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Hi Student4ever

To whom do we enquire? Who are these scholars you speak of? I have never met one yet! I know many people who claim to read the Quran but I know very few who actually understand the Quran. I was told the other day by another Muslim that there are too many Quranic illiterates in the world and I totally agree with him.

Too many Muslims listen to hearsay and conjecture and the hadiths are forbidden in the Quran, in many verses, so I obey God, not what other humans tells me is Islam because humans tend to get things wrong. God is the Teacher.

So many Muslims today do not actually read the Quran and are totally oblivious to what it actually says. Everything is FULLY DETAILED in the Quran, we have no need for words written by men many years after the death of Mohamed.

The prayers were known to Mohamed, each rakat and movement because the prayers were given to Abraham and Mohamed followed the religion of Abraham, so he knew how to pray. The Quran gives instruction on what to say and do and when. There is not a single hadith which explains prayers either I must add!

Tell me, how do we follow a man who is dead and no longer on the planet? To me this smacks of idolatry and is the same form of idolatry as practiced by Christians with the worship of Jesus Christ alongside God. To obey Mohamed is to follow the Quran as he instructed us to do. Not conjecture written by other human beings.

God says worship Me alone, follow only the Quran. But I appreciate you follow a different path of Islam. Mohamed only followed the Quran, he didn't make up his own religion but people today follow conjecture rather than the word of God.

Nice to have you on board.

It is a popular myth that Mohamed was given the rites of prayer when, in fact, the Quran tells us that it was Abraham who was given the Islamic rites of prayer, charity and fasting.


You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you submitters (muslims) originally. Thus, the messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall observe the contact prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and hold fast to God; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.

Quran 22, verse 78

Mohamed's only mission was to deliver the Quran to mankind.

Throughout the Quran Islam is referred to as 'millat Ibrahim' ~ religion of Abraham.

Who would forsake the religion of Abraham except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
Quran 2, verse 130


Mohamed was inspired to follow the religion of Abraham showing that the practice of prayer etc were known to the people.

Then we inspired you to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist, he never was an idol worshiper.
Quran 16, verse 123


Mohamed will say when we are all called to judgement...

... "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Quran 25, verse 30

It is fact that the religion of Islam is the religion of Ibrahim PBUH and all the prophets incited to submit to the one God, Allah, which is the same religion as Islam. But there was no practice of Islam which Ibrahim PBUH taught. People were worshiping idles and going around the Kaba;h naked until the Quran prohibited such act. There was no practice of prayers or other rituals or worship as Mohammad PBUH taught. If anyone has doubt about what the prophet has said and taught then the Quran was also brought through Mohammad and people who have doubt about Mohammad are doubting the Quran as Mohammad was the one who was first to say it. Ibrahim PBUH said: Al-Baqara [2:129] رَبَّنَا وَابْعَثْ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِكَ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ العَزِيزُ الحَكِيمُ Rabbana waibAAath feehim rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatika wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wayuzakkeehim innaka anta alAAazeezu alhakeemu 2:129 "Our Lord! send amongst them an Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise." Another verse also said: Al-Jumu'ah [62:2] هُوَ الَّذِي بَعَثَ فِي الْأُمِّيِّينَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ Huwa allathee baAAatha fee alommiyyeena rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wain kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin 62:2 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;- What would you say about the verses which tell Muslims to obey Mohammad and how would someone obey another person without listening to his words: يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلاً Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo ateeAAoo Allaha waateeAAoo alrrasoola waolee alamri minkum fain tanazaAAtum fee shayin faruddoohu ila Allahi waalrrasooli in kuntum tuminoona biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri thalika khayrun waahsanu taweelan 4:59 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. 5:92 Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner. 24:54 Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). 47:33 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds! At-Taghabun [64:12] 64:12 So obey Allah, and obey His Messenger. but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Messenger is but to proclaim (the Message) 48:29 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward. 33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things. 2:143 Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. 4:41 How then if We brought from each people a witness, and We brought thee as a witness against these people! Again if rhere is doubt in what Mohammed taught then we are douting the Quran Peace

The scripts were Arabic verses which I pasted and seemed fine until were submitted then it turned to scripts. Will not use Arabic afterwards, Apologies

To obey the prophet is to follow ONLY the Quran as the prophet did. Mohamed's only mission was to deliver the Quran to all mankind and God says that God is the teacher of the Quran.

To obey Mohamed when he was alive is acceptable, to obey a dead man is what? IMPOSSIBLE.

God knew that human beings would idolise the prophet and that they would write lies about him, that is why God says in the Quran that the only hadith and sunnah, is God's hadith and sunnah.

As I am neither a sunni or a shia the hadiths are totally irrelevant to my faith. I have the Quran, I have God as a Teacher and that is all I need.

Peace Linda, I am not talking about Sunni or Shia but my reference her is the Quran as you do. While I agree with that there is no idolatry in Islam and no one should be idolized and it is clear Shirk to idolize anything; but following and learning the example of the prophet is not idolizing. By obeying the prophet, it is actually following the Quran as he was inspired to teach the Muslims and the world. That requires knowing and learning about how he practiced the Quran. Indeed it is actually the Quran that says obey the prophet but it never said obey him only when he is alive. If I buy a machine or any piece of equipment, it becomes lot easier for me to learn how to use this machine by watching someone operating it which helps me in using it correctly and to help avoid breaking it, which renders it useless. If that process was recorded or video taped, more people could certainly benefit from this demonstration. Not only that but it will definitely help everyone who watches it even after the person who demonstrated and videotaped it was dead and that does not make it an idolizing to the operator. Quran instructs us to follow the example and the teachings of the prophet as he was sent to demonstrate how to practice the religion: 2:151 Even as We have sent unto you an apostle from among yourselves to convey unto you Our messages, and to cause you to grow in purity, and to impart unto you revelation and wisdom, and to teach you that which you knew not. 33:21 VERILY, in the Apostle of God you have a good example for everyone who looks forward [with hope and awe] to God and the Last Day, and remembers God unceasingly. 33:36 Now whenever God and His Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a believing man or a believing woman to claim freedom of choice insofar as they themselves are concerned: for he who [thus] rebels against God and His Apostle has already, most obviously, gone astray. 33:56 Verily, God and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: [hence,] O you who have attained to faith, bless him (saying SallaAllahuAlyhiWassallam; Peace and Blessing of Allah be Upon Him)and give yourselves up [to his guidance] in utter self-surrender 33:57 Verily, as for those who [knowingly] affront God and His Apostle - God will reject [73] them in this world and in the life to come; and shameful suffering will He ready for them. 33:69 O ye who believe! Be ye not like those who vexed and insulted Moses, but Allah cleared him of the (calumnies) they had uttered; and he was honorable in Allah's sight. As you know, the most important thing in Islam is being the middle way, not to any extreme, i.e., as we are required not to idolize the prophet, we are required to obey him and love and respect him (as well as all prophets) as a human chosen by Allah to convey his message, the message of Ibrahim and all the prophets, peace be upon them all; we do not differentiate between any of them. 2:136 Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam) 2:285 THE APOSTLE, and the believers with him, believe in what has been bestowed upon him from on high by his Sustainer: they all believe in God, and His angels, and His revelations, and His apostles, making no distinction between any of His apostles; and they say: We have heard, and we pay heed. Grant us Thy forgiveness, O our Sustainer, for with Thee is all journeys'. Peace and Blessing

Peace Student

There is no instruction in the Quran to obey any prophet after his death. There is no instruction in the Quran for Mohamed to teach the Quran to anyone because God tells us the He is the Teacher of the Quran. Mohamed followed the Quran by obeying it and following it to the letter not by making up his own religion by writing hadiths.

Idolatry is rife amongst Muslims today who idolise Mohamed in the same way that Christians idolise Jesus Christ. They give Mohamed more credit than God does in the Quran. They put his name in the declaration of faith and the prayers when God says they are for Him alone.

As for obeying Mohamed, I will ask you again, how do you obey a man who has been dead for 1400 years? And who authorised the writing of hadith?

Before I became a Muslim I was a Christian, I left Christianity because of the idolatry of the prophet Jesus. I came to Islam because this is where God led me, not Mohamed. Jesus and Mohamed have never had anything to do with my faith other than for the scriptures they both received. They were God's prophets, they did God's will. They are now both dead and no longer on this Earth. You cannot obey dead people. That is only logical and the hadiths, they were written by other humans, not Mohamed or God. They are just speculation and conjecture. All of them say things like, so and so said that so and so said that Mohamed may have said, that is hearsay, Chinese whispers. Mohamed never actually said any of them, but if there is one I like it is this one:

"Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Quran let him erase it." (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa'l-Raqaa'iq, 5326)

It is such a shame this hadith has been ignored by those who claim to follow the hadiths. He clearly says in the above hadith not to write them and if you have erase them. Why are Muslims ignoring this hadith? Is it one of the unreliable hadiths?

Mohamed was the final prophet and his only mission was to deliver the final scripture to the world. Not to teach it or to change it as the hadiths have done. God is the ONLY Teacher of the Quran (55:2).

Corruption and idolatry is as rife in Islam as it is in all religion today. God tells us to depend ONLY on Him, to believe ONLY Him and to worship ONLY Him. Today Mohamed has become as much a god as God himself with the attribution of hadiths to his name which is also added to the shahada and the prayer.

Muslims have disobeyed God when he tells them in the Quran not to divide into sects. Look what is happening in Islam today, shia think they follow the pure Islam, sunni say their way is the only way, and the multitude of other sects claim their way is the path of God. Today Muslims are killing each other because no one obeys God, they would rather listen to conjecture then kill someone who disagrees with them.

There is only one Islam (submission to the will of ONE god) and that religion belongs to God not sunni or shia or kamiliyah or saltiyah sects, or to the Saudi Arabians who seem to have laid claim to all the rites of Islam. God guides and God teaches, not the thugs who claim to lead Islam today. There are no leaders in Islam except God.

I appreciate you trying to teach me the way you follow Islam but it is really down to each and every one of us to find our own way. We do not need other humans to teach us the word of God, He is the ONLY reliable Teacher.

I write about what interests me which is Islam and Holistic Health. I do not expect others to follow what I say or even believe what I say, but for me God is the only Teacher of the Quran.


The messenger said, "My Lord my people have deserted this Quran."

Quran 25:30

God bless