to get a babysitter.
d) She rarely returns calls or emails anymore from us.
e) Half the time we make plans she cancels or shows up really late.

So, you made your bed, time to sleep in it. You don't make time for us, we don't make time for you.

A close friend of mine from high school (literally, my only female friend from high school who lasted past high school --- the rest of 'em were all guys, most of whom are still friends of mine) had a kid about six years ago. She lives in AZ and I have only seen her once or so in the past ten years, but we had a nice (if intermittent) email correspondence going. She's an artist and a jewelrymaker/silversmith.

So last year, when I was in Vegas over the summer (DH was at a postal conference), I offered to drive over to see her. She was getting packed to move, she said, so it wouldn't be a great time for it. I told her I wanted to see the desert and that seeing her would just be gravy, and I could be totally flexible with time (I'd of course stay in a hotel), but she still said no. She did say that she'd be at an artists' conference in Maine (relatively close to me) a few months later, and that we could see each other then.

I emailed her at the conference in the fall, and said I'd be happy to come up to see her --- again, with a totally flexible schedule. She replied that she was really, really busy, and that it wouldn't work out.

So...lemme get this straight. I offer to do all the travelling, in both cases (hours' worth), and she can't even set aside an hour? Particularly after she'd said getting together in Maine would be a workable idea, told me the dates a few months in advance, etc.?

I thought, for a bit, that maybe she was just trying to blow me off as a friend...trying to let me down easy. But she's been continuing to occasionally send me pictures of her son via email, with little captions about his life and her life and her DH's life. I used to comment on them and try to keep the connection going. She probably hasn't noticed that I've recently dropped all pretense that we have a relationship. It's as if her idea of a "friendship" at this point, is sending me pictures of her kid and her work on her commercial website and having me say "Oooh! That's nice".

We were good friends in high school and she got me through some really rough patches. I've always been extremely sentimental about holding onto relationships (I guess it comes with the territory of being a chld of divorce who also moved a lot; if you have a friendship, by all means, hold onto it!). But I've learned, since then, that when all that's left of a relationship is the history, the best way to honor that history is to just let it go.

At times, I've wanted to drop her a note saying why I won't be getting back in touch with her. But I've just let it slide. I have good reason:

I recently ended another friendship which had gone waaaay past its time --- this time with a male friend. This friendship used to be a viable one when we lived in the same city, but had devolved into just forwarding each other interesting email news items and his sending me notices of what his premature, physically handicapped, yet intellectually bright toddler was up to.

This friendship "breakup" went very badly. The guy nearly tore my head off when I told him that while I was interested in what his kid was up to, that "kid stuff" had become the sum total of what he had to say to me. While it was nobody's fault, specifically, we'd descended into a bunch of email forwarding, hadn't seen each other in 10 years, etc., etc., and that I just didn't see the point any more (he lives in DC; I'm in NH). Even more to the point, a dear mutual friend of ours (the one who'd introduced us 20 years ago) had died, and so we were that much less likely to ever see each other again.

He ended the relationship (or, should I say, by this point, a "correspondence") with a string of expletives. F%^k you, Elise (for being so honest --- I guess that was the subtext). Nice!

Well, at least I know now that I made the right choice in dropping him as a "friend". I just shouldn't have told him why, or even that I was dropping him. Just take his name out of the address book and block the email address.

People who become Professional Parents don't want to be told that they're no longer interesting, apparently...

All of this occurred against the backdrop of my other friends. Many are single, most are straight, some are gay, some are coupled or married. Most have no kids, but some are parents. The parents with whom I've maintained real, vital friendships make an effort to continue to relate to me as an adult, rather than just merely cornering me as an audience for their pictures and their stories about their offspring. The ones who are not parents? We just go blithely and happily along, having not missed a beat.

My two best friends, I met the year I was 11 (we did a summer children's theatre program together, and met...OMG...30 years ago last month!). One is a single, childfree gay man. The other is a divorced mother of three. It's not a person's reproductive status which makes them a good friend...it's whether or not they have a flippin' clue.

Byebye, Maureen. 'Bye, Mead. It was fun while it lasted.

omg bonsai... I'm so sorry about what happened with your friends... I've been going through stuff like that recently too, with friends who either got a little too wild and I had to leave behind, or friends I had to drop because of bad relationships. I've gotten to a point where I don't really mind burning bridges all that much, I get over it fairly quickly.

Right now I worry about a friend of mine who married a japanese guy and immediately had a baby (got pregnant on her first month as a married woman). Now, since she has no job there and very few friends, plus a slew of cultural differences to deal with, she's alone with the kid most of the time and she's made him the center of her universe. I feel bad for her sometimes because I know she just ended up as a trophy wife, and the worst part is another friend of mine is about to do the same thing. I'm starting to really resent the "mexican woman = perfect wife and mother" label, but most of all I'm starting to despise my girl friends for making themselves so readily available to the trophy wife hunters.

Hi Ingelbert

Well done on taking a stand. The last two kid's birthday parties I have been to have been for my close friend's daughter. I love my friend and her daughter (now 8). But both times I nearly felt suffocated after just a couple of hours with those parents. Two years ago they had a 'pool party' at a suburban public swimming pool - they rented a room with a little pool in it. The kids ran riot in the pool and the parents sat around the edge and cooed. I hadn't subjected my DH to this. I sat with my friend's Mum who started to ask me when I was having children. I tried my best to have intelligent conversations with the other parents, but none of them reciprocated. I couldn't wait to get out of there! Last year I went along again because they were having a games afternoon with a mini disco. I played the cool adult for a while - got up and danced and had fun with the kids. A woman beside me in probably her late 40s asked me which one was my child. I said "none of them - I don't have children". She gave me this kind of yearning look (yearning to be me I mean!) and admitted that her 7-year old daughter was an 'oops' - her other two children are in their 20's. She started to actually say that she wondered why she had put herself through this again. She looked exhausted! Then she had to rush off, she said, because she was helping with the school play that night, because they didn't have enough parents to help. At that stage a year ago I had been feeling "childLESS" rather than "childFREE" but I have to say I skipped home feeling very relieved to be me.

I have been wanting to vent about these two friends that I have, however it has nothing to do with kids. Neither have children. Lngilbert and Elise's stories reminded me of these situations. I guess I just wonder--is it always kids or are some people just rude, even without them?

I work with these two friends and neither of them seem to feel that I should expect them to fulfill a commitment or attend a get-together. ever. I will sometimes plan a get together or a girls night out for drinks. I will make the invites in person and send a reminder e-mail the day prior.

These two don't respond to my e-mails and give wishy washy responses to my in-person invites. If by chance they do agree to attend, they don't show...and say the just wanted to be alone. I have also been told that they will not attend get togethers that involve others from work.

I am all for having alone time. But is it to much to ask that one make an effort? Even if you are in a bad mood, you can show for an hour....I just dont get it.

I can only imagine what will happen when they have kids!!!

That just might be the way that they are. I do not socialize AT ALL with people from work. A social faux paus amongst your social circles is one thing. A social faux paus among co-workers that you see EVERY DAY -- that can be quite problematic, career-wise and rumor-mill wise.

But is it to much to ask that one make an effort? Even if you are in a bad mood, you can show for an hour....I just dont get it.

When all that is discussed at such "socially forced" work outings is stuff that you have nothing in common with (ie KIDS) you DO NOT WANT TO GO TO SUCH THINGS. Take it from someone who quit going to such things years ago because all I and my wife ended up doing was sitting alone in all my co-workers until we left because all that everyone else was talking about was stuff that we have no experience with -- boating, kids, the latest network TV shows (which are really stupid), or movies that do not interest us.

Don't judge people by their not wanting to go. By your asking again and again, you are FORCING them to feel worse than they actually are, probably leading to how they react to you NOW.

Accept their decision not to socialize with you and go on about your life. Please.

But Duane, don't you think there a difference between someone always turning down invites from you (i.e., they don't want to be your friend) and someone who says they'll be there, but then almost never shows? (I.e., flaky, no manners).

Neither is a good quality to have in a friend, but I think there's a distinction to be drawn there.

I can see where there might be a distinction between the two different scenarios. Where I see the potential differences is that the person who does not want to go might feel bingoed by being asked enough times, so that the gut reaction, if they are just plain tired of being asked so many times (and thinking that "How many NOs is enough to get the message???") is to think "Ok, maybe if I say I'm going and I don't go enough times, they'll finally stop ASKING ME TO GO."

That's my point. I've been in that situation in the past -- and it's not fun. I'm sorry, but that situation hit close to home for me.

Oh, no, it is NOT always kids. I think that having kids just makes some people ruder. Like my friend with the party ... she is the kind of person who always used to want to do EVERYTHING at her house. She never wanted to go to anyone else's house. And she always wanted things her way. She also was bad about returning phone calls and emails.

After she had kids, though, it just got 10x worse. I think people use having kids as an excuse. "Sorry I didn't return your phone call from 3 months ago. You know, I'm just SO busy with the children."

"Sorry I never told you that my son was born. It's just SO HARD having two kids, you know?"

"Sorry I never told you that my son was born. It's just SO HARD having two kids, you know?"

Silly LNG! Didn't read the post (I think it was PG's) about her friends? Having two kids is so easy! LOL

Thus far, I've been spared most of the kid's parties and parents ditching because of the children. This is mostly because I've gradually drifted away from many of my prospective parent friends. The conversations were getting boring before they even got the the baby stage of their lives. These days, my fiance and I hang out with mostly young, single guys. One of the closest would absolutely love to be a dad someday, but right now he's 22 and between GFs, so he's thinking far into the future. We've still got time to enjoy his company before some girl snatches him away! lol

lngilbert, I have a friend like your friend with the party. Before kids, everything had to be at her house...and after kids she now had an excuse! This issue seems to go hand in hand with friends not willing to drive-i guess the reason that everything must be at their house!

Duane, I was trying not to be long-winded in my earlier rant, but perhaps I should have explained the situation better.

The two "Friends" and I worked together, yes. But one of the two and I had significant conversation to the point of where I was told that I was like a sister to her. The second "friend" began to hang out with us and from the beginning was flaky. She does not just flake on my plans. She flakes on HER OWN plans.

In the past six months she invited me to hike..and cancelled the day of. Invited me to get drinks for MY OWN birthday...and cancelled....this is in addition to the invitations of mine that she flaked on or did not respond to. So while typically, if I invite you out three times and you dont come three times then I would say, "okay, this person is not interested in a friendship.", since I kept getting invites I assumed it was NOT a lack of desire or interest in being my friend.

Friendship is like dating and I am getting mixed signals.

My invitations don't often involve others from work. In fact, these two were the only two I socialized with. The "girls" night I mentioned was JUST THE THREE OF US! I began to spend time with another girl at work and this is when I was told by friend 1 to not expect her to attend a barbecue if I invited anyone else (ie. this new person I was socializing with) from work.

I would love to walk away from the two of them, shake off my disappointment in either their rudeness or lack of desire to be my friend. But as we all work in the same office, I am not comfortable inviting a few others from work and not at least extending the invitation to them.

Duane, you may be right and these two just don't want to be my friend. But from the actions I have experienced and how they treat eachother AND their other friends, they are happy to be my friend, as long as it does not inconvenience them.

If I am their good friend, as they tell me I am, then I feel they can make an appearance despite a bad mood. Otherwise, don't tell me I am your good friend.

In comparison to their lame excuses, flaking due to kids seems reasonable!!

Chaco, that just sucks. Why are some people jerks?

I work as a teacher but I am quite wary of getting involved socially (outside of work) with anyone who has kids there. (Also because I know of people who've used other people there they've become friendly with for free babysitting!)
My best friends in my home country are a group of gay childfree guys. Over here I go to an interest group where if people have kids they leave them at home. Hubby and I were friends with a couple but after they had the baby things changed. The husband only called MY husband when he wanted something, they eventually stopped calling to do things socially. So of course hubby got [censored] off!
I went to a party for an older child at school, she was about 10 and to a 3 year old's party of another staff member once but this lady has thrown several parties for adults. That's it though. There have been kiddie parties happen with those who work closest to me but fortunately I have not been invited. I'm SO glad cos I went to one other kiddie party and found it SO damn BORING! It was at some indoor adventure playground so it seemed like the kids were having all the fun, I didn't know anyone but the parents (I was their son's teacher) the food was too sweet and the adults were watching the children.
So I'm glad I don't get invited and I know somehow they've got the message NOT to invite ME!

Duane, I was trying not to be long-winded in my earlier rant, but perhaps I should have explained the situation better.

Not a problem at all -- I see your POV, now that I see the situation. Seeing those details, I really didn't, but too late

Friendship is a two-way street -- give and take, preferably in equal amounts. Sometimes, you do what you have to do to keep the peace, even if it makes you shake your head in disbelief.

Ingilbert: I can totally relate to your situation. A friend of mine came to mind when you were telling your story. It's like the Stepford Wive Syndrome - these women live for their husbands and their children. But then expect everyone to still be there when they need them, as their "token" friends at their parties.

I've had so many friends do this. I can think of one that fell off the face of the earth when she started dating her husband. I literally hadn't heard from her in over a year, and got an invitation to her wedding. She needed to invite friends, and wasn't friendly with any of us anymore. But she needed to fill her "friends" table rather than admit to herself and her family while planning the wedding that she really didn't have any friends anymore. Whatever.

Another friend dropped off the face of the earth after she got married, and she wasn't working. And she would always say how bad she was at keeping in touch. And I couldn't understand why, because what was she *doing*? I know that she wasn't just blowing me off, because I would hear from her on rare occasion. She had a better excuse once the kids came along. I was always better at keeping the friendship going, but thought of ending it many times.

But then when she calls me, and if I don't get back to her right away, she gets upset. It's like I'm supposed to drop everything b/c she wants to be "friends" now.

Ironically, she's moving back to Pa now b/c her marriage fell apart. And my fiance and I are moving to Florida - he just accepted an offer down there. So I am kind of leaving her in the dust now, so to speak. I still like her as a person, but I know her limitations as a friend, and we aren't close.

Hey, Happy, you get to move! Right on! Congratulations on the job offer.

Did you resolve the situation with your MIL/nephew? Will your parents OK cope when you go?

Hi Pika,

Thanks for remembering. Yeah, my fiance got the offer, and we are thrilled. I am feeling better about being in the same state as his family, LOL. As someone recently pointed out to me - Florida is a big state! We are probably going to have to continually put his family in their place, but it will be okay. We are going to be busy, too. And his parents, my inlaws, are pretty occupied with their grandkids that live five minutes away. Better someone else dealing with them than me!

My nephew has been asking a lot of questions about it. But I keep reassuring him that I will still see him, and that he can visit. I will definitely fly north to visit him as well. It does make me sad, but I know we will still be close, but our relationship will change.

My parents will be okay, but of course they will miss us. I think all in all it would be healthier for me to be away from the family drama of the ongoing custody battle between my sister and parents. It will be an adjustment, but it will be great for us as a couple.

I had to talk to his Mom on the phone the other day, and I was cold b/c I'm still not over her rude e-mail. It will pass, but I don't want her to think she can just walk over me. I didn't get into it with her, but I'm on my guard with her because she's such a gossip.

I hope everything works out for you, too, H2BCF.

Hey Congrats!
On to a new adventure

Thanks ladies!