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Dear Lisa ,
Suppose ,I give you a way to get you to a point ,
others read it,and take different ways ,this is not unity ,this is chaos.
Last Nite while reading texts ,I came upon a lineage that denies the existance of Karma.!
Karma ,is one of the fundamentals of Buddhism.
I will try to find where and who wrote it.

loong

Dear Lisa,
Could not find the article that denies Karma,however one of the many branches of Mahayana is Nichiren that declared he was the new Buddha,Because of the understanding (his) of the Lotus Sutra.
Right after his death ,following are the names of 4 new lineages
that emerged .they are
After the passing of Nichiren differences between the various Nichiren Schools were relatively minor; nevertheless, the following schools formed around Nichiren's disciples:
The Minobu-School by Nikō
The Fuji-School by Nikkō
The Hama-School by Nisshō
The Ikegami-School by Nichirō
The Nakayama-School by Toki Jonin (Stepfather of Nitchō)

So if you say that that having so many divisions in beleifs,are a strenght,sorry,I will not gobble that theory.

loong
That could start his own lineage a mix of everything I have read.

to all or none,

Do not know if I have already posted this wonderful phrase.

The way we live is more important than what we beleive

Gretta Vosper.

To Lisa

Could you give me the difference between Buddha Mind and Bodhi-Mind

Thank you

loong part of oneness

I don't mean that every single lineage that has ever been started is necessarily founded on awakening. I don't know enough about Nichiren to comment on that specifically. Who are we to go through each lineage of Buddhism and declare whether it is valid or not? That is not what I mean.

What I mean is that Buddhism itself is meant to be a vehicle to awakening. That is what the Buddha was trying to create. And as you know, at first he was reluctant to teach - he did not think it could be conveyed. He thought each person had to find it for themselves. But his former mendicant associates begged him to teach, so he did. But he constantly warned throughout his teaching years that it wasn't about worship, it was about awakening, and that it was different for each person.

I do believe there have been many individuals who have awakened through Buddhist practices. And many who have awakened through various branches of other religions too. And within Buddhism, some of these individuals have created new lineages in which they shared their own practices. Of course, how helpful that lineage is several generations later depends on how many other have attained awakening within it. If no one has, then it becomes empty practices and debates. I am sure that has happened a lot. I don't think there is any way we could go through every lineage and say 'this one still has awakening in it, this one is just words'. But that is basically what happens.

But even though that happens, and there are lineages that perhaps are not helping people to awake anymore, it is a wonderful thing that Buddhism is founded on the goal of awakening. It is not about worship or debate. Even in those lineages that include those, they are meant to be tools to awakening. And awakening has nothing to do with intellectual debate or with repeating the words of the Buddha like a parrot.

What the many different lineages of Buddhism represent to me then, is that there are multiple ways to reach awakening, WITHIN the framework of the Eightold path that the Buddha established. Even his own monks did different practices and taught different pathways! He was not interested in having everyone copy or parrot him. That would be pretending to awaken, not awakening itself.

So there is power in the many lineages, because it means there is freedom. It is not about enforcing one way of living - it is not a top-down religion, where everyone is supposed to 'obey' certain rules. Within a lineage that may be the case, if that is part of the discipline of that tradition, but not overall.

It is like democracy - do we say dictatorship is better than democracy because there is unity? In a dictatorship, there is one person saying what everyone has to do and think - is that better? Authoritarian rule is very organized, and the rules are clear - is that the kind of power that you consider unity? Democracy is messy, but there is a power in that messiness, because it is based on freedom, diversity, open debate and public trust.

It is the same with the many lineages of Buddhism. Which again, does not mean every single lineage is teaching awakening, but I do not concern myself with that. I concern myself with my own awakening, and what works for me, and share something when it does. Judging other people's journeys is not my concern.

And yes, if you are awakened, you should start a lineage;-)

Dear Lisa .

Understood very well you posting ,and I am in accord with you that awakening is the goal ,nothing else.My buddhism,right now,
is taking something here something there,always regarding awakening and Karma.I hope we are o.k. with this.

For me there are 2 main lineages,Thera and Mayanara.Tibetan buddhism ,to me sounds like something coming out of a Typical Chinese drama.

With respect
loong part of the Oneness

Hi Loong, you meant Mahayana right? Since you like Thich Nhat Hanh, I wonder if you have read his commentary on the Lotus Sutra, in that he really gives his take on the birth of Mahayana, which of course includes Tibetan Buddhism. I am not sure what you mean by 'Typical Chinese drama', you will have to explain that one more. Chinese Buddhism was the foundation for Zen more than Tibetan Buddhism...

Dear Lisa,

Sorry ,you know my mind plays tricks on me.Of course I meant
Mahayana.
As for a chinese drama.You have never seen a true chinese movie with people flying .and numerous,deities.etc.
As mentionned earlier ,I am taking what suits my path.

loong
part of oneness

Yes, in form - in look and ritual - Tibetan Buddhism evolved from a combination of Indian Buddhist teachings and Bon, the shamanic tradition that already existed in Tibet, and that probably had connections to Chinese legends as well. But in terms of deities etc., Tibetan Buddhism probably shares more with Hinduism than Chinese teachings.

However, the deities and legends in Tibetan Buddhism are teaching stories, with many symbolic layers. And deity or guru meditation is a practice for awakening enlightened energies within ourselves - they are not a form of worship. They may be presented that way to children or beginners on the path, but to anyone truly practicing, they have multiple, symbolic meanings. The idea of 'exoteric' and 'esoteric' understandings of these legends is very important in Tibetan Buddhism.

Dear Lisa ,
you had the chance of having a Tibetab Teacher for many years, not so for everyone.


loong