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edwardd1 was so cool. I am going to miss his amazing and awesome posts. It is almost miraculous that he was here at all to hang out with us.

Adios, edwardd1......


Debbie Grejdus
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Originally Posted By: LanceB.- Alter Ego
Since reprinting song lyrics is a copyright infringement (I did not know that but do now!), yesterday the "owner" of BellaOnline deleted the lyrics of "Faithless."


Dear Lance:

Two comments.

First, yes absolutely a song lyric is just the same as poetry or any other word-based composition. If an artist writes a poem, or a song lyric, that artist immediately owns full copyright to that content. Any unauthorized use of that content is subject to copyright penalties which can include an automatic $25,000+ fine.

One of BellaOnline's key missions is to train writers in all aspects of legally writing for the web. This includes proper use of copyrighted material. We would absolutely be failing in that if we then allowed plagiarism to go on in our own forums.

Second, I am the legal owner of this website. The use of quotes around that status would be inappropriate and inaccurate.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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Originally Posted By: LanceB.- Alter Ego
Speaking of the meaning of words, do any of you find the following examples of words to be confusing?:"Is a female sheep a ewe, yew, or you? When you accept something, do you except it or accept it? Is a surplus an excess or an access? When you get rid of something, do you exercise it or exorcise it? When you speed up, do you exhilarate or accelerate?" I don't and I suspect that most everyone reading RT do not ether. So, as to why the author thinks that those words are confusing I don't no as it gives me paws to ponder the whey in which those words were chosen as causing possible contusion.


I would gently point out that many of our readers DO get many of these words confused, based on the high traffic we get on our articles which help explain these kinds of common issues.

There may be a reason they are not posting, however.

I would ask that we not create an atmosphere where those readers feel embarrassed or ashamed about their status as learners of the language. Not everybody grows up in a household where literacy is encouraged. Many of our readers are only now at a stage where they are looking to improve their reading comprehension.

We want to make sure we do our absolute best to encourage and welcome those readers. This is one of our key missions for being here. We want to let them know that whatever stage of learning they are at, that is fine. It is perfectly fine if they get those words confused. We can help them improve those skills.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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While a recent post spoke about the over-reliance of "political correctness" in language, why is that in the USA in regards to professional sports in a few cases when it comes to Native Americans the opposite of political correctness is the blatant order of the day?

While no new teams or teams that are making name changes are being named after the indigenous peoples of the U.S., perhaps in the myopic and could-care-less-who-it-offends guise of "tradition" such team names as Indians, Warriors, Braves and most conspicuously, Redskins, seem to be accepted by the masses/hoi polloi rather than being viewed as anachronisms that should never have been allowed to come into being (let alone into the national consciousness) in the first place.

So, other than tradition what other factors are fostering the perpetuation of what I and many others view as an injustice to a portion of the population?

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LanceB -

You have spoken out quite heavily and passionately against the US as being a bastion of racism. Many of your posts imply that Mexico is a haven against that.

I think it is fair to say that Mexico has its own issues with racism -

Mexico and Racism

Mexico and Racism

I have been to Mexico many times and racism is extremely prevalent in Mexico.

Racism is not a US issue. It is not a Canadian issue. It is a world-wide issue. I believe the less we do finger-pointing and the more we realize it is something we are all challenged with, the more we might make some progress.


Also, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Atheism. This forum here is aimed towards supporting atheists, something I feel strongly about. To have it focus on country-bashing is not something I feel is in the best interest of helping draw in atheists.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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A freethinker is often defined as one whose beliefs are arrived at by the utilization of logic, reason, science, critical thinking and empiricism rather than the reliance on tradition, ritual, dogma, and authority.

Under what circumstances could some agnostics, atheists, deists and other skeptics or secularists not be considered to be freethinkers?

Under what circumstances could some theists be considered to be freethinkers?

Do you consider yourself to be a freethinker?

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"I think it is fair to say that Mexico has its own issues with racism."

I find the above statement to be quite true. In fact, below you will find the article that I wrote and published at BellaOnline on that very subject as it appeared online. If anybody can provide any contextual evidence that my posts suggest otherwise please provide such documentation. I do not know how anybody could surmise that I feel that "Mexico is a haven against" racism.


Racism in Predominantly Mestizo Mexico

For the first five years that I lived in Churintzio, Michoacan, I was the only non-Mexican living in that community that was, with the lone exception of myself, 100% all-different-shades of mestizo (a mixture of indigenous and Spanish heritage). So, of course, I expected to be stereotypically referred to as being that “gringo.” Yet, when it was called to my attention by my wife, Maria, that some of the townspeople called this Caucasian American expatriate “guero,” I was somewhat perplexed as literally “guero” means blonde/blondie. Now with the few remaining hairs on my head obviously being brown and with “baldy” being a more precise physical description of myself, I asked Maria why was I considered to be a “guero” and she replied that “guero” also can mean white-skinned. You see, in general, Mexican society, be it rich or poor, urban or rural or light-skinned or dark-skinned, is exceedingly color conscious to the degree that it is also can be accurately described as being racist, in addition to being classist.

With a population exceeding 114,000,000 people, the country ethnically is said to be comprised of approximately 80% mestizo, 10 % indigenous (although some sources report 60% mestizo and 30% indigenous/”almost” indigenous) along with 9% European ancestry/Caucasian and 1% “other” which includes Afro-Mexican and Asian-Mexican. Constitutionally, Mexico is an egalitarian country with the rights of its citizens protected against any form of racial discrimination. Moreover, as the unspoken rule, both officially and individually, Mexicans deny that racial discrimination exists; some maintain that how could it exist as “we are a nation of mestizaje/mestizos.”

Yet, even to an outsider it should be obvious that not only does racism exist in the country, but that it is prevalent. Overall, one’s skin color is the major determinant of that person’s place in society- educationally, occupationally, connection-wise and status-wise. Dating back almost 500 years to when the Spanish conquistadors' blood began mixing with that of the indigenous population, in Mexico lighter skinned people have been considered to be more desirable, more worthy and more beautiful than darker skinned individuals.

Just take a look at who is employed where. Generally speaking, the most sought after, best, most important and highest paid jobs are disproportionately filled by those that have the lightest skin. Lighter skinned persons dominate such professional fields as medicine, dentistry, engineering and architecture. The same can be said about the upper echelons of politics and in academia. Conversely, the lowest paying jobs and those with the least social status such as housekeepers/maids, construction workers, street vendors, restaurant kitchen workers, and public transportation employees are unfortunately the “birth right” of those with darker skin.

Nowhere is this racial/ethnic discriminatory dichotomy more visually apparent than in the worlds of entertainment and advertising. In the country’s numerous and popular telenovas/soap operas usually the lead roles are portrayed by light skinned performers with darker skinned persons normally portraying “subservient” roles as maids, cooks or gardeners or “villains” such as criminals. Television commercials and magazine ads almost invariably feature light skinned actors/actresses and models. This is so much the case that if one were only exposed to those elements of Mexican culture one could (erroneously!) conclude that Mexico is a Caucasian dominated country.

Yet, the form that racism takes in Mexico is decidedly different than that of its northern neighbor, the U.S. In Mexico there is no equivalent of the “N” word nor are there any hate organizations like the KKK or is there a history of discriminatory laws like that of “Jim Crow.” Rather, this overwhelmingly unspoken ethnic prejudice is not driven and perpetuated by overt racial hatred but rather by what I term “racial fatalism” in which the country as a whole lives more (resignedly) rooted in the past than in the present or future. Probably in predominantly Catholic Mexico it is also a fatalistic actualization of “si Dios quierre”/God willing. What the vast majority of Mexicans refuse to acknowledge or come to terms with (let alone speak about!) is that their self-perpetuating inter-generational “inheritance” is predicated on and fueled by the exceedingly racist precepts and ideals of their White Spanish conquerors. Consequently and sadly, by many in the country it is believed that if a dark-skinned person marries a light-skinned one that they are “estoy mejorando la raza”/making the race better.

The social consequences of this racism are enormous. For the minority indigenous people, on average, they are poorer, less educated, less empowered and have higher infant mortality rates than the mestizo population as a whole. For the darker-skinned mestizos, they also typically are less educated, poorer and lacking in social connections that may lead to upward mobility than their lighter-skinned mestizo brethren.

However, it is society as a whole that pays the ultimate price for this racism. Opportunity-limiting and hope-stifling racial prejudice are dooming the country, individually and collectively, in its decades-long yet illusive pursuit of becoming a fully “developed” nation. Only when all people, regardless of skin color, are allowed the opportunity to live up to their fullest potential, will the country have the opportunity to progress to the next level of socio-economic development. In order to do so, Mexico must do something that it historically has been unable or unwilling to do so. It must proactively look to the future rather than its past!

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Dear LanceB -

I will take this conversation private, as this forum area is intended to focus on helping atheists find a supportive community for atheism. To have other types of material here does not support that purpose.

In many cases this thread has been pointed out as holding material hostile to other posters, which is fully against our terms. I had been hoping it would self-regulate, but as it has not been, it is time to make sure it is handled more appropriately for our forum terms.

Also, I would ask that you remove the previous post, as it is duplicate content with this site - Racism in Mexico. As the BellaOnline training pointed out many times having duplicate content seriously damages both sites. I would not want our editors here damaged by this posting, and I would not the RacistReport to lose its rankings either. There should never be content posted in these forums which duplicates content found on any other site.


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Up until I read post #827746, I had no knowledge that my article was on the Racism in Mexico/Racist Report Site. As far as my removing the previous post, I believe that is not in my capability to do so as I am not the moderator of the RT thread and as such the editing capabilities for other registered members are only for, I think, one hour as long as no one else has posted in the meantime.

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LanceB -

That's a shame if RacismReport is actively plagiarizing content. Maybe it was an external person who posted the content, but still, they should be screening for that.

It is up to you either way. If you want to leave the content here that's fine - we can talk with RacismReport and have them take the content down there. If you're happy with it being on RacismReport, then I can take it down here. But we should take one or the other down, otherwise Google will heavily damage both sites. They are getting quite serious about plagiarism issues. I agree with their purpose - it just means an intense level of vigilance for website owners.

It'a always critical when posting content on any site that the poster be sure the content is unique. It gets harder and harder in our modern world of cut-paste thieves and spammers. Every day I'm deleting spam posts off this forum which were cut and paste from other sites.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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