You're right about serial or repeting abusers utilizing choking as their preferred method. It leaves less evidence. The only other method that leaves fewer is emotional abuse...woman always coming last in a relationship but w/criticism after criticism. Just another form of control.

Every relationship has their secrets, but this type of person goes out of their way to hide it. They understand, legally and to friends and family, "physical evidence" is not their friend.

You mentioned "cultural differences." This, actually, I've been coming across more frequently with abused women, I'd say moreso in the past 5-7 yrs.

They meet online as talking pals saying they're lonely or simply always there then a romance develops. The ones I've been coming across have mostly to do w/eastern idiologies/religion.

The person usually leaves their country, comes here and what I've been hearing anyway some are being sought out to impregnate...then they go back to their contry taking the child/children w/them.

Whether children are involved or not, though, slowly the situation turns oppressive and the female holds back, trying to make sense being told, "They don't understand" and the woman continues to try harder TO understand.

It turns almost into mind control. The woman in turn situations are told they "have no rights."

But a true Spiritual religion isn't hurtful or abusive, it's loving, supportive and embraces all the beauty life has to offer.

Self defense, yes, it would be empowering and initially you may not feel you've the energy to do it, but it would help, down the road, if you ever DO have the energy and the mindset to leave for good. There's another reality waiting out there, it's just hard for it to present itself when a person uses all of their core to heal, just to be broken once again for the enjoyment of another person. IT's your power and only you can claim it back.

I met my abuser at 15yrs old , He was 24
I left home at 15 to escape the sexual abuse from my father who was still abusing me at 15
Well some would say i jumped out of the frying pan into the fire
The abuse has stopped now 50yrs after
Our children, and grandchildren are grown
And we are no longer together as a couple
But living apart we are best friends
He will be 75yrs old this year
I had a life time of abuse
I pray I will NOT aloud any one to abuse me again

Jilly, I for one never contacted the police about the abuse...first of all, I was WAY to scared to do that (in case they couldn't help, that would pretty much be a death sentence!) When I did leave and he kept emailing me/calling my work, I went to the police who said I could take him to court to get a restraining order (i.e. I'd have to SEE him in court to request NOT to see him). I'm sure some women are more brave than I was and do involve the police, but I never even considered it! I did think a few times about what would happen if I killed him when he was hurting me. I don't know what the laws in the UK are like regarding that, but I just assumed the worst (considering I'd never reported him to the police, and had never taken photos of any bruises, and never told a soul what was happening...what proof would I have that I hadn't just killed him for no reason?)

@ Jilly - police dont' show up instantly. Evidence is tough to get. In Alaska, we have a law that if there is any probably cause when the police show up, they have to make an arrest. this helps some, but still, having probable cause to the outside observer isn't always easy to get.
We also have a law that an additional charge is made for trying to interfere with reporting DV. so, if you call for help and your abuser smacks the phone out of your hand, or chokes you while on the phone, it adds to his laundry list. That is, if the police get there and get the probable cause. Alaska laws reflect what the rest of most of the nation is trying to do, so it is relevant to the overall audience of this forum. Much of Europe has tried to address the same behaviors.
So - I guess the way to sum up is actually understanding the power, control and manipulation that occur in DV. Until everyone in our society understands how to relate in an equal way, rather than getting one up over another, I believe DV will continue to exist in some form.

Rosie, I didn't know. I am sorry to hear about so much of your time spent abused. Hugs.

Hugs to all of you. You are brave women.

Lisa, you wrote:

"I guess the way to sum up is actually understanding the power, control and manipulation that occur in DV."

Maybe a key is to learn to identify warning signs before getting in too deep? I'd be curious to hear what those might be.

As for police not getting there in time, it seems like I would go straight from being hurt right to the police station, file a report and have them take whatever photographic evidence is visible. Start a record and date everything. Make a huge paper trail. Tell everyone.

Does no one do this?

Jilly, that's actually a really good point!

When I first met my abuser, he wasn't abusive. Steady job, athletic, enjoyed traveling. Before the abuse, I was very (hate to say it) but very Ghandi like in feeling, I'd rather be killed than to ever harm another entity.

Having been through it though, if I came into abuse again, which isn't likely, I've learned, you can't help someone that doesn't want to help or change themselves, no matter how much you love them.

But, at this juncture in my life, an abuser, if they unleashed on my or my child's being, would meet their maker and could take up their lame excuses over there... This time if I went down, all of Heaven and Earth wouldn't stop me from fighting back.

Having said this though, without evidence, that decision would land me in jail even though I was fighting for my life. It's self-defense, but,I know enough now to have a hidden disposable cell phone, cash on hand, call the police and absolutely have EVIDENCE!!!!! Go to the doctor or at least have a friend take photos.

Jilly, I am so glad you are asking these questions. Your questions are giving a great platform for those who have been through and gotten out of DV relationships to destroy misconceptions and pass on wise advice.

I really felt like I could change someone if I just loved them enough. If you stop and think about that, and really listen to it - I was putting myself in God's shoes, as well as not taking into account another independent humans choice for self-determination. It is my own personal spiritual beliefs (not necessarily due to any particular traditions I follow) that I had to learn a big lesson if that is what I thought. And I did.

Generally speaking, Jilly, your plan to go directly to police for photographing bruises, etc., enforcing consequences is good advice.

As for the warning signs, I have a list around someplace from the classes I took at my local DV shelter that has several warning signs. Once someone who was a victim really gets their eyes opened, its almost like we have radar to identify abusers.

Jeanette has a nice article that is quick read at http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art9585.asp

I will see if I can dig up my laundry list of warning signs, and if it is something I can post.

Oh, and I totally get what Elliese is saying about what she would do now. I would do whatever it takes to fully and completely sever ties and protect myself, children and loved ones.

okay, I went through my stuff and didn't see a specific laundry list. I guess we just wrote them on the board. A lot.
This link has them : http://www.northwestern.edu/womenscenter...ive-person.html

Early on, the things to really watch for are the quick involvement, unrealistic expectations, and blaming everyone else for how they feel.

The quick involvement is the relationship that goes really fast. He meets you, flatters you, wants to spend all of his and your free time together, and often pushes the limits physically as well. Example, if your kissing, his hands wander, you push them away, and two seconds later his hands wander again.

Unrealistic expectations - this starts out as flattery stuff, usually. He tells you your great, you make him feel wonderful, in fact, you make all kinds of things happen for him that are really not you. This has an over-the -top quality compared to normal rose colored glasses of new relationships. He gives you credit for his emotions way more than is possible.

Which leads into the blaming others. Nothing is EVER this guys fault. If he got angry, it was because someone else MADE him that way. An example warning sign early on could be getting super angry at the waitstaff at a restaurant for screwing up yours or his order, and the words are so often there. It's often "You make me..." Some abusers really sound like they are total victims in life - my ex is definitely in that category. His boss wouldn't tell him when he was supposed to show up for work, and thats why he got fired. He didn't win the contest because the female judges were all man haters and idiots, when in reality he didn't follow the rules. Abusers are rarely able to identify how they contributed to a bad situation, aside from "trusting someone they shouldn't have."

oh, and I have met guys who would tell me in the first 30 min of meeting them that they had DV charges filed or convictions against them. Some admitted to being stupid, and some blamed their ex-girlfriends. I got really good at asking to look at their Drivers license pictures to "just see how the photo looked" to get their legal names and run them in the public court records Alaska has.

A lot of the early stuff is manipulation to get you sucked in. Once you are sucked in, at some point, the nastiness comes out and reveals itself. You get angry, he tries to persuade you not to be upset by being on good behavior, and then the cycle goes on. Many victims feel that no one will believe them, and that the victim will be blamed.

After I left my ex, I found that almost everyone I knew disliked him and wondered when I was going to wake up.
My ex's mother still claims I am a liar and her son is perfect. I watched her son call her F***ing B**** on several occasions. She told me that he has threatened her physically repeatedly, but that it isn't a big deal, and I shouldn't have thought it was either. Publicly, she is all deny, deny, deny. No surprise really why he believes that behavior is acceptable.

Oh, yeah, watch the relationship with Mom. Lack of respect is a big clue. Even if they seem close, or not, just a major lack of respect is a possible clue.

Lisa, those are excellent cues. I can't see having the tolerance for someone moving that fast, or someone never shouldering the blame for anything. It all seems very insecure.

Maybe it's hard to detect when you are in it, but just hearing about it sounds like I would not like a man like that.

These signs - this is the kind of thing that should be taught to girls in high school. Why not? We are all pulled aside to talk about our bodies around puberty. I think this would be an excellent addition around sophomore and junior years.

I think it is difficult for some women to identify what is really going on. If they grew up in a home where they were taught that men are just that way or should be catered to, or that they should always be lying and supportive and then others will come around, then these women will feel that the early flattery and speed in the relationship are gratifying and not creepy.
I know that the middle school I work at has a young teen version that the kids learn about in their health class. The power and control wheel vs. the equal relationship wheel that are rewritten to apply to teen dating are reviewed.http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dsm/dviolence/links/pcw_teen.pdf
and http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dsm/dviolence/links/ew_teen.pdf
I think sophomore and junior year of high school nationwide should be a minimum, for boys and girls. the boys need to know the expectations, and get good grounding in equal relationships. In areas where the DV rates are sky-high (like Alaska), equal relationship skills needs to be integrated into the school environment, similar to a lot of the anti-bullying stuff that is being adopted. The two things actually dovetail together really well.
So, there is hope for future generations! The information on what healthy relationships look like is available, its just getting people around to thinking like that.