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Actually what I think of women has nothing to do with my childhood and what has happened in my life.

If I would of been born a man and not being born gay I would of either decided to become gay or just stay by myself. What children and men have to go through thanks to many women is sickening.

Women's cruelty I find it is more harsh than the men's cruelty.

I know all women are not all like that (we both are not afterall) but again if I had money or/and something else important on the line I would go for men instead of women. Maybe one day before I die the majority of women (except for poor countries and countries where they have no rights) changes then I will change my mind about that, not before.

Susan,

My point is not to eliminate women from the workplace is to force them to do the same work as the men if they want to get the same pay.

I don't know for you but I would not want to pay two people the same pay with one doing the job he is paid to do and one not doing the same job.

Again equality is with everything not just with the pay.

Women need to show that they want and can do the same work as the men before we can all be trusted in the workplace.

Nancy -

I'm curious how what you think of woman could have nothing to do with what you have gone through. What else could it have to do with? The way we think about people is based on our experiences.

Here are my experiences.

I first worked at a tech company when I was in high school, run by a woman. Two of her three programmers were women. Those women worked night and day, dedicated, to get the job done. They were tireless workers. The woman who ran the company was brilliant. This was in the mid-80s.

I volunteered at the Hartford Atheneum, a museum. Many of my co-workers were women and they were dedicated, hard workers. They loved their job.

I got to college and worked at the Worcester Art Museum. Those women adored the museum and dedicated themselves fully to making it shine.

I dropped out of college and joined Cambridge Biotech, a high-end biotech company. Many of the scientists there were women. They were brilliant, dedicated, and they worked night and day to find the cures we were working on.

Then I moved to Biogen, another biotech. Again, many of the scientists were female. They drove themselves hard to find the cures and figure out challenging puzzles.

I moved to Banyan, a networking company. I worked with women there who were brilliant and who poured their souls into making things work.

I moved to St. Louis at BlueCross BlueShield where we worked with medical technology. The women there were absolutely amazing, developing a high-end system which allowed doctors to examine issues.

Back to Massachusetts, at ASA, FileMark, and XBR. I worked with women in each place who were intellectual, well read, and hard-core dedicated to making things work.

Then with BellaOnline I have met hundreds of women who are absolutely dedicated to helping their readers in any way they can.

I'm just not seeing, in any of my job experiences, where women "slack".

I'm curious - what jobs have you been at where women are "slacking"? I have never seen this as an issue in my 30+ years of working.

I know that many women work hard and can be trusted but as long as there will be laws in place and exceptions made for women to not have to go through the same training, do the same work, start working at the same time, stop working at the same time, have more break time, have more vacation time, retire before and have more advantages and money just for having children I cannot think that women are equal at work. This is just not fair and the women who are lazy (being nice here...the word i would like to use is censored here) will take advantage of this and we women who could do the work like it is supposed to be done won't have the opportunity to do it or even to show that we can.

This is just like the stupid idea that no man has any right to ever touch a woman. Women think they can do whatever they want to men and they won't ever touch them. They start a fight then yel I am a woman you cannot touch me when they are face to face with a man that is not backing down.

This in no way help us and help the women who are stuck in countries where they have no rights and are treated sickeningly.

I stopped counting how many times I was called a traitor to my gender just by saying what I am saying here.

Everything is called sexism and everyone is called a sexist if it does not fit in the "feminist" bubble.

My best friend (cannot tell you a personal work experience with a woman or women for myself because the only job i had was with my dads company and his company was him driving his garbage truck my mom being the secretary and i was the treasurer) was screwed over by a group of women at an important government job (she took a long time to tell me this since she knows my view on most women and she does not agree with me at all), they were very friendly in her face and she finally caught them by surprise making fun of her when they thought she had left and that not to forget that for the short time they were working on her floor they were not doing their work, they put the papers and documents in boxes and hid them in a closet that my friend found days after they were fired, she was left with months of work to do all by herself.

Then you have the countless examples that you can find on the internet of the behavior of women and the women who refuse to do the same work as a man but want the same pay.

Then you have laws made in place so that women can get away with crimes or get lower punishment just because they are a woman. Women who are believed just because they are women. People immediately thinking a man must be behind this to make a woman act that way.

Take the army in your country, they lowered the tests and most women cannot pass it! We are talking about the army here! This is insane! They have to accept women who cannot even do three pull-ups into the army! Millions of lives are at stake not to forget maybe more when in a war! Is that okay? I certainly think not!

I do not want women to have no rights or anything else like that I just want real equality which is not what is in place where you live and where I live.

By the way Germany is the only place where I would by choice choose to move to and it is the country I find to be the last remaining normal and sane country left right now and it is run by a woman, that fact does not stop me from loving that country.

Nancy -

I'm confused about women not having the same training or doing the same work.

I have worked for biotechs, for museums, for programming firms, for medical firms, and for other types of companies.

The women were all required to go through the exact same training. It's the law. They have to pass the same tests and earn the same minimum grades.

The women did the work required by the job. They didn't do different work. They didn't get more break time.

What type of a job has listed that certain workers get more break time because they have breasts? I've never heard of this ...? Is there a specific industry where they have different rules by gender?

It may be that you're looking at one tiny industry where the rules are different and thinking the whole world of working women is like that. In all the fields I've worked in, I've never seen the type of gender-specific rules you're describing. Is it a specific area of industry?

I also have to say that *nobody* should be grabbing, hitting, or assaulting *anybody* at a job. Male or female. If anybody hits any other person then absolutely they should be disciplined. This isn't a male-female issue. It's a human being acting professional issue. Men shouldn't hit men, women shouldn't hit women, and men shouldn't hit women. There's never any excuse for that, ever. So to me that's completely separate.

Lisa

Physically demanding jobs have different set of rules for men and women (no choice because women could not get these jobs). Firefighters, soldiers, cops and many other jobs have all lowered the bar for women to get in. Also take Tennis where women have to play two of three sets when the men play three of five.

I hate that women get jobs over men when they are not qualified to have them but for the jobs listed above it is more than unfair it is dangerous! If you cannot get a bag that weight fifty pounds up stairs in training how are they going to be able to go into a burning house and bring a human being out to safety?

As for extra break time for women there are many places where bosses have no choice to give it to women (pumping breast milk...being tired...whatever excuse they come up with to get more time off from work while getting the same pay...WOMEN with no kids pay for these women too not just men but apparently now if you listen to feminists you are not a real woman if you are not a witch).

Take the woman a few years ago who demanded classes in her university to start late because she bacame pregnant and had a baby, they actually did it for just that woman. One woman screwing up many people and several other women but hey a woman who whines have to have what she wants!