"Relativity applies to physics, not ethics."
Albert Einstein

of and from another great mind...

"Morality is neither rational nor absolute nor natural. The World has known many moral systems, each of which advances claims universality; all moral systems are therefore particular, serving a specific purpose for their propagators or creators, and enforcing a certain regime that disciplines human beings for social life by narrowing our perspectives and limiting our horizons."
� Friedrich Nietzsche

"Relativity applies to physics, not ethics."
-Albert Einstein

of and from another great mind...

"Morality is neither rational nor absolute nor natural. The World has known many moral systems, each of which advances claims universality; all moral systems are therefore particular, serving a specific purpose for their propagators or creators, and enforcing a certain regime that disciplines human beings for social life by narrowing our perspectives and limiting our horizons."
� Friedrich Nietzsche

or of and from a person who was not known as a "great thinker" but who was known for his "common sense"...

"A person who is fundamentally honest doesn't need a code of ethics. The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are all the ethical code anybody needs."
-Harry S. Truman

From my self-centered perspective, it is still not "safe" yet to paraphrase a very unethically-themed movie, "The Marathon Man," but what the heck...

"Relativity applies to physics, not ethics."
-Albert Einstein

of and from another great mind...

"Morality is neither rational nor absolute nor natural. The World has known many moral systems, each of which advances claims universality; all moral systems are therefore particular, serving a specific purpose for their propagators or creators, and enforcing a certain regime that disciplines human beings for social life by narrowing our perspectives and limiting our horizons."
� Friedrich Nietzsche

or of and from a person who was not known as a "great thinker" but who was known for his "common sense"...

"A person who is fundamentally honest doesn't need a code of ethics. The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are all the ethical code anybody needs."
-Harry S. Truman

or of and from another great mind, Peter Albert David Singer an Australian applied secular ethicist...

"More often there's a compromise between ethics and expediency."

"At the descriptive level, certainly, you would expect different cultures to develop different sorts of ethics and obviously they have; that doesn't mean that you can't think of overarching ethical principles you would want people to follow in all kinds of places."

or of and from another great mind, Albert Schweitzer...

"Ethics is the activity of man directed to secure the inner perfection of his own personality."

You have very rational random thoughts, Les.

Thanks Conny and hi all,

Hopefully what I am doing is "ethical." I just want to let you loyal followers of "Random Thoughts" (in the last 23 three days RR has averaged 343 views with very little new content which just boggles my mind) that a new thread has been started as promised for the A/A forum, Non-Random Ethical Thoughts. Just to be ethical, I want to let you know that in my first posting there, some of the content included was originally posted on RT. I hope that you will take the time to take a look at it and, miracles of miracles, even post your thoughts and questions on it.

What the heck is the "Adult Model" and what does it have to do with ethics? I will be talking about that the next time I post on N-RET.

In 2006, Bill Moyers, filling in for Charlie Rose, conducted an interview with Daniel Dennett, a philospher and cognitive scientist and one of "The Four Horsemen of New Atheism."
A very thought provoking interview for people of all persuasions.

If you would like to view it, go to the Charlie Rose Homepage and look under TOPICS and then LIFESTYLE on page 4, 4/3/2006.

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.�
Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Hola Monsieur!

Ah - there is too much to think about I think. Why not put it on a diet and focus of one aspect or so? Maybe a miracle will happen?

How about leaving out religion for the nonce and just focusing on ETHICS. A good definition to start will be an helpful springboard. Just a thought.

Cheers,

Hi Lestie and all,

Lestie, please do not forget that this is the A/A forum, so the quote from Robert Pirsig is relevant to say the least.

However, Lestie to accede to your wishes about an ETHICS discussion, the following is a post that I entered on a different thread in A/A on 8/2/2011.


Do you have a personal code of ethics?
If so, what is it?
How did you arrive at it?
Is it fluid or fixed?
Is it absolutist or relativistic?
Do you consciously apply it day-to-day?
Does expediency ever factor in whether you utilize it or not?
Do you think that it is applicable to all cultures?
Do you feel that you are doing the best that you can in living up to it?

Next, I am making an assumption that if you have a personal code of ethics that you have incorporated some of the following tenets into it:

From Richard Dawkins, his own TEN COMMANDMENTS:

1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

From the Bible's TEN COMMANDMENTS in abbreviated form:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

5. You shall not dishonor your parents.

6. You shall not murder.

7. You shall not commit adultery

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not commit perjury.

10. You shall not covet.

From the Golden or Silver Rule:

1. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
2. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.

From Shakespeare/Hamlet:

To thine own self be true.

From The Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism in which #'s 3-5 encompass ethical conduct:

1. Right View Wisdom
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech Ethical Conduct
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort Mental Development
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration

From the Five ethical categories of Islam:
The obligatory
The prohibited
The supererogatory
The disfavored
The indifferent


In your personal code of ethics do have you any tenets that you have incorprated that were not covered in the above?

A couple of mine that I have incorporated are what I call
"The Adult Model" and the "Integrity Rule."

Hi Les and others and all,

So sorry but I did not mean to upset the applecart in anyway. In a previous post here you wrote

" ... I hope that you will take the time to take a look at it and, miracles of miracles, even post your thoughts and questions on it..."

What I meant was from my approach, what you were asking for was too much to discuss at the same time (for me!) and so I chose just to highlight one small part of it. Thereby I thought you would get a snippet of miracle!

Unfortunately I have not been back to and/or did not go back to the A/A website or forum posts to refresh my reading and apreciation of what had already been covered, though I should have remembered how much ground had already been traversed there on the subject of ethics and 'right and wrong' thinking, actions and life values etc. etc. and so on. I have never really understood Atheism and Agnosticism anyway. Doesn't matter how much I read - it's like trying to teach me math - just do not have a mathematical mind.

I guess I thought that if you focused on one part of what you posted before the Robert Pirsig quote, that you would get your miracle in that people and a new public would post thoughts.

And then it seems that a lot energy of Atheism is spent on speaking less of Atheism and more on the 'delusion etc.' of organised religion. This is why I suggested that the 'religion' part be left out to start. My post was not clear and sounded poor and muddled(?) on re-reading it so do apologise completely and without hesitation or reserve for trying to make it too simplistic.

It is easy to see the state of my brain and thinking! Oh dear, because it was too much for me I assumed it might be for others and that was really not a good assumption to make. Never is or was or will be. One always has to guard against passing over personal values and thoughts and understanding and all and all.

Still, everyone in my book, without exception, and individual religions notwithstanding, has his or her own interpretation of God, or non-God no matter what He/She is called or in what religion He/She is to be found or not found.

Anyway, to stop this rambling fuzziness I will sign off and say again am sorry for my misunderstanding of what you were trying to do! Mea culpa.

P S Never did understand that Pirsig quote. What has delusion have to do with insanity and religion and values all in one sentence? Where does simple faith fit in? Is he saying that being devout in accepting 'a God' into one's life is delusional?

Oh now I am getting tongue tied so will certainly end. I have lost the plot so will bow out with a semblance of grace and a smidgeon of dignity I hope!

Cheers