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#567879 - 11/30/09 08:26 AM U are forever responsible for what you have tamed
Diana-Exotic Pets Editor Offline
Koala

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 2358
Loc: Huron, South Dakota
"You are forever responsible for what you have tamed."

A very dear friend of mine just posted this quote in the thread from I Want an Exotic Pet - Now I Don't. I really thought it would be interesting to examine what we all thought the meaning of this statement meant to each of us.

To me it is weighty and deserves some serious discussion. We recently talked about chimpanzees and if we had the right to capture and hold captive a great ape very similar to us, humans. We also touched on the possibility that we may indeed be enslaving these primates.

Slave - Meaning �to subject somebody to a dominating influence that takes away his or her freedom.�
Encarta � World English Dictionary � & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation.
Both my friend ncc4200a and I love parrots especially macaws and I believe it has been proven they are just as intelligent as a chimpanzee.

We no doubt have the responsibility of caring for anything we hold captive as pets. Parrots are highly social. It is a huge responsibility to be their family.

It is interesting to examine ourselves; and our need to tame these species, is it our need for love? As I look around me right where I am sitting I see four pets at this very moment. Other than the fact I can only see half of a monitor they all appear quite content. It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes.
_________________________
Diana

Exotic Pets

Birds

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#567921 - 11/30/09 10:27 AM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor]
LivingDeadCupcake Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 17
I have two amazon parrots, 21 and 32 yo this January, both of whom have outlived their original moms. Every couple of months, my sister, who works at a vet clinic, calls me and asks me if I want another free bird that somebody is getting rid of. I know she only calls me when the bird is free and comes with accessories, is similar to mine or very exotic/expensive, so there is no telling how many little, unspectacular birds, like parakeets and such, that she sees people getting rid of. I am not adopting any birds under 20 yo, either, because of my age. Most of the birds she calls me about are too young. I was just thinking about this yesterday. So many household parrots are going extinct in the wild, but they are being bred prolificly in captivity. I know how smart they are, how they form such strongs bonds with people and other animals, and it kills me to see them shuffled around from person to person like home decor. The alternative, however, is extinction. As far as contentedness, yes, they seem incredibly happy, but then their mom has made them the center of her universe. The hubz has worried aloud what would happen to the younger one if something were to happen to me (21 yo belonged to MY mom, but had always really been my bird). We grew up together. He can be really mean to everyone but me. Chimps? That would be just like having an angry child forever with the strength of two grown men. It always ends badly for everyone involved. People can't really keep chimps for long---so they are going extinct, too. I live very close to Alabama, where you can own ANYTHING you can get your hands on. I really don't like telling people what they can and can't do, but I hate to see animal suffering. We live in a world where people (sometimes understandably) don't even want to take care of other humans---even the cute, little kind of humans---so I wish people would put more thought into whether or not they want to adopt something that will never ever learn to use the toilet.

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#568400 - 12/01/09 09:47 PM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: LivingDeadCupcake]
ncc4200a Offline
Amoeba

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Victoria, Australia
When someone says I want a parrot as a pet, I tell them are you sure? Do you know what it means to be the custodian of such a creature? Have you done research on what their needs are? Those are just a few questions I ask, when people tell me they want one as a pet. I also tell them, "You are forever responsible for what you have tamed." That usually gets them giving me a funny look as they ponder what i just said. For me a Macaw is not a pet, but a life companion. Most likely they will outlive you and your spouse, and you will have a bond with them as strong - if not stronger - then your own child or spouse. Unlike a child - who will eventually grow up and become self-sufficient, a parrot wont. Yes they are about as smart as a 7 year old human. But, they cannot take care fo themselves without your help. From their point of view - You have the whole world in your hands. You determine what they eat, when they eat, what level of hygene they live in, how much social interaction they have... and even if they live or die. You control their whole world! Where as a spouse controls their own world, your child will eventually control thiers ( no matter how much you still think they are your little kiddies - they do grow up.)Your macaw doesnt. ( and this goes for ANY creature you decide to share your life with. I just happen to be a little more dedicated to parrots.) So before you get a living creature to share your world. Please make sure you are ready for the lifelong commitment it actually entails. IF you cannot make the time, then please dont take the pet... If all else, take a photo you can look at occasionally, or get a stuffed animal to occasionally hug.. It will mean one less life ruined because you did not take the time to provide for it.


Edited by ncc4200a (12/01/09 09:48 PM)

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#568406 - 12/01/09 11:15 PM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: ncc4200a]
Sioux Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
I agree wholeheartedly! I am the proud companion of a Blue-Fronted Amazon Parrot named Bailey, and she's a sweetheart. She is a rescue. I recieved her from friends who saved her from horrendous conditions - she had been in a covered cage, pushed into a corner and never interacted with. All they did was occasionally feed and water her. She's nearly 11 years old (I think) and all she can say is 'Hello'. By now she should be able to say a few more words. Since I've had her, she's grown so much and is no longer so afraid of people. She really is a good friend and a great protector! And I can hear her trying out 'pretty bird' in the back of her throat! If a person wants a parrot, please please PLEASE be sure you're willing to live with it for the rest of your life. You'll probably have to will it to someone, depending on its life expectancy. It is a long-term commitment, and one I don't regret making. Peace

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#568416 - 12/02/09 12:03 AM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: Sioux]
Diana-Exotic Pets Editor Offline
Koala

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 2358
Loc: Huron, South Dakota
All the posts in this thread send a warm glow through my body. When I see so much hurt and heartbreak in rescue pets and I become so critical of the human race, then I see testimonies such as these and it renews my faith in humankind.

I would love to have a hand-fed baby macaw, Amazon, or cockatoo right now but it wouldn�t be fair because I am 54 and my health has been beyond iffy most my life. I have a daughter I know would try to take care of it, but she has a toddler and another baby due in less than two weeks. I finally have the space and the place. So, I will continue with rescues, it does the heart good.

I am in Huron, South Dakota and can take rescue birds, skunks, ect, you can contact me via email or forum. I check the forum at least twice a day. It might get a little iffier closer to my daughters due date. But, I will be here.

I remember my birds muttering under their breaths at night learning new words. They would almost whisper in such a sweet voice. Soon they would have a new word or phrase and so proud to show it off the first time. Parrots have such sweet souls and I love them dearly.

Thank you for the acknowledgment that there is far more good than bad in the world. I hope to hear more about your birds.


Edited by Diana-Exotic Pets Editor (12/07/09 08:37 AM)
_________________________
Diana

Exotic Pets

Birds

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#568433 - 12/02/09 03:40 AM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor]
ncc4200a Offline
Amoeba

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Victoria, Australia
One of my Macaws I had when i lived in the US was a semi rescue. His previous owners could no longer take care of him, and gave him to a exotic bird store to find a happy home for. He was slightly aggressive at first. took him three days just to step up to my fingers. I refused to force him to step up, and let him warm up to me. After taht he was a charmer, and had a wonderful vocabulary. His favorite words were shut up, and step up, and Aloha - which he said with wonderful enthusiasm. His name was Sylvester, he was a Hahn's Macaw. Just a little bigger then some conures, but he was 100% Macaw. The funniest story was when I went to the post office to pick something up, it was his turn to go for a car ride - which he loved dearly. While in the long line, there was a lady in her mid twenties with two very loud, spoiled, undisciplined children with her. They were running around yelling and screaming at each other, running through the lines - you get the picture. No one would say anything to them or the parent. for fear of geting a load of verbal abuse back from her. Well after about 15 minutes, Syl had enough, and said - in a VERY loud macaw tone; "Shut Up ... Bad Girl, Bad Girl". ( THe bad girl was a phrase he learned from Athena, my Blue and GOld Macaw.) Well, let me tell you, she spun around, and saw Syl glaring at her... The Postal employees stood mouth agape staring at Syl and myself, and the rest of the people in line were doing the same. There was a uncomfortable silence as the children clung to their mothers legs - either in fright or amazement. Then it happened, Syl turned his back on her and started laughing. Well, needless to say so did everyone else!!! Postal employees, customers, Syl and myself. The lady was dead quiet, and couldnt believe that a bird told her children off - how can you yell back at a bird? Everyone else was satisfied - they wanted to say the same thing - but we were not brave enough. Next time someone tells you birds only "parrot" or repeat bnack phrases is probably wrong. I ahve had two birds that actually knew when and how to use language, and would even hold minor conversations wtih you. :)

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#568443 - 12/02/09 08:25 AM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: ncc4200a]
Diana-Exotic Pets Editor Offline
Koala

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 2358
Loc: Huron, South Dakota
At least someone had the guts to discipline the child. I will bet you she will never forget that lesson. An Sly got the last laugh. I doubt if many people know much about the small macaw the Hahn�s perhaps you could enlighten us. I have some pictures we took of Sly and Athena when you were visiting would you mind if I posted them?
_________________________
Diana

Exotic Pets

Birds

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#568565 - 12/02/09 12:03 PM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor]
ncc4200a Offline
Amoeba

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Victoria, Australia
OH, please go ahead and post them :) Lets see, Hahn's Macaw.. Also called Red Shouldered Macaw. They are similiar looking to the military macaw ( if my memory serves me correct), but have red shoulder. and a few other minor colour differences. They are the smallest of the surviving Macaw species.. Some argue they are a missing link between the conures and the "true" macaws. I dont follow that camp personally. They are about the size of a grown mans fist, with a long tail. And dont think for once that they are any easier to have living with you. As with ALL macaws, they ahve their own distinct personalities, their own moods, their own demands... and yet every bit as loving, funny and wonderfully charming... just in a smaller package. Basically they are a condensed Macaw.. as with anything that is condensed, they are a bit... "more". In one moment Syl would have a severe napoleon complex,a nd think he is bigger then a Hyacynth - and hold his stubborn ground like you would not believe. The next moment ( especially if that tactic did not get what he wanted.) He would slightly turn away from you, then looking over his shoulder with teh most loving expression and say ALOHA!... That usually got him what he wanted :P See above about being manipulative :P There were tiems he would chase Athena - a Blue and GOld Macaw off "his" cage. ANd believe me, Athena would run. Yet, he would back down if he was on Athena's cage, lol. The funniest site you ever saw. They were not actually going to do any harm to each other.. More like a brother and sister having a disagreement over who has what rights. I have seen other Hahn's that were more loving passive then Syl, and some that are definately one person birds. What I am trying to say is there is no one type of bird they are. Their personality is as unique to each bird as it is to a human. Their personality starts to develop from hatching, and every experience with and without humans goes into their persona. Syl was the product of several loving familes, who had severe changes in their households that were beyond their control. And unfortunatley that meant he was sent to a new home. In my case, I moved to Australia to retire. At the time there was every possible thought that I would be able to bring them across. That it would only take a little bit of time and patience dealing with teh Australian Quarantine Service. Well over $15,000 and 6 years later. I was nowhere closer to getting that last hurdle approved then I was at day 1. So I made the most agonizing decision I ever had to make. I had to finally in my mind give them up, and fortunately they ere with a loving family. Not a day goes by that I dont think about them. I miss them as a parent would miss their children. In my mind, I broke the one promise I made to them, that I would take care of them forever. I still consider myself responsible for them, nothing will change that. I did what I could to make sure they were with a loving family. and I even got to see them one last time. It was about 4 years after I dropped them off. I was told to expect that they would not remember me, and not to take it personally. I told them, dont be surprised if they do remember me. Well, not only did they remember me, but they were very happy to see me, and acting all silly. Whistling, making laughs and saying their favorite words... Yet they knew it was only a last visit. I cannot explain it, but somehow they knew I was coming by to say hello one last time. On my way out, Syl said nite nite, and Athena kept saying luvya. It has been 6 years since that day... and even now, I get teary eyed thinking about it. So when I say, Please make sure you can forever take on the resonsibility of caring for such creatures - please really think about what it means. ( ok I got a little side tracked.... :P)

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#569225 - 12/05/09 11:44 PM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: ncc4200a]
Diana-Exotic Pets Editor Offline
Koala

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 2358
Loc: Huron, South Dakota
Sly

Here they are smile
_________________________
Diana

Exotic Pets

Birds

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#569226 - 12/05/09 11:45 PM Re: U are forever responsible for what you have tamed [Re: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor]
Diana-Exotic Pets Editor Offline
Koala

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 2358
Loc: Huron, South Dakota
Athena


Edited by Diana-Exotic Pets Editor (12/05/09 11:45 PM)
_________________________
Diana

Exotic Pets

Birds

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