I feel so left out and lonely. I wonder if any other Christian is going through what I am. I live with my fiancee and we are both believers in Christ. He encourages me to masturbate (and he does as well) because we have agreed to not have sex before marriage. Now, even when I am alone I am tempted and masturbate without any probing from him. I feel so guilty, dirty, and feel that it is not right. I have NEVER shared this before with anyone but feel that this is a safe enough environment to ask of other Christians if they struggle with this too (masturbation, the whole living together thing is something I am trying to get out of).

Is there any Scripture you use to help deter you? Do you have an accountability partner who understands? I can't ask this in church. I can't ask my friends, too embarrassing. Please HELP!

Wow, Sis, you really do ask the tough questions. I applaud you though for your transparency, honesty, and willingness to get answers from God's point of view.

It is a sad commentary to hear that so many Christians are not comfortable enough /safe enough/embarrassment-free enough/loved enough to be able to share real struggles within our churches. Hence, the reason many of us "feel so left out and lonely" is because we cannot find or identify with anyone else who is going through the same struggles that are beating us down. I guarantee that there are probably a high percentage of other Christians who are dealing with the same thing you are, but are too afraid of what others may think of them to reach out for help. So, again thank you for bringing this issue up.

First of all, let's identify the sin. According to the Bible, your sin is fornication. I know that we generally define fornication as sex before marriage (with another person) but fornication means so much more. Let's do a brief word study of fornication. I love word studies it's where we go to the original language in which the Scripture we are studying was written (OT- Hebrew; NT Greek), look at the genre of the text (poetry, narrative, letter, etc.), the context, the content, and the culture to understand the author's intent of his writing (not what the Word means to "me" but what God is saying through the author to communicate to the reader). And, of course this will only whet your appetite and hopefully inspire you to continue to inductively study the Word on your own for this issue and everything else.

The Greek word porneia (which is translated fornication [4202] is an umbrella term for many sexual sins such as: adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that God has placed for mankind to observe. Quite simply, sex and the feelings that go along with sexual stimulation are reserved only for Biblical marriage (Hebrews 13:4, I Corinthians 7:2-4).

This post could easily end up being pages in length, but I am not going to do that. I want you to hear God's voice for yourself in reference to this issue. Here are some Scripture on sexual sin (sexual sin being anything that has to do with lust of the mind and body, defilement of the marital bed, or anything that has to with the sexual organ(s) for the purpose of pleasure seeking). Fornication is found 32 times in the New Testament. I will select a few to help you get started in your study: Matthew 5:32; Romans 1:29-32; I Corinthians 5:1; I Corinthians 6:18; Ephesians 5:3.

I am happy to hear that you are at least thinking about changing your living situation. I could be wrong, but I hear some possible control issues with your boyfriend and the beginning of idolatry (I Corinthians 6:13). I would like to suggest getting connected with your local church in a humbling way and find a female mentor who is strong in the Word, understands and honors confidentiality, mature, and LIVES OUT what she teaches. When dealing with sin, we cannot run away from the church and the community of Believers. We need each other for accountability, growth, and encouragement to do the Will of God.

I hope that I have helped you in some way. Iamabeliever, I will keep you lifted in prayer. May God bless and keep you.

You have helped me. This makes so much sense. I do not want keep going in circles. I want to give God the glory in all that I do. Thank you so much and your prayers are much appreciated.

Well, praise God! You are more thank welcomed.

I live with a nightmare memory that happen when I was 6 years old. I was sexual abuse from ywo family member, a Uncle and my oldest brother. The Christmas Holidays are not so joyful or cherful for me. My first sexual abuse happen on December 24, 1963. Only part is after that I was continuly abused throughout my childhood years. It wasn't un til I became an adult in my late forties that the abuse finally stopped. I do not get excited or look forward to the Christmas Holidays. I have memories of Christmas from Hell. I am 52 years old today.

sadeyes52 - I would STRONGLY urge you to see counseling to help you deal with the abuse you've lived with your entire life. Speaking from my own experience, you must learn how to deal with it and a good counselor will give you the tools to do that. You also must learn to forgive your abusers (yes, yes, I know it's hard - I've been there). Unless we can forgive those who have hurt and abuse us, we cannot expect our Lord and Savior to forgive us of our sins when we go to Him. Please, I beg of you to seek out a counselor you are comfortable with immediately. I will be keeping you in my prayers. I care.

Sadeyes52,
With tears streaming down my eyes, my heart goes out to you. I apologize for not being able to respond sooner, but I want you to know that God has given you the strength to reach out for a reason. This is an important first step especially since the day you reached out was on your birthday. Although your past was painful, I look forward to walking with you through this journey whether directly or indirectly allowing God to strengthen you to joy. Please, share with me what I could do to help you? Thank you, my sister, for your courage, honesty, and willingness to allow God to work in your life. I am committed to praying for you daily and to listen whenever you need me to. With Christmas right around the corner, I know you are going to need strength and support from those who genuinely care. I want you to know that I am here.

No, it isn't, and masturbation is not a sin, as you define it.


You are interpreting this according to your own prejudices, and you are far from correct in this.


Correction:
let's do a factual and accurate study of the word....


Given the age of the original document, and the number of times it has been interpreted, it's hardly surprising this has become distorted and mistranslated to suit the numerous authors' personal views....


Or how the reader chooses to interpret the meaning in order to enable it to conform with their own belief and conditioning....

I hope so too...in an open-minded, unbiased, unprejudiced, uninhibited manner.....



I think it would be extremely beneficial to the OP to broaden her research and view this link too.... and all sub-links therein mentioned.
The link provides an extremely well-rounded, unbiased and scholarly point of view.



This is your interpretation. This is not factually accurate, and is a biased opinion which is not necessarily a true interpretation of what you feel sexual sin, is.



this speaks of the man treating his wife like a useless piece of property to be discarded at whim.
it has nothing to do with masturbation.

The passage in question:

"Romans 1
29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them".

There is no mention made of fornication, let alone masturbation. This again, is your free interpretation of what you think the OP is doing wrong, but you are really completely awry with your supposition...



The biblical quotation you cite reads as follows:

1 Corinthians 5
Expel the Immoral Brother!

1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.

Again, what point are you making, exactly? What has this to do with the OP's concern about masturbation?



"1 Corinthians 6:18
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."]

This is so broadly open to interpretation, it could mean anything. Again, you are airing your own prejudices against masturbation, without any credible foundation at all.



"Ephesians 5:3
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people."

What is immoral or impure about masturbation?
There is nothing here to indicate that this is the sin in question, or that it is even a sin.
To make people believe that masturbation is wrong and sinful, has done more over the centuries to suppress natural sexuality and wholesome appreciation of our own bodies, than anything else.
To lead people to believe that such forms of sexual gratification are wrong, is misguided, damaging, destructive and prejudiced in the extreme.
there is nothing wrong with masturbation. in and of itself.



"Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall bring to nought both it and them. But the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body"

This is just ridiculous. This implies that all sex should be dispensed with, and the body given up for God's use only.
What rubbish....

The advice you have given is blinkered and ultimately damaging, in that it simply enforces the OPs impression that she is committing a sin by masturbating.

Her only issue is with repeated and habitual masturbation which is becoming an obsession.
But she is not wrong to masturbate, and neither is she wrong to enjoy it.
Enjoyment of one's body, an appreciation of what an extraordinary mechanism it is, and what pleasure we can both give with it and derive from it, is not a sin.

There is no guilt to be had, no shame to be felt.

I agree, that her BF should not have pressured her into masturbation for his own gratification. I would be more concerned with his attitude to her dignity and self-worth, than I am with her feelings of guilt - which are unfounded and unnecessary.
He is exacerbating the problem.
But he opened her mind to the enjoyment of sex and self-stimulation, and that is not a bad thing.
The Guilt, is the problem here - and she should not be feeling guilty for enjoying her body and the associated feelings she engenders.
To tell her she is being sinful will render her self-conscious, and inhibit her feelings, to the point of frigidity, if this does not cease, and become more balanced.
The answers you have given her, are not from God's point of view. They are yours, and are loaded with bias, prejudice and inhibited and suppressed instinct.
It would be best, iamabeliever, to gain several different points of view, and see whether on the whole people are more open than this.

because this is just one opinion. And I strongly disagree with it.

Inncidentally, I've posted reference to this post both on facebook, and twitter. so I trust you will let it remain and not delete it....

To Alexandra: Keep in mind that words will differ depending on which translation of the Bible one uses. The text you used was not from the KJV, but I believe Dountonia was using the KJV. To us Baptist, self-pleasure (masturbation) is as much a sin as fornication (sex between two unmarried people) or adultry (sex outside the bonds of matrimony). One does not need to get into lengthy word studies to know what God considers a sin. One need only read one's Bible. We were merely reaching out to an individual who has many issues that need to be addressed through professional counseling, not through a forum such as this.

I agree with Kathi, there are issues here that cannot be thorouhly addressed within the context of a forum. Not to mention, there is only one interpretation of the Bible but there are many applications; and based upon one's spiritual maturity and where they are in their walk with God the application may be different from Christian to Christian because God meets us where we are. But, as we grow and understand what God's will is, then the Holy Spirit works in us to sanctify us with the Word and our thoughts, deeds, actions change to become in alignment with God's Will.

Sex within the context of marriage is good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong because the Bible says it is. Although masturbation is not mentioned in the Bible, the act itself defies the original intent of sex as defined by God's word.

I have always found it interesting that the original (or older) definition of masturbation is self abuse. Sex should go beyond the temporary pleasure of body exploration. Is it possible to golify God while masturbating using the Biblical intent for sex? If one is unmarried, where do the images to arouse oneself to the point of stimulation come from? Definitely not your spouse because you do not have one.

When quoting Scripture, the entire context of the verse needs to be taken into consideration. Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How? need to be answered when reading paragraphs of text to gain a better understanding of what GOD intended for the reader. God's word doesn't always agree with what I think. But, if I love Him, I will obey Him.

So in other words, the advice given was from one perspective only, and not one from differing sources, thereby giving a broader view...I see....

"To us baptists". Therefore, not necessarily a broad-scope point of view but one possibly unique to Baptists. Which you should have pointed out, in fairness, to help the OP gain a more general overview.

Yes, I'm afraid you do.
for several reasons.
One, Doiuntonia started that one saying that such exercises were interesting and informative.
Two, because, as you pointed out, different Bibles say different things and are therefore open to different interpretation - which would have been a fair thing to point our, and
Three, because you just said that "To us baptists" it's a sin, and now you're saying it's what God considers a sin.
You can't have it both ways.
it's either definitely a sin as clearly instructed by God, unambiguously, or it's a sin because we baptists have seen fit to see it as such.
Which is it to be?


In that case, no attempt at all should have been made to answer the question, and the OP should have been advised immediately to do just that:
Seek professional counselling, because in spite of personal opinion and interpretation, this is not a place to discuss such complex and emotionally critical problems such as this one.

in that case, you should not have attempted to do so.


No there isn't, there are several...
in that case, you should have made that absolutely clear, and that this application was from your POV alone, and not an absolutely 'written-in-stone, unequivocal, inarguable fact.


I can only presume you assumed you were in a sufficiently advanced state, in comparison to that of the OP, to feel qualified to make such a personal and individual interpretation sound like solid instruction, then....


No, it doesn't. This is just a baptist supposition, because as I pointed out, you haven't shown anywhere that this is so.
you have therefore taken it upon yourselves as baptists to include it, for your own convenience.
I'm afraid you don't convince me. Not once, did I see the word masturbation in the context of sin, within the verses you quoted, regardless of which Biblical version you used.


Yes. A definition coined, no doubt, by religious authorities who chose to call it this in an effort to control the masses.
Sex is the oldest form of recreational activity on the planet. Unsurprising then, that religion should chose this as a stick to beat people round the head with. Nowhere, in any Bible, do the words 'self abuse' appear together, in this context. or any other, for that matter....


Why?
Who says?
Where?


Given that God's never had sex, why should he enter into the equation?

This is a strawman argument, and I have no idea why you've brought it up, or what your intention is.
Are you saying that whilst making love to your spouse, you would be focussing on God, somehow?
You're kidding, right?


Which at no point, you either did, nor did you clarify your thought process.
You just bundled 'masturbation' in there, and told the OP that this was a given...


No, and your words are not always in accordance with God's but that's what you wanted the OP to believe.
At no point in your post, did you indicate that this was your interpretation, and your Point of View.
Which was misleading, deceitful and manipulative.

Think about what I've said, here, and see how you might have misled the OP into believing something, simply because you say it is, that actually is a debatable and moot point. ....
Just think about it....

There is only one meaning that God intended for the writers He inspired to communicate to His people. Yet, there are many applications which people often confuse as an interpretation.

I cannot in good conscience based upon my study, understanding, and application of God's Word teach/advise/encourage ANYONE who asks whether in the forum, at church, on the street, phone, email, etc. that masturbation is an okay practice for the Christian.

I'm not suggesting you should.
What I am saying, is that you should be honest and admit that this is purely YOUR understanding and application of God's word, and on that premise, the OP should also investigate other avenues and sources, and also seek counselling of a professional nature for such an issue that causes such complete inner anxiety and anguish.
This was a subject of such high sensitivity, it really should never have been aired, let alone tackled on public forum, which is open to every and anybody to peruse.

As a senior Moderator on two different forums, I personally would never have allowed this kind of question to be aired.
And my motivation in deleting, would have been entirely for the OP's protection.
Please don't take that as a criticism. I'm merely speaking from a POV of personal experience.
I would even go so far as to suggest - or recommend, even - that you delete it now, even after this time has passed.
If I found it, anyone can....

Have you heard back from the OP? Has she reported on any progress?
I truly dread to think what state of mind she might be in now, if she hasn't.

Be well.
With much metta,
Alexandra.

Thank you very much for your concerns. I really appreciate your perspective and experience in forum management. However, the way I choose to facilitate this forum will be done so in a way that will include my worldview, values, understanding, and experience. There is nothing wrong with you or anyone else disagreeing with my position, but, I would never think of telling/suggesting/recommending to you how you should manage your forum or which posts suit my tastes.

And, you are absolutely correct. After the poster asked, I did share my understanding and application of Scripture because she addressed the question to me on this forum. Although I do welcome other points of views on this forum, this is the Baptist Forum and all responses from me will unapolegetically be from a Biblical point of view. Not to metion, I want people to find the post because my prayer is that people will start to ask honest questions about real life issues and seek Biblical answers to those issues for themselves.

I thank God that she had the courage to ask such a sensitive question. I would bet that there are probably many other Christians who are struggling with similar issues and probably people with similar concerns as yours. I will not hide/delete/ignore such concerns. Plus, I did have the foresight to enourage her to search the Word for herself and to seek counsel from her Pastor, a counselor, an accountability partner, or someone in her local church to help her deal with her issue on a more personal and thorough basis.

Again, I thank you for bringing your concerns to this Forum. I think that's what sharing our perspectives/opinions/experience is all about and (unfortunately) sometimes we may not agree. But, I will continue (whether people ask me or agree with me or not) to boldly proclaim the Word of God and to point others to Christ Jesus.

Alexandra,
I have been reading this exchange for a couple of days and was really interested in how D would respond. I am happy to know that I made a wise choice in reaching out to her. My initial reason was because her articles hit home spiritually for me. Now, I am glad to know that the same conviction and class she writes with is consistent with how she handles disagreements.

At the time of my original writing, I was not connected to a church. I have finally found a church home that is loving and biblical. By participating in outreach ministry, I found a man who loves and respects me and my body. I am learning the difference between just not having sex and purity. I want to live a life of purity while single and be able to give myself to my husband when the time comes for me to be married. There is a lady at my church who is helping me to walk in the faith and she really holds me accountable! Things are better, but I still struggle sometimes. During those times, I use bible verses that convict me and I PRAY REALLY HARD to keep from sinning against my own body. The guilt after doing what I used to do is not worth it to me plus it made me strongly want to do the real thing. So, I am learning how to view relationships differently, soak in the word, and TALK honestly about "sensitive issues" to people I trust.

So, you all see that my state of mind is just fine. All of the comments have me thanking God that my thinking and desires have been adjusted to align with what pleases God. If it wasn't for the forums and the ability to anonymously share secrets stuff with people, I could very well be stuck in a twisted relationship with a man who was forcing a sick view of god on me and my body. People we really need to get back to the bible -- it's not just a book but the voice of God, a guide that helps us to live life. Like D wrote, Christians really do need to stop pretending like they don't go through anything like I did.

Please everyone keep me in your prayers. D, keep on shining the Light.

Thank you so much. I will keep you in my prayers.

Well, I guess that's a wrap.....!

I moved on with my life I have nothing to do with my famiy or he n contact with them. Our own mther could not even go and visit my 51 old sister when she was hospitalized fighting cancer, my sister wanted our mom's comfort and on her dying days she asked for mom, when she finally passed mom didn't even have the decent to come to my sister's funeral to say good bye and pay respects to her daughter. I have forgiven them but they are still filled with so much hate inside. I am living my life and healing the broken pieces in my own way and with God's help and grace and mercy. God is first in my life. God is who I want to serve.

I have often thought about you and prayed for you since your last post. I am glad to know that you have moved on with your life with God's help. He is so faithful and so good.

You have my condolences for the loss of your sister. And, I pray for comfort and strength for you.

I have learned that healing and mending of the broken pieces in my life come by reaching out and helping others who have gone through what I went through. And, sometimes they are more of a blessing to me than I could ever imagine that I am to them.

I pray that you learn to use what God has allowed you to go through to help other hurting women to find their strength in God as you have. May your faith increase as you grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sisters in Christ

Dountonia, let me stick my sometimes unpopular little head in this conversation for a moment if I could. First of all I am so happy that such as personal issue such as masturbation or any other such personal information was talked about by this very REAL lady. Are we too self righteous to deal with someone who is asking from the bottom of her heart for help even on this forum? The fact that she is trusting enough to inquire of such a delicate issue would invoke within me a river of compassion. Every one of us has some very personal issues that we are afraid to ask or talk about. That is why so many of us are so stuck. I may not know many answers to many things but I know enough of Jesus to say that He willingly gave up his life to help us. Bless this lady for asking her question, and I hope that she finds peace from her inquiry on this site.

I pray that I am not coming off as self-righteous and if I am please pray for me. I sincerely desire to be more humble, to have a gentle and quiet spirit (and I realize that this is a challenge for me at times), and to genuinely serve Him with my all. I really do appreciate it when people have enough courage to ask/share delicate issues in any arena especially the forums.

So, thank you iamabeliever and sadeyes52 for your honesty, transparency, courage, and boldness for revealing personal issues from your heart. Your openness is an example for all Believers as we uplift and encourage one another as one body in Christ.

Prayerfully,

More than you know, I am humbled by your honesty and love. Bless You !!!

Today, I failed again. Please pray for me.

I will be in prayer for you. Stay connected to your church, your mentor, stay in the Word, and stay on your knees in prayer. There is never a time when Believers need to isolate themselves from the church or other Believers. We need each other to bear one another's infirmities while the strong help/encourage the weak.

One of my new favorite authors, Jay Wetger, from Frontline Ministries wrote: "Here is [Martin Luther's] formula for heroism and courage in dealing with sin and conscience: according to the Gospel, the believer is justified, yet a sinner. Therefore, he may be absolutely honest about his sin without jeopardizing his perfect status in Christ."

Thank God for His Holy Spirit that helps us realize that we are in need of forgiveness everytime we sin and thank Him that we are justified through Christ Jesus. Your honesty and fearlessness in confession and asking for prayer helps me to more real about my issues.

Sisters in Christ,

Being a nurse I had to look up masturbation and what troubles it may cause, I could not find anything (yet) that it can cause in a woman but it can cause prostate cancer in a male if he does it too much

I have been where you are and I learned; that type of behavior only gets worse. You are a Christian and sin (yes, masterbating is a sin) never fits into your life. STOP IT and repent(just tell The Lord you are sorry for pleaseing yourself instead of Him. And ask Him to help you put Him first in your life. 1st John 1:9 says, "if you are faithful to confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive your sins and cleanse you from all unrightousness." In His Love............ Prophet Don Fondren

There is a promise from The Lord that will help you. God promises in His word, that for every temptation He will provide a way of escape.When you are tempted to masterbate (at the very first thought) pray and ask the Lord to provide that way of escape He has promised.1st Cor.10:13. God is faithful!!! In His Love......Prophet Don Fondren

What we think, really isn't important. What God says, is important. For all of you that are wandering around in a spiritual fog, You need to meet Jesus Christ.He will not only change your mind, He will change your heart! In His Love, porphet don Fondren

Dear iamabeliever, You are a COOL courageous lady !! I am not an expert on scripture or too much Christian but I do know the one about (If you seek, you will find.) You are finding your answer and you will be just fine !!! Don't let your heart be troubled !!! You are not alone. The Source of all love coupled with the loving prayers of others will help you replace what you despise with some beautiful things.