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#683899 - 05/04/11 11:46 PM Geronimo?  
Joined: Feb 2008
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Jane - Native American Offline
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Jane - Native American  Offline
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Koala

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Southeast Georgia
The Code Name for the Navy Seals' operation in Pakistan caught my attention immediately. It didn't seem to fit.

Jeff Houser is Tribal Chairman for the Fort Sill Apache and his reaction was stronger. In a letter to the President he asked for an apology and described the use of Geronimo's name as "painful and offensive."

At first, I'm reminded of the hullabaloo raised over sports team names, such as Braves, Chiefs, etc. years ago. I never did figure out what all the fuss was about. But this is closer to my heart and more serious. It concerns our military and the American Indian community.

If the Navy Seals' chose this code name, based on their small band's mission within a country of millions, with the possibility some of them would not return... If the name Geronimo refers to these guys, it does fit. Our Navy Seals are strong, brave, and resourceful. They defend and protect their People. Our military are our warriors.

If the code name was selected by someone else, it is confusing as to who or what situation Geronimo's name is being associated with. Hopefully, additional information will be forthcoming to clarify this. In the meantime, how do you feel? Are you offended, indifferent, or like me, hopeful the guys chose the code name?


Jane Winkler, Editor
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#683907 - 05/05/11 12:46 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Jane - Native American]  
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Lori - Marriage Offline
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My first reaction when I heard the name of the military ops was, "That is totally inappropriate."



Lori Phillips
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#683928 - 05/05/11 02:28 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Lori - Marriage]  
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Jane - Native American Offline
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Koala

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Southeast Georgia
After my previous post, I was talking with my husband. His understanding of news coverage he had seen was the code name Geronimo referred to Bin Laden. IF this is correct, my reaction will be as strong as Chairman Houser's. Lori, I would agree with you, "Totally inappropriate!"

I've been tied up the past 3 days, catching only bits and pieces of the news. The mission was successful and all our guys returned safely. That's the truly important part and this is merely an aside, but I would like to know. Can someone clear up this "Code Name" thing?

Last edited by Jane - Native American; 05/05/11 02:30 AM.

Jane Winkler, Editor
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#683942 - 05/05/11 03:18 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Jane - Native American]  
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Phyllis Doyle Burns Offline
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When I first heard that the code name was Geronimo I felt good about it because:

When my siblings and I were kids, we played "Cowboys and Indians" almost every day. Geronimo was always one of our heroes and we all fought over who got to be Geronimo. Geronimo was so clever to evade his enemies for so long, plus he was a very courageous warrior with cunning, stealth, and strength. He struck fear into all his enemies. So - I thought the code name Geronimo meant that was the symbolic name for our Navy Seals Team who accomplished a great task.

Now, I am not sure why they chose the code name Geronimo. An article I just read stated that when bin Laden was killed, the message sent to Obama was "Geronimo-E-KIA". (Geronimo - Enemy Killed In Action). If it was termed to code Osama as Geronimo, I can understand why many are offended. However, if it meant Geronimo (Seals) got Osama, then I would be happy that the Navy Seals were given the name of a great warrior for their code name.


Last edited by Phyllis-Folk/Myth; 05/05/11 03:20 AM.

Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
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#683954 - 05/05/11 04:07 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Phyllis Doyle Burns]  
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Jane - Native American Offline
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Koala

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My husband is a retired submariner. Those guys don't use a radio much, they're generally very quiet. So he's not familiar with radio lingo, and certainly not that used by the Seals.

That's the exact message, my husband repeated to me. We need Beetlemess on this one. I'm sure he could clarify it, but he's tied up with wedding preparations.


Jane Winkler, Editor
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#683956 - 05/05/11 05:09 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Jane - Native American]  
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Phyllis Doyle Burns Offline
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I often think that what the media is told is not the whole truth and it is to keep them off track. I mean, come on, - do we really think the government will give out info like what the "secret" code was?

Look at the Code Talkers and what they did for our country -- God bless each and every one of them. The government did not release any info on what the secret codes were till 50 years after that war.


Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain
#683977 - 05/05/11 06:25 AM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Phyllis Doyle Burns]  
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Jane - Native American Offline
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Koala

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Not surprising. I saw something recently about classified documents from WWI still not released. These were on the codes back then. Why they would publicize radio transmissions from this operation is beyond me. I don't think this example of tranparency was needed, or well thought.


Jane Winkler, Editor
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#684060 - 05/05/11 03:24 PM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Jane - Native American]  
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Awwww... The Fog of War. What do you want me to do? Go over & knock on the front door of the White House and say that I'm inquiring for many devoted members of BellaOnline. Maybe jump over the river & conduct an office call with the Joint Chief of Staff in his 5-sided puzzle palace. How about I avoid the exposure & offer this?

I, too, am a bit unread on the entire subject, so I'll do my best.

Military Operations (& many sub-elements within) are given code words that provide a bit of security to the overall purpose & conduct of the mission. Even brevity codes are developed to minimize radio transmissions, conceal a routine/special message &/or prevent interception with electronic scanning devices. Training exercises are given names to keep all involved abreast with the concept.

Until the presentation of an official definition of who/what is 'Geronimo' (I didn't catch one in the paper during the morning commute), there can only be speculation and each of the discriptions above as to how the term may be for the mission and/or the codename for ObL. Agree that the stories & legends of the famous Chiricahua Apache leader seem to fit the setting of a 'US Government-determined' renegade causing havoc on the protected US public. Whether the term was for SEAL Team Six, the operation or the target can be debated with very good reasoning & logic.

If 'Geronimo' refers to ObL due to the daring exploits of Al Qaeda & the hiding, then the NA community & the concerned public need to voice their disapproval. The fact that what Geronimo accomplished in the late 1800's & how he did it was signified by even considering the use of his name. His legacy & impact survives in the commoners hearts over 100 years after his death. Not many people around that would've actually seen him. This does not warrant the use of his name in such a manner.

If 'Geronimo' was the name of the operation, this could also be construed as both a honoring and a derogatory/negative term usage by recalling the 'hit swiftly' tactics used by the Apache to convey their purpose.

Using radio communications requires terminology known to all & uses terms/phrases that can be easy spoken & understood. A good example is saying letters of the English alphabet; if not pronounced clearly or the annunciation is overriden by background noise (battle events, static, turbine engines & slapping rotor blades, etc.), the letters A, J, & all sound alike; or M & N;, or B, C, D, E, G, P, T, & V. That led to a phonetic alphabet (some letters are the same between police/public servants & military/aviation); military examples are a=Alfa, b=Bravo, ..., y=Yankee, z=Zulu.

The radio transmission could yield alot if dissected to mean E (enemy of <if that's what the 'E' stood for in the brevity codes>) - GERONIMO - KIA. That would define the name of the team. I would've expected the letters to be phonetically pronounced to dissuade any confusion.

I probably opened a new parfleche for others to cast arrows into.

<<< Yep... 10 more days & it will be over. Not only do we have Bridezilla to contend with, we have a Groom-Mothra. >>>





-B-
"We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children."
#684090 - 05/05/11 04:48 PM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Beetlemess]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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Jane - Native American Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Jane - Native American  Offline
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Koala

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,100
Southeast Georgia
I guess "Fog of War" is not referring to Pakistan, but to your Wedding Preparations! However, I really like the mental picture which formed in my head as I began to read your post.

Repelling down the exterior of the Pentagon in your Ribbon Shirt.

Thanks for pointing out that HOWEVER the name Geronimo was used, or whatever it referred to, whether or not it is appropriate or offensive depends on one's point of view.

Sometimes my objectivity experiences the Fog of War, and I need to step back for a clear view. Most people would say Geronimo was both revered and feared. It depends on whether you were an Apache, or a homesteader in the South West. It's all in the point of view.

Don't worry about a parfleche bag full or arrows (I was the one who opened it), just take care of your Sci-Fi Monsters smile
While in the midst of wedding preparations, I have found it helpful to use this mantra. "This too shall pass"


Jane Winkler, Editor
Native American Site
NativeAmericanForum
Avatar: Feather Dance Bustle - Men's Regalia
#684099 - 05/05/11 05:44 PM Re: Geronimo? [Re: Jane - Native American]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Beetlemess Offline
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Beetlemess  Offline
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Now was that a parfleche or is it the 'card box' that I'm suppose to help the granddaughter fabricate to put on the gift table?

Having 11 people inside my house & the coming/goings of another dozen or so has me wanting to go knock on the White House door & ask to stay there for awhile.

I did find some time to read some reports online & the general consensus I perceive is that the use of 'Germonio' was inappropriate. But then that may be due to shock-&-awe reporting; going for a sensational story & get a Pulitzer Prize from the investigation.

Almost any title they gave to the operation or to ObL could be misinterpreted. Even calling him 'Turkey' would be bad since it was professed by Ben Franklin to warrant being the national bird.


-B-
"We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children."
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