How long indeed Burt....I agree with you and Dave. Mankind is foolish into thinking that violence will solve the problems that man has created.

Dave......great posts, as always.

This is how I see it: Man is here as an extension of the spirit. The experience we are having here is like being the functioning fingers on a hand, doing our own thing. What we don't see is the entire body, if you will, that exists. It is invisible, but it is huge and powerful. Man does not realize the power within, the power of the spirit that is our entire being, the whole. If we joined together with love and hope there is no telling what we could accomplish, what true harmony would result.

It is a comfort to know that the Goddess stands true and strong beside us. She has helped us for many, many years, and the least of us do see Her still. She has helped me along a very difficult path, and I continue to ask Her for Her guidance to find my way. I have known Her kindness, and when I am strong again I know She will back away so I can fly. She is a good Mother. Blessed Be.

What is spirit? Some call it God, Mother, or any numerous deitys. To me spirit is like a little bird. It is free flowing and has no restrictions. When one attempts to control it it flees.When one attempts to force it to act, it withdraws. When one attempts to define it, it eludes definition. We do not define its course. If we flow with it we flow with the life force of the universe. It is infinitely easier for the human to allow it to define our course. We cannot define it, it has its own course. It is our breath, our inner joy, our composition, and our residence.

When we quit thinking like cookie-cutter humans, bear with me a moment please, and start allowing freedom of thought, we will live longer and be happier. When we see the world as the great Mother sees it we will gladly yield our totality to its awesome possibilities. She sees no flaws in it. Paul even said," To the pure all things are pure. That was a spiritual statement not based upon the circumstances of the world around him just at that time in history. He had the foresight to look within.

If we quit finding fault we begin to lengthen our lifetime. When we quit judging we also relieve judgement upon ourselves. I believe that the most despicable of beings that has ever lived upon earth, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, to name a few, could possibly have been transformed from such devastation by a life giving influence being there at the right time. Look at the man who destroyed the lives of many people in that Mcdonalds restaurant in California years ago.He in turn was destroyed by the police in the end. The man was begging for help. He had no other way to go.

So many humans have everything in such nice little categorized politically correct packages with labels and anything else on the shelf must be discarded as it just doesn't fit. Because we just simply do not understand the healing power of "flowing with" and unconditional love in this culture we have closed the door to 98% of enjoyable living.

Spirit is that that is free from diminishing thoughts or activities. It has no time to opnionize or define. It just is. As we just Be, we flow with the great river of life. fear is gone. Then death truly has no sting but more importantly neither does life. Blessed Be

What is spirit? Dave, what you write about this is so very interesting to me. The way you describe spirit is the way I see destiny. So are the two, spirit and destiny so intertwined that it is difficult to separate them? It rather seems so -- I would love to know your thoughts about this.

I wrote a poem quite awhile ago titled: "When Spirit Meets Destiny". In the poem I questioned if destiny can be tweaked and if spirit is on its own course in life. The comments I received from others were very interesting. Many feel that destiny cannot be tweaked to suit our desires or wishes at any given moment.

What do you think about this, when spirit meets destiny -- or, is there no separation between the two?

Great points you made Dave, and very interesting.

I too believe that there is no form to the spirit, and it just flows. I was just trying to state that most people don't realize how much more there is to us than what we see on the surface.

The key to a better life is often a matter of changing one's attitude and opening up the mind to endless possibilities.

Hey Phyllis! What I saw as a young man with my "people" was not part of a time and space. As we entered into the "new" world we saw that there was nothing there except the completed human being, just not quite the same as the common man would observe. Spirit is without measurement, age, substance, as we know matter, and man is incapable of capturing or harnessing it.

When we say "God" we have automatically a predetermined "substance" in our minds. To many people it is automatically all about rights and wrongs, heaven and hell, good and evil, black and white, and on and on and on. When we spoke of God at home we did not drag mans definition into the equation. We refrained from using the word God not because we did not believe but more-so because of how man has used this word and its justification to create more division and heartache than any other word in the English language. I would not blame Him for leaving this sorry mess years ago. Who has a ear??

Back to spirit. It cannot be defined by human language.
I speak English and German and neither of those languages can rightfully define its reality. When, however, we are in the company of like-minds our speech,while using regular words, comes from a far deeper place within. We automatically reach toward an infinite area that opens a portal or removes the veil between worlds. Then we know the true meaning of the word God.
Our speech is then uncluttered with opinion, degrees, or temporalities. Every word then builds and opens bodily meridians. I believe it is what a little baby speaks until we teach them to speak in diminishment.

Let me try to put it into words that are better understood as it is difficult for me to sometimes say what I truly mean.

To be kind to each other is a free flow. It is a life giving nourishment that every creature on earth can identify with. The parent nurtures the little one to have it live productively when it matures. Love is a free flow. Pure love is a cleansing force. Jesus knew its principles and tried His best to teach some very stiff necked people. Some fortunately did hear Him. Those same people use that undefiled love today to guide a faltering world.

People say that he used some sort of mystical magic to cause blind eyes to see and to bring life back into the body. I do not know about all of that, well yes I do but that is not the point here.

I have proven in therapy that if I purely love the client and they come to trust it to the point that he/she learns to love likewise, sickness cannot remain. That kind of love is so foreign to man that he had to kill it and in so doing attempted to destroy one of the best examples of love that the world has ever known. He outsmarted them.

Spirit again is like the wind. It cannot be seen. Man can laugh at it in his ignorance because he cannot see it and yet its force can end his fleeting life long before his time. It does not need mans approval or direction. Man first needs to approve of himself and then all around him and then he inherits the direction that he needs..

These principles are not only taught within Christianity but also within many religions and even in non religious circles. Spiritual folks know the principles of just "being" where there is no time and space, and the eternal is now. Not five minutes ago or five minutes from now. Some believe that they are god, some are totally repelled at that notion. Some believe that there is no god.The spirit that I know is repelled by nothing. It just is and accepts all that is. In that place is rapid and complete growth possible and maturity guaranteed to each persons need.

Let me revert back to an earlier post that I placed.
The spirit is like the water in a bucket. Man wants to make his splash so he puts his hand into the bucket and stirs up all of the water. It goes back and forth, splashing against the sides and it is in total disarray.The hand has to at some point come back out of the water. At this point the water level returns to calm and peace just as if it always was so. He did little to accomplish his goal.. Maybe he should have just rested and learned to just "be".

It is joy unspeakable and because of such when spoken it is prone to diminishment. It is more of a knowing. One cannot search and find spirit. It cannot be earned. It is not just given out to certain individuals. It is within all of us. We can do nothing to find it nor can we buy it. We are overtaken by it by yielding and being open. That is how I see spirit. I am sure that there are others that have varied and even deeper and more profound examples of it. If so may they prevail.

Phyllis, I believe that some things are destined. Now, the forces that make such events come to pass may vary. It is destined for man to die. What length of time he has can differ due to many reasons. Some have told me that there may even be a few on earth that are centuries old. I do not know any of them but certainly would be open to it.

Probably if all the circumstances that govern time and space would get out of the way then the things that we consider destiny would instead be under our control and within our will? I can not say for sure?? I believe what Debbie has said is true. What we have within has unlimited possibilities.

Thank you Dave for sharing your insight. While I have not been active in this discussion I have come to understand my own spirit. My experience here is very limited however, I to find that it you acknowledge it and just let it be you will find that inner peace. It seems through my whole life I have looked to other people or things to satisfy a need for inner peace but now I know that I already have the peace I have been searching for I just need to let it be. Recently, I have become interested in gardening and have met a wonderful group of people who seem somehow connected to me spiritually. Something seems to be pulling me in that direction and I have found an inner peace there, so I am going to just let it be and go with the flow! I am sure there are many other who can share their experiences as well. Thank you for allowing me to share mine. Many Blessings to all.

Making Sense, You are so right on! It was there inside all of the time. I really am happy for your discovery! I love gardening also and it helps me identify with my agrarian roots. Blessings to you also!! dave

Thanks, Dave, for your reply and further details. You and I think much alike on many things and this gladdens my heart.

I had written that poem to see just how many people believed in spirit and destiny and was very happy to learn that many still do.

Spirit is my over-soul, my higher self, and destiny is the intended path in my life that I must follow by walking the middle way -- that is my task in this life. Sometimes I slip or take a detour, yet always come back to the middle way.

Blessings and Hugs to you, Dave my friend.

I slip and fall a lot Phyllis, probably more than most. It is easy to do these days. As you say we just get back up and continue. When I was young I was terrified to talk with others about spirituality, at least what I knew of it, and so I held a lot of stuff within. Upper midwest farm country was not the place to discuss such topics that were that "close to home". I am so thankful for you, Debbie, and others on here that we can talk openly about these things and all find our paths without fear. This place is like a beautiful home to me!! dave

It is a beautiful place, a home, Dave -- and I am grateful that the Mother, through you, opened the discussions up for us into what it has become, a home to share and learn from each other. It has turned into a home where we can share what is within us, to help others and to help ourselves grow ever more spiritual.