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#800634 - 01/14/13 09:37 PM Vegetarism in Buddism
loongdragon Offline
Koala

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2200
Loc: Mont Tremblant,quebec Can
To all or none,

This is a subject of great debate , in Buddhism.3 out 4 lineages in the Tibetan Buddhism are not.Theravada what I have read being veggie is a must.I am sure in Mahayana lineages ,some are and others are not.I for myself,my office being at Mc Donalds,I force myself a few times a week to eat the smallest burger available.
Never any meat anywhere else.

The reason for so many veggies in Buddhism is based on the
first precept.Thou sall not kill,anyone not even the sentient beings. If I see Fish what comes to my mind is the way they sufficate to death,the chickens is worse,so are pigs.I see the animal being killed in my plate!


Also In the Animal realm ,some animals carry Karmas.

So who is Right and who is wrong?

loong
_________________________
loong


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#800839 - 01/16/13 01:03 AM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
Lisa - Buddhism Online   content

BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: loongdragon


So who is Right and who is wrong?

loong


Are these the only options?

I am not sure it is a matter of right or wrong. From a spiritual perspective, there are different paths. In Buddhism, it is about our relationship to our food, our interdependency with other creatures, and our recognition of that. In some traditions, strict vegetarianism is all that can do that. In others, gratitude for that which nourishes us, and a focus on ethical food sources and treatment of animals is enough.

But either way, it isn't really as simple as 'right' and 'wrong' because Buddhism isn't about getting rewarded for ethical behavior. It is about our awareness. If we truly recognize our interdependence with all beings, and the cycle of life, and that plants and/or animals die for us to live, and that this is true of all beings, and are grateful for that, that is what propels us down our path. Karma is our state of awareness. Someone can 'follow the rules' and be stingy and self-righteous in their awareness, and they are no closer to enlightenment than someone who has never practiced Buddhism. Less so in fact, because they have had the great good fortune to encounter the dharma and have used it to inflate their ego.

Also FYI - many Theravada traditions around the world have historically NOT been vegetarian, and are not today. It really depends on the country and lineage. I had recently read an article (but cannot find it now) that percentage wise, more Mahayana Buddhists are vegetarian than Theravadin world-wide.
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Buddhism Site
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#801161 - 01/17/13 01:03 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
loongdragon Offline
Koala

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2200
Loc: Mont Tremblant,quebec Can
Dear Lisa,

I have a friend that is crazy about her dog.I asked her if she would eat a nice juicy slice of her dog for supper.She said never.I asked her how come you can eat a slice of an animal without regreats.Her answer was,I love my dog,
So then In her case it all comes down to love of her dog.If she did not know it ,she would eat aslice.China just banned the eating of dogs in restaurant.
To me it is a question of love for sentient beings,is it not the choice of a Bodithsadva to renounce to Nibbana to come back to earth,to try to haveall sentient beings enlightened?

with respect
loong
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loong


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#801227 - 01/17/13 05:12 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
Lisa - Buddhism Online   content

BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: loongdragon

To me it is a question of love for sentient beings, is it not the choice of a Bodithsadva to renounce to Nibbana to come back to earth,to try to have all sentient beings enlightened?


Yes. But another way to view it is that we are all interdependent, including on the physical level, and that is how this plane of existence is set up. All things take in nutrients on the physical level that they need to survive from other living things, whether it is plant, animal or mineral. Recognizing that interdependence is part of Buddhist practice. So there is a way to intake food, including meat, and be thankful for it, grateful to the animal that has provided it, and aware of our interdependence with that animal. Some day our own body will die, return to the earth, and nurture plants and animals in return.

Of course one's view on vegetarianism is also partly dependent on one's view of whether humans are naturally omnivores or not. No one believes the tiger is evil for eating meat - it is just part of the natural cycle of life.

So interdependence and gratitude are part of practice, among those Buddhists who are not vegetarian. The other aspect is the ethical treatment of the animals being eaten. As you know, the Buddha was not vegetarian, he would eat meat when given it by others, and instructed his monks to do so also.

The practice for them was about not being part of the killing directly, and of course for some Buddhists that carries over into attempting to not kill any living creature, including spiders and other bugs etc. But as we know this is virtually impossible - we are bound to step on an ant at some point. So it is not about getting crazy, and there isn't some point system set up in some magic book somewhere keeping track of how many ants you do or do not step on. As you know, Buddhism is not about some karmic point system, or rewards.

It is about our awareness, and what practices open us to a true realization of interdependence and compassion. And some lineages do this through practices that include vegetarianism and others through practices that focus on gratitude and mindful consumption of any meat eaten. I think either way, it can be a practice that develops compassion, or it can be a practice that develops self-righteousness. In the first case, it furthers one's path, in the second case, it actually harms it.

It is like the story of the 2 monks crossing the river, which I am sure you have read. There is a young woman who needs help crossing, but both monks have taken vows not to associate with any women. So one monk refuses, but the other agrees, and carries the woman across. The other monk gets more and more worked up about this as they walk along afterwards and finally says, "How could you pick up that woman and violate our vows?" and the other one says, "Brother, I put her down a long time ago, why are you still carrying her?"

Which monk's awareness was in a more compassionate, awake place? The one who adhered to the vow in the strictest sense, or the one who did not, but did not cling to it? The point of this story is that any practice or vow can help or hinder us, awaken compassion or awaken self-rightousness, and I include vegetarianism in that. So it is about how we practice, not just what.

Just my humble opinion as you know!
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Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
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#801264 - 01/17/13 09:59 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
loongdragon Offline
Koala

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2200
Loc: Mont Tremblant,quebec Can
Dear Lisa,
I had written on my tablette a text, that I again lost.

So,Buddha mentionned to his monks to eat the meat of the alms,that I have known ,however if the giver of meat had specially killed an animal for the monk,he was not allowed to refuse the meat but as possible,change the giver,that I have read also.Not eating meat for me ,does not make me a better buddhist than any other.I was raised by a father that was a butcher,did we eat meat,he would eat a lot of raw meat,take the fat that we had removed and slurp it up.On tv the other ,I caught a glimpse on slaughering which I never watch.When they kill a horse,the horse must be dead after 1 blow,We counted 17 blows and the horse was still shouting.

The Ironman are more and more vege,even vegetalist!Knew about the girl story.One thing I had forgotten ,is when the first nations[in Canada]we used to call indians,would thank the animal killed for giving it's life 'so his family could eat,no part was waisted,oh and during that era there were no supermarkets.
Just my humble opinion also.

Oh I tried to squeeze the flowers between 2 letters,did not work.

WIth the outmost respect,

loong still learning
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loong


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#801488 - 01/18/13 02:55 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
Lisa - Buddhism Online   content

BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: loongdragon
would thank the animal killed for giving it's life 'so his family could eat,no part was waisted,oh and during that era there were no supermarkets.

Yes, this is very important to me also, as is fostering facilities that do treat animals humanely while they are alive, and that includes the quickest, most painless death possible. There are many companies focused on this now, but of course one must usually shop in special markets focused on natural, organic, holistic, and free range foods in order to find them. I am lucky that I do have that in my own area, and that I can afford to go that route. And personally, I do not eat beef, just some chicken and seafood. So that is how I have personally drawn the line. I was vegetarian for 2 years and it did not work well for me, for a variety of reasons.

So personally, like in most things, I am not dogmatic about it, I feel each practitioner has to sort this out for themselves. Of course, amongst Buddhists, some feel very strongly about this, as you know.


Edited by Lisa - Buddhism (01/18/13 02:55 PM)
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Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic

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#801654 - 01/19/13 07:01 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
loongdragon Offline
Koala

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2200
Loc: Mont Tremblant,quebec Can
To Lisa,and all

Tonite at Mc Donald tried a roasted chicken sandwich,thanking it to have given it's life for me and others to eat.The other day ate the smallest hamberger at the same place.

I had the same reaction,The meats tasted so bland,like eating sand.

With loving kindness to all

loong
_________________________
loong


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#801661 - 01/19/13 09:19 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
Lisa - Buddhism Online   content

BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Well honestly, yuck! If you want to re-introduce meat into your diet, Mcdonald's is the last place I would go! Of course there is no reason to introduce meat into your diet unless you feel a desire too. I hope you know all of my comments above were simply meant to explain my own view, and those of many Buddhists who do eat meat. I was not advising it for you.

But seriously, if you are feeling a desire to experiment with eating meat again, try to find something higher quality for yourself, and even free-range and/or organic if that is an option.

Good for you for being open-minded though:-)


Edited by Lisa - Buddhism (01/19/13 09:20 PM)
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Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic

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#805749 - 02/12/13 07:33 PM Re: Vegetarism in Buddism [Re: loongdragon]
loongdragon Offline
Koala

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 2200
Loc: Mont Tremblant,quebec Can
To lisa,

As I am writing,I am eating a Pizza with few slices of pepperoni and Italian saucage,Do not feel guilty.But Thanked the many animals who are part of these few pieces of meat.

loong
_________________________
loong


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