BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Virgin Birth of Jesus discussion

Some of our Halloween conversation veered off into talking about the virgin birth, so I'm moving that part of the discussion to this topic. I hope.

Starting with part of my reply to Vance...

About the virgin birth. The four gospels are not carbon copies of each other. They each have a specific purpose. Mark and John start the story when Jesus is an adult (unless you count Mark starting back in Isaiah). John doesn't mention lots of things the other three do. My recommendation is to soak up all the glorious truth each gospel has to offer. When you're eventually thoroughly familiar with the content in all of them, chart out a little harmony of the gospels. When you can't figure out how a detail meshes here or there, consult reference materials written by believing scholars. Lots of God-honoring scholars have gone through everything with a fine toothed comb in the last 2000 years, and you'll most likely find that one or more of them has untangled what's troubling you. But mostly, stick with the Word itself.

As for mistranslations, the Greek word used in the New Testament that's translated "virgin" is parthenos, which means...virgin. The Hebrew word translated "virgin" is bethuwlah, which means...virgin. And like I said before, God is fully capable of preserving the message just as He wants it. So to say such an important tenet of Christianity is false, and based on a mistranslation, is to say either that God couldn't preserve the message, or that He's deceiving us somehow. Not happening. And we're Christians, we believe in a God of miracles, who created everything from nothing. Why can we not believe Jesus was born of a virgin? I don't get it.

By the way, you might've noticed that "some religious scholars" often have agendas of their own, and are not the least interested in confirming anything positive about Scripture.

I'm not sure that anyone could consider themselves saved by Jesus' death on the cross while not believing in the virgin birth. If He had not been born of a virgin, He would not have been the perfect sacrifice. He could not have paid the price for our sin. No one's sin would be forgiven.

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Lynne.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Nowhere in that verse does it say one has to believe in the Virgin birth to have everlasting life.

The thief on the cross didn't tell Jesus that he believed in the virgin birth. As a matter of fact, I don't believe anywhere in the Bible does it say that you have to believe in the virgin birth to get into Heaven.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Vance, could that verse possibly mean that if one believes in Him also believes that He was born of the Virgin? If one believes in Jesus, does that not mean they believe all that He stands for and how He came to be?

I do not read the Bible that often anymore, but, I keep it near. I have always believed in the Virgin Birth. But, I often wonder, how it came to be that Jesus had brothers and a sister in the same family with Joseph and Mary. Were His siblings from Joseph and his first wife who died? I seem to remember that James was older than Jesus. Was James Mary's son? Or were all the siblings younger than Jesus? Were they Mary's younger children? If so, then it is still possible that Jesus was of Virgin Birth.

I am not disputing anything here, just never seem to have cleared this up in my mind and would like some other thoughts on this.

You can read it anyway you want to I guess. I never said I didn't believe in the virgin birth, I was questioning why it was left out of certain gospels if it is such an important part of His life. If you need to believe in the Virgin birth to believe in Jesus, don't you think it would be in the Bible just as much as his death and resurrection is?

Vance,
The theif on the cross and everyone that believed that Jesus was the Christ knew Old Testament prophecy. They had been waiting for the Savior for generations. They knew the qualifications of the Christ. If you study the whole Bible, it is clear that the Christ would be born of a virgin.

(I realize that you didn't say that YOU didn't believe in the virgin birth.) I'm saying that if just another man - whether he was a prophet or a great teacher - died for us - it wouldn't mean anything in terms of our salvation. The sacrifice for sin had to be spotless and pure.

I think LeeAnn explained why the gospels aren't alike. They focus on different things and were written to different people. If they were carbon copies, we would only need one of them.

Phyllis,
I believe that Jesus' siblings were the children of Joseph and Mary after the birth of Jesus. I know that some people believe that Mary was a virgin for her whole life. From my Bible study, I think that after Jesus was born, she and Joseph had a normal marriage.

Another thought, if God is capable of creating the earth and everything in it, saving my soul and changing my life -as He has- He is certainly capable of coming to earth as a baby born to a virgin.

True, but Joseph knew that Mary was very special - as a result he may not have consummated the marriage.

My undrestanding is that Joseph married Mary because she was already expecting the Birth and he did so to protect her honor because he knew some would not believe that God had sent His Son to her. There were other children, some younger. James, I think, was Joseph's son by a previous marriage, therefore older than Jesus. I think Lynne is correct about a normal marriage after the birth of Jesus.