I have a friendship with someone that I am letting ruin my equanimity. I love this friend a great deal. He now has two girlfriends who want to spend all his limited spare time with him and I feel pushed aside. I have been acting all aggrieved with him lately over it, which does not help. I feel like i am begging for scraps of attention. I don't want to feel like this.

Do I stop interacting with this person until I figure out how to not suffer over our interactions?

Jilly.....if you are feeling aggrieved over him spending time with other women than perhaps you feel more for him than friendship? If this is the case then you should be honest with him and yourself and let him know.

If what you want is more than what he wants, then perhaps you need to take a break to let the feelings cool a bit. Can you truly be just friends with him in this situation?

If you are not sure what you want with him, then a break may be just what you need to figure out what your true feelings are for this man.

Just my opinion. I like dealing with relationship issues head on.

I am actually not looking for friendship advice. Just a more buddhist way of dealing with this kind of thing. So basically I am using this as an example type of situation.

Thank you for your thoughts, though.

I thought dealing with the situation directly would be the easiest way to obtain peace with it.

Perhaps Lisa-Buddhism has some helpful advice for you.

I know what i have already done, and it's been exactly along those lines. I don't like talking about it; it upset me from not going the way i'd wanted. As you probably know, i am exactly like you when it comes to dealing with personal things head on. Anyway, it hurts to go there so i am moving on from that.

I am really wanting to use this as an example of how a buddhist would handle it, more like a hypothetical. I don't know what a buddhist would do.

So i guess i can put this as a hypothetical question. I am wanting to explore buddhism. Would a buddhist not see this person or contact him until she came to a place of no fetters about it? How would a buddhist see fetters like that? How do i dissociate from these cravings?

Engage yourself in something that totally takes your mind off him. Like yoga or something.

Jodie, i totally appreciate what you are saying and I thank you. I am looking more for the actual Buddhist approach to situations like this.

Hi Jilly, sorry I didn't see this earlier. I don't know if there is really one specific way that Buddhism would guide someone in your situation. There may be as many opinions as there are Buddhists:-) (Just like any other philosophy or religion I expect.) But based on some of the other threads you've been involved with here, it seems to me you are really asking about how to work with difficult emotional 'triggers' such as this, and in particular, what advice Buddhism might have for someone experiencing a desire related to someone else (whether it is platonic or romantic.)

In the lineages I draw on the most, which are Mahayana lineages (and that includes Tibetan Buddhism), we work with our emotions. What I would personally do in this situation is inquiry work, although that might not be exactly what you are looking for, because it is somewhat similar to what Debbie was saying - looking inwardly very carefully to 'unpack' the layers of emotions around what you are feeling. Why such a strong need for attention from this particular person? What does he represent? Why feelings of possession, i.e. jealousy at the attention the other women are getting? What do they represent to you (i.e. in your mind, do they possess qualities you fear you do not possess, and so are a trigger for you in that way)?

The first step in Buddhist inquiry is always self-understanding. That is why there are actually a lot of Western psychologists who draw on Buddhism in their approach. Anger and fear are very often at the root of our surface emotions - they are core emotions of our ego when it is gripping.

From there, though, Buddhism asks us to go deeper - to really look at these emotions and understand their roots, and in particularly to see for ourselves that these emotions are not at root who we are. You can ask yourself, 'who is it that is seeing these emotions and doing this inquiry work?' What or who is that part of me? This will take you deeper into your awareness beyond your emotions and triggers.

That is not always something that we can get to right away however. The various mindfulness and meditation techniques taught in Buddhism are tools for helping us calm ourselves enough to do this work. There are many different approaches, so I think what meditation approach works for someone is very personal. I know you are deeply connected to nature, so a long hike in your favorite spot may be a great starting point.

I really like Pema Chodron on this kind of work, you may want to check out her book Taking the Leap (which I actually reviewed last year.) It is a straightforward little book for dealing with our 'shenpas' or 'hooks'.

Lisa, thank you for your comprehensive answer, but i am afraid this is also not what i was looking for. Like i mentioned before,l I have done significant soul searching about these questions, and i have my answers. I just don't wish to beat that horse any further by going into it. I have to deal with the pain of this and that is that.

Can we take me out of the equation completely, and not have this be specific to what I said at all? More of a way to dissolve fetters and cravings?

In my limited understanding of Buddhism (but with an understanding of similar Asian religions), I believe that what a Buddhist strives for is:

1. Unattachment
2. Freedom from desires

In other words, there is an acceptance of what is. Without an attachment to any particular outcome. Just to experience this moment.

When one releases the ego (personal desires of any kind, including the desire to be loved or to love), then there is no disappointment, rejection, pain or even loneliness.

It's always been interesting to me because while it does remove certain aspects of human suffering, it also removes the very conditions that allow us to experience being human. Being human involves a vast range of emotions. The good, the bad, the ugly and the downright sucky. But also, the sublime! Buddhists are encouraged to learn how to simply observe oneself without riding the vicissitudes of life.

Anyway, it is said that desire is the cause of human suffering.

As for how to control one's cravings? I just replace them with other cravings for better things. Remember I told you that the Universe has a way of helping you filter out people who don't need to be in your life.

Lisa....I am glad you weighed in on this. I found your explanation very helpful to me personally, and I think I may look into the book you mentioned. It looks like a book that will address some issues I have.

I find that I can be susceptible to "hooks" at times, and I do not like the way I feel when that happens, especially the rise in energy level inside myself. It feels negative to me, and I would like to learn how to deal with it better when it happens. Thanks very much!

Yes! Thank you, Lori. This is exactly the kind of conceptualizing i am looking for.

How to do THAT? Release the ego and the fetters and cravings. Putting myself outside the picture. I don't really exist anyway.

I do have a minor degree in psychology, so I am not new to the western ways of handling these things. I really am seeking something i haven't been exposed to before.

This line of Eastern philosophy suggests that when you align with the One, higher motivations take root and supersede individual desires.

I would encourage you to meditate to connect with your higher self. Our lower selves do all the craving.

Why do you say you don't really exist?

Lol, that is along the line of something Loong said.

Where is he, anyway?

Hi Jilly, I agree with everything Lori said. The funny thing is I was actually trying NOT to say that, as I thought you wanted more of a 'how'. What Lori said is certainly the philosophy of Buddhism - the 'what' - and I would personally say almost any spiritual path to some extent - when we are fully aligned with Source, we know ourselves as the 'ocean' rather than the 'wave'. So each emotion, desire, attachment, is a wave, and we are able to dwell at a deeper level within ourselves, on the calm level of the ocean beneath the tumultuous waves.

But I think you know this as philosophy already, and what you are really asking is how to actually experience it when in the midst of an emotional 'wave'. The 'how' in Buddhism is not all that different than the 'how' in psychology. There is no magic bullet. You have to work through what is going on, understand it and yourself. There is no meditation or mindfulness technique that just makes it go away. They can help calm you in the moment, and that can help you work through the issue, but there is nothing that just makes the 'hook' disappear.

So when I spoke of the inquiry work, and then moving that into a really deep understanding of the transience of these emotions I really meant it as something you DO, not think. Does the difference between those two make sense? It is hard to talk about these things in forums sometimes, which is why so much of Buddhism is taught face to face, teacher to student. To DO this, to truly sit with an emotion as it arises, inquire into its roots, and seek to release it by letting it flow on through you rather than attaching to it, is the true practice of Buddhism.

It is this last step that is truly Buddhist - once we have understood the emotion and seen its roots, we are able to let it flow on through us, like a cloud in the sky. You already do this with hundreds of smaller emotions each day - I am sure you are able to push aside a small irritation. That is what looong was talking about in another thread when he said 'just say NO' to the thought or emotion. That works with day to day things that come up.

But usually with ongoing hooks/triggers like you are describing, the process is a little more involved. This is when we do need to work with the emotion psychologically first, and really understand it as part of a personal pattern. When we really reach the point where we understand it in entirety, we will be able to sit with it, let it arise - and then let it go. So really, you can use your psychology background in this process.

Is that more clear?

P.S. I PM'd you re: looong.

Thank you, Lisa, yes, this is exactly what I was looking for:



I can work with that!

That's why i brought this up in the buddhism forum. I think I can learn some very important things here. I am tired of hashing around my mind in the Western way. I have always worked towards understanding the deep psychological underpinnings of myself and the things I do. But it can only take me so far. Getting something intellectually is not the same as flowing with my emotions. I believe I can get off life's emotional carnival ride, but lack the tools.

Now I find myself saying, "yeah, I know the why. I have trained myself to delve within. Now someone show me what a Master does with that awareness."

You might also like to look at the integration of General Semantics with Buddhism. Infatuation is very similar to PTSD in some respects and you might find this approach useful. . For a better overview of the two systems and their congruences this article is useful and has some relavant links

For a more narrative introduction to General Semanics the Null-A books by A E van Vogt are quite good. I didn't really notice the flaws quoted in this link, but then again I was just reading for enjoyment.

Hello Lori,

Thankyou so much for this answer and post and information and approach. Stunning and oh so pertinent for me to use in a different way and for a different set of circumstances. It is going to be life changing for me.

Thankyou for asking your ask Jill and to other people, one and all, who have responded too. I have read what you have all had to say and absorbed it all. I do so wish I could say more than just thank you. But there it is then.

Best thoughts

I'm coming into this late and I'm not certain if this is a projection that may help or not.

From the Self-perspective, a longing, per-se, could be understood as a birthing. The significance is actually positive, not so much with the other person (s) involved if there are any, but more a sign or signal the Soul is now ready...urging (labor of sorts), contractions (??) for greater embodiment of the life/Soul experience.

It comes across, like walking for a time through baron lands. A land (station in life) either outgrown or one that hasn't seen the resources for some time to live as vitally or fulfilling as a person may have desired, even in doing all the right things.

The pangs indicate, something changing, not loss, but indicative of a new station/season, elements available within aligning the Self for that which can now begin to draw even greater alignings which in turn bring forth that which the pangs set in motion. The birth, the green meadows...

Ian, that is awesome. I completely feel the rightness of this - it's something i've always acknowledged. Maybe I can try to compartmentalize the world of the words that I have with this issue.

The word is not the thing. Of course.

Elleise, that is exactly it. This person has been like a way house on the moors - someone who understands my limitations, likes me anyway, and makes me feel wanted. He's been almost the only one. So i have been clinging to that b/c of my beliefs I would not find another way house.

I think he does not have to fulfill that role any longer. I think I might have grown a little lately and believe there are other way houses. At least I now see some in the far distance.

Thank you!

Some great stuff surfacing here, from everyone.

I personally also work energetically, which is not part of all Buddhist traditions, but is part of the Tibetan ones in which I originally studied (as well as being part of some others.) That is, once I can clearly 'see' the issue within myself - which begins with the psychological understanding that it sounds like you already have a good grasp of - I can sense it as an energy that is 'stuck' somewhere. Once I can feel this as an energy, I will work within my awareness to release it on the exhale. A simple inhaling of clear awareness and exhaling of this stuck energy as part of my meditation is very helpful.

There are many more specific energy work exercises related to the chakras that I personally do, that have to do with locating the energy relative to them, but that work is not strictly speaking Buddhist, so I don't write about it much here. And I don't think it's really necessary to do this kind of work if it appeals to you.

The most important thing for it to be effective is really the 'selection' process - that is the locating of the feeling/pattern/energy within yourself as an energy. You begin this mentally/pscyhologically, but then move beyond that, into your subtle awareness.

If I might venture another thought...

Some sects endeavor to cut off ego-type desires in order to avoid suffering.

But it is part of this human experience.

For me it is better to embrace what is and learn from it. I find that when I learn the lesson, the scenery and situation change and I am onto other lessons. Ask, "What can I learn from this?" Sometimes, I view it in a third person sort of way. "Wow, that was an interesting experience. Now I know what (insert your feelings here) rejection/pain/sorrow/hopelessness feels like."

Both positive and negative serve their purpose in our lives. Hard as the "bad" times are, everything passes. Sometimes, there is nothing to do but be patient.

This might sound loony, but I "rise" above the human experience when it gets too hard or overwhelming by reconnecting to the universal consciousness (God), and I am reminded that I am a spiritual being having a physical experience. I can make better choices from this vantage point.

Lori, that reminds me of a little passage i keep in my wallet. It is the Litany Against Fear, from the novel Dune.

It has echoes of what you say. It's not easy to do what it says, but the idea of it is comforting.