logo

THIS IS THE NEW SERVER - WE ARE STILL TWEAKING IT
Channel List
Beauty & Self
Books & Music
Career
Computers
Education
Family
Food & Wine
Health & Fitness
Hobbies & Crafts
Home & Garden
Money
News & Politics
Relationships
Religion & Spirituality
Sports
Travel & Culture
TV & Movies
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Newest Members
Abby joy, freekundli, Suanle, prempesos, Anne Mehla
58099 Registered Users
Forum Stats
58,099 Registered Members
417 Forums
117,254 Topics
833,627 Posts

Most users ever online: 615 @ 04/22/15 10:11 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
Nancy Roussy 265
Mona - Astronomy 93
Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames 60
Angie 47
Connie - ADD/Sandwiches 37
Korie - California/Yoga Editor 26
Michelle - Teen & Reading Editor 24
Angela - Drama Movies 16
Susan - Meditation Editor 16
"Rosie" 11
Ad Income Supports Charity
Topic Options
#700228 - 07/05/11 01:27 PM Our Constitution and the Iroquois
Jane - Native American Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Koala

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 2100
Loc: Southeast Georgia
I stumbled on Brian Cook's Iroquois Influence Thesis several months ago and had saved it on my desktop. It was a long read, but worth it. The first part presents the basis and conclusions of several historians that this Native government did play a role in the drafting of our Constitution. The thesis continues with the opposing arguments presenting discrepancies and assumptions.

I don't know the details of other federalist systems from the 16th and 17th centuries, such as the Dutch and the Swiss, but our Founding Fathers most certainly did. I can understand the Iroquois influence being downplayed and not specifically addressed in the historical record. I think it safe to say most Colonists didn't consider the Indians when pondering equality among men.

There certainly are many parallels to consider.
_________________________
Jane Winkler, Editor
Native American Site
NativeAmericanForum
Avatar: Feather Dance Bustle - Men's Regalia

Top
#700497 - 07/06/11 11:00 PM Re: Our Constitution and the Iroquois [Re: Jane - Native American]
Phyllis Doyle Burns Offline
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 17644
Loc: Reno, NV
The people of Iroquois confederacy had a tremendous impact and influence on American history because of their political organization which was extremely advanced for that era. The US Calvary had meetings with Iroquois leaders to help them (US Calvary) in strategic battle plans and warfare. I found this out a few years ago when researching for an article. You are right, Jane, about the influence of the Iroquois being downplayed in American historical records.

In drafting the laws of this country I also agree with you that "I think it safe to say most Colonists didn't consider the Indians when pondering equality among men."

I would love to read Brian Cook's thesis.
_________________________
Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain

Top
#700545 - 07/07/11 07:38 AM Re: Our Constitution and the Iroquois [Re: Phyllis Doyle Burns]
Jane - Native American Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Koala

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 2100
Loc: Southeast Georgia
There's a link to Brian Cook's thesis at the bottom of the article. The first half was an enjoyable read, which presented the evidence for the Influence theory. In the second half, Mr. Cook presents the opposing argument. Disagreement with the Influence theory isn't based soley on denial of any influence the Iroquois Confederation may have had. Rather, it addresses assumptions and discrepancies in the research of those who promote the theory.

Those who oppose question the research for its basis and assumptions made from historical documents. They question whether there is sufficient proof the Iroquois had any more or less influence than other forms of government these leaders would have known of.

It's a tricky thing. How can one document "influence?" Unless it is clearly stated and recorded, knowledge and experience can influence our actions when we don't even realize it's happening.

It sure would be nice to have a conversation with these great men of the past. They were so careful with their written and spoken words, by necessity. THEY were establishing the Freedom of Speech we take for granted each day. There is no way for us to know what was truly in their minds and hearts, especially on a subconscious level without them realizing and sharing it.

It doesn't bother me that the methodology used for the Influence Theory is questioned and ripped apart. Assumptions are a necessary part of any theory, but statements can't be removed from context and facts must be verified. What bothers me is the strong rebuttal of any possible influence. Possibilities have to be addressed. They simply cannot be ruled out in the light of documented contact with the Iroquois and the many similarities which found their way into our Constitution.
_________________________
Jane Winkler, Editor
Native American Site
NativeAmericanForum
Avatar: Feather Dance Bustle - Men's Regalia

Top

Moderator:  Sacred Tobacco Woman 

Want to reply? Register as a Forum Member - it's quick, free and fun!
Brand New Posts
Lisa's Daily 10pm EST / 8pm MST Meditation
by Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames
Meditation
51 minutes 41 seconds ago
Colin Farrell/Nicole Kidman in New Film
by Angela - Drama Movies
Drama Movies
Today at 12:08 PM
Life and Death of Massive Stars – Facts for Kids
by Mona - Astronomy
Astronomy
Today at 10:57 AM
Charles Messier – Comet Ferret *new*
by Mona - Astronomy
Astronomy
Today at 10:47 AM
Where are you and how is the weather?
by Mona - Astronomy
Inspiration
Today at 10:32 AM
Kate Winslet/Liam Hemsworth Film Gets US Release
by Angela - Drama Movies
Drama Movies
Today at 10:32 AM
What did you SPEND money on today?
by Nancy Roussy
Frugal Living
Today at 09:36 AM
Rehoming Your Beloved Books
by Michelle - Teen & Reading Editor
Reading
Today at 03:21 AM
Maleficent (2014)
by Nancy Roussy
Children's Movies
Today at 02:18 AM
Minions (2015)
by Nancy Roussy
Children's Movies
Today at 02:16 AM
Register to Post!
Want to post? For security reasons you need to Register as a Forum Member. It's quick, easy and free!
Forum Activities
Book Clubs
Trivia Contests
Who's Online
1 registered (Connie - ADD/Sandwiches), 53 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Ad Income Supports Charity



| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2015 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.