BellaOnline Forums Home and Garden Organization Living with a Mess-Hater

It can be a struggle to get organized. Life tends to create chaos. It can be even more of a struggle when your partner in life is not appreciative of how hard the challenge is, and is less than helpful / supportive in the process.

In my case, Bob creates messes. He doesn't pick up after himself and the living room - "his room" - can barely be walked through. There are piles of stuff everywhere. He has expanded his garden stuff (leaf blower, garden supplies) all over the floor of the dining area so we can barely sit two people at the table. The kitchen counters are covered with stuff (he does the cooking). His half of the bedroom is a giant pile of clothes.

So when I try to organize, it is draining to see all of this and know that either I shouldn't be touching his stuff or that if I do clean it it will just revert. I know I posted photos a while back when I was so proud of getting a few rooms clean. Now they're all giant messes again.

But then some have the opposite problem. They have a partner who hates the mess and actively complains about it. Wouldn't it seem then like they should dive in and be actively working on clearing out the mess, if it's important to them? What is the dynamic there?

Wow Lisa, I am feeling your stress over this situation. It's actually one I have seen hundreds of times.

It should be noted that there is a big difference in being organized and being tidy. Really organized people can have really untidy spaces. Just as disorganized people can have what looks like a minimalist space.

However, when it comes to communal spaces it doesn't matter if the distressing physical condition of the space comes from a partner's messiness or disorganization. What's almost always lacking in these cases (where two differing ideals about space management radically conflict) is clear communication that results in a mutual agreement about how the shared spaces will be managed.

One partner cannot organize another. Yes, you can pick up after another, but why would you on an ongoing basis? Wouldn't it be better all around to have a conversation that resulted in a resolution you can both live with? It's not healthy to allow a situation that so negatively impacts you to continue.

To be clear, this doesn't mean Bob needs to agree to become a super tidy guy. It could mean that he gets one room to call his own and it can be left in any condition he chooses. That would also mean you would have to accept that. But, the shared spaces would have to be kept tidy enough so you feel comfortable. The 'enough' part is important. You may have to give a bit on what enough is, just as he will have to put in much more effort than he is used to bring it to that level. For this to work even better, you should also get a space that will be kept just as you want it.

I regularly work with families that struggle with this issue. Some family members are naturally neat, some not. It causes conflict because both feel the other should change. The reality is both need to change, there needs to be compromise and there needs to be respect for the different needs each family member has. Respect is always important. When you know that something is truly bothersome to a loved one, even if you don't understand why, you need to honor that, not dismiss it as ridiculous, stupid, or wrong. When everyone involved adopts the respect mindset it is much easier to come up with an agreement that works.

I could easily go on about this topic, but I have been lengthy already so I will end by just reiterating that it's the communication that matters. Too often we think people know what we are feeling, but they don't. We go on thinking why don't they change and they go on wondering what the big deal is.

Dear Kelly Jayne -

Thank you for your kind and helpful words! He does have an office upstairs but it is literally so filled with junk that we can't take a step into it. The junk comes right to the door. There are numerous boxes in there from his work office where he was laid off I think 6 years ago. So I think it's emotional, that he doesn't want to deal with that stuff. But it means that "his room" is inaccessible and cannot be used.

So therefore he has taken over the living room, where he is all day. That is the main room one walks into when one enters our house, and it is jammed full of stuff all over the floor and in piles.

My office is off the living room so I have to go through it to get to the kitchen. I admit my office is not "neat" but at least I can walk through it.

Thanksgiving is coming so one concern is that the dining room can't even sit 3 people right now - and my father is coming over. This causes me stress, that we can't even fit at guest at our table right now.

But with both of us recovering from a very serious case of poison ivy, it has been hard to do anything but sleep.

Hopefully now that the itching is finally starting to subside, I can tackle this one piece at a time.

It's been tough to respond to this one, as I am a mess hater as well. I just have to realize that i can only take baby steps and try not to get worked up over things. I know I am succeeding in that, but it's hard when my baby steps affect someone else.

Lisa, were you able to pick up a bit for thanksgiving? How did that go?

Jilly -

I am a firm believer in baby steps. Bob and I were just talking about the basement today. It's a giant mess and we can't even begin to tackle it because it is so jam-packed there is no place to put anything in order to then clear out an area. I finally said, we have to start somewhere. We have to get just one small corner somehow cleared out and organized, so we can then use that space to tackle the next corner and so on. But then he promptly fell asleep. So hopefully sometime we can start in on that.

In my case Bob is fine with the mess, and he creates the mess, so he has no incentive to clean up the mess. He would be happy living like that.

I'm more confused in your case. Your DH doesn't like the mess, but I don't get any sense that he helps clean.

I'm pleased to report that my Thanksgiving cleaning efforts paid off.

First, I tackled the dining area. Mostly what I did was put all the garden stuff on the back porch. That isn't a long term solution, the snows will come soon. Still, the dining area is clean! We could fit people in there! I was so so happy with a clean dining area. Especially because our plants are all in there and I could sit surrounded by the plants and gaze at their flowers and soak in their growiness. I was quite happy.

However.

Then Bob wanted us to prepare a pile for BigBrother BigSister, who are coming for a pick-up on Tuesday. I had to choose somewhere to put all the "junk". So ... the dining area was it. So my joy was short lived.

However, this is just until Tuesday. And it will be GREAT to clear out a bunch of stuff to give to them. So I am promising myself that this is only for 2 days. I can last that long. I just have to have faith that it will actually be all clean again then.

Lisa, his stuff is tidy and organized. This is all my stuff. Stuff from moving so many times, shoving things into storage, buying more things for the next house..i have enough stuff to be on hoarders. he won't touch any of it. Why should he? It's not his and he has other things to do. It does bug him though and it does bug me. But getting myself worked up over it won't help. So he pretty much keeps his mouth shut and I try to not feel guilty about my slow progress.

Dear Jilly -

In my house, most of the mess is Bob's. But we are a team and I understand he needs help, so I help. I went through the coffee table - which was his pile of mail from literally March on - and I sorted it and put it into a box for him. He had a bunch of fans in his office. I had him get a Rubbermaid for them, and then I put them into it, labelled it, and now it goes into the attic.

We are a team - it doesn't matter if the items are nominally his or mine. We share the space and we each have our own strengths and weaknesses so I help him with this task. Just like he does the lawnmowing. It's not "his grass".

If DH is good at organizing, and this is something that bothers him, I would think he should help instead of him just wanting you to do it all on your own. That is an unnecessary burden on you.

Lisa, we aren't a team. That is how he has set up our boundaries.

He did make a nice warm cat house for the kittens, unasked, and also does a few projects here and there. I just try to be thankful for anything he does.

Our situation is more like having a roommate. I would not expect a roommate to organize my things.

Dear Jilly -

I admit that part of me is still rebelling a bit, but every couple has its own dynamics that works for that couple and there is never any right or wrong answer. I suppose what is tweaking at me still is that he doesn't like the mess. He gets bothered by the mess. He makes the community atmosphere less-than-content because of the mess. And yet he won't help. To me that is not productive whatever name the community situation is called.

But in the end you can't change him - you can only change your own behavior and ways of reacting. I imagine you've already tried suggesting changes to him and if he won't change, there isn't much you can do about that.

I'm not sure what that type of behavior is even called, where someone likes to be grumpy about someone else's situation and nit-picks at them without doing anything productive to help make the situation better. I love metaphors. To me it would be like a husband complaining about his wife's weight while continuing to bring piles of sugar donuts and cookies and candies and ice cream into the house. He's refusing to be part of the solution, plus he's souring the atmosphere. If he brought in all the cookies and such and was joyfully content with his wife's size, then that would be fine! I think it's the combination of complaining plus not being helpful that bothers me.

But again you can't change another person. If this is the situation you're presented with, then you can work to protect yourself from his atmosphere and also work - at your own pace - to make your world suit your needs.

So I think one key is to definitely celebrate your victories, every step. You deserve a lot of praise for all the progress you've made. You're saving THOUSANDS of dollars by not having the storage shed. That's amazing! You're earning money with your actions with the items. That's super! You literally have free money all around you and you simply get to choose which money you want to take advantage of in a given day. Lots of people would crave this sort of fantastic situation. You live in a money pile. It is an amazing, multi-textured money pile too Your island is covered with money!

Love this topic .

I'm the organized person with a few untidy spaces .

My husband is unorganized, meaning he does not put things back where they belong. Simultaneously, he hates an untidy home. He will clean, but only after the mess is out of control (and that only happens when I am tired of walking behind him putting things away). Worst, his solution is to throw away anything in the pile that belongs to me.

I grew up in a household that had no "clean-up" days for kids. We put things in the spaces they belonged as soon as we were done with them. The kitchen and bath were cleaned daily. Mom only needed to mop floors, wash mirrors & such once a week.

My husband grew up with "days to clean".

The contrast drives us both crazy .

I think we should tell young people to assess these things before getting married .

BTW,

I'm working on improving my contribution to the problem. I thoroughly cleaned my bedroom, the kids' room & the garden room this month. Tomorrow, I will tackle the art closet.

Wish I had a magic spell to teach him to clean up behind himself.

I am feeling for you Jilly. I would have to say I would never expect anyone to organize 'for' me, nor would I organize 'for' someone else. But, and this is a big but, you can and should expect support in the process. In shared spaces the organizing process happens together. There will be give and take, finding common ground and so on. It is truly a team effort. It's too bad you don't have a team atmosphere, but I seriously hope you don't let guilt take over. Guilt should be reserved for when you have knowingly done something wrong. Clearly you haven't. Take pride in your baby steps. That's the best way to create lasting change.

Thank you Kelly Jayne. I am actually working on making this *my* place, since I expect dan will only be here for a few more months. I spent this last week indoors a lot - it's been rainy - and celaning, decluttering, and organizing things the way I like them. My desk is finally workable, and i don't feel like i have to perch on the couch, bent painfully over my netbook, to get things done.

Dan knows he is on the way out, so he really can't complain. In fact, he is being super helpful since he feels bad about leaving me. This might end up being a good thing. I will be lonely with him not here, but I think i will end up with workable systems, and far less pressure to get things done on someone else's timeline.

I am not saying that ending a marriage is the way to solve this problem for everyone, though!

@Lisa, I do have to remind myself of the money saved by closing the storages! It's easy to dwell on the heaps of stuff here and feel bad about that, forgetting how GREAT it is to now have my stuff around me for use.

I keep thinking about what you are saying about a money pile on my island. lol. I am thinking what things might be the easiest to start selling. Besides the metal and recycling.

Dear Yvonnie -

It sounds like many of us are in the same situation. In your case, it seems like you have a partner who contributes to the mess and then contributes to complaining about the mess.

I admit that I have resistant to a person who complains while not taking action to fix the issue. If it is something that bothers him, in a communal home, he should act rather than yelp. It is completely unproductive - and wearying! - to add yelping to communal atmosphere.

Do you, now, have "days to clean"? Maybe it is time to implement them?

I find my boyfriend will sit on the couch all day long, but if I am aggressive about saying "OK **NOW** we are going outside to do something about that mess" he will get up to help. I don't like being in that position. I don't like having to push / force him into doing something I feel he should be doing on his own. But this seems to be the only way (after 16 years) of making progress.

Dear Jilly -

Make yourself a sign. Even if it's a hand drawn scribble for now. Draw yourself a Money Island with even a few symbols representing the money that is all around you. You have consolidated yourself onto your island! You are saving thousands of dollars! That is an amazing feat!

Hmmm, how about a mental drawing? On my island, there is a tandem kayak that I want to turn into a canoe. Lots of recycling scraps that will turn into cash. Nice furniture that I can consign at stores that do that kind of thing. Nice housewares I can sell on CL or other websites. Silver and gold jewelry to sell as scrap. Costume jewelry to sell at booth-type events. Books I can sell on amazon. Land parcels to sell. My RV and two trailers. My dead jeep.

I think that is all my assets. Not including my home!

A mental drawing is quite fine!

All sorts of things, all around you, that's great!

Had an insight today! My mailbox is on a busier neighborhood street than my hidden dirt dead end drive.

so i grabbed one of my cardboard boxes, wrote FREE on it with a sharpie. Then i loaded the box up with random things that are usable that i rescued from a thrift store dumpster and brought this 'free' box to where the mailboxes are lined up. I placed it there.

I hope people take things! I am excited to see if this works.

That is an AWESOME idea Jilly - and what a perfect holiday gift to your community! I'm sure this is a win-win!