logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
OP Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
This is from the book I just posted a review on, Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate - http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art46929.asp:

"...you never get completely clear of your false desires. Even Buddha himself couldn't manage that trick. Those wonderful 'enlightened beings' who tell you they've achieved that rarified state are just con artists."

Do you agree or disagree? Do you feel there are a lot of Buddhist teachers making false claims out there? Do you think enlightenment is misrepresented?





Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic
Sponsored Post Advertisement
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
That's a great article, I liked that a lot!

I do agree that there are teachers who make false claims, I imagine that's true in every aspect of life. People get into career paths for all sorts of reasons, not all of them good. I think it's of value to research any teacher you take on, to get a sense of what they're about.

That being said, I think you can learn something from every person, so even a "not great teacher" can provide lessons for you to learn.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
Low Carb Forum
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
OP Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
Yes, I totally agree we can learn even from 'bad' teachers. What I like about this book is that he cuts through the idea that a teacher has to be a perfect being or 'spiritual superman' for us to learn from them. I have seen so many people give up on spirituality or religion when a teacher or preacher or priest, etc. displays a human frailty. But if we expect perfection, then we are basically separating our teachers from ourselves to such a degree that it is almost like we are saying we could never reach that state ourselves. Which in Buddhism especially is exactly NOT the point.

Of course it does depend on the 'frailty' and how the teacher or person set themselves up. If they claim to be 'perfected' or a superman, then the hypocrisy is a problem when they fall short of that.


Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
That brings up a very good question - what is a lesson we have learned from a "bad" teacher?

I'd have to give some thought as to which teacher I've had that I thought was a bad one ...


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
Low Carb Forum
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
OP Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
I've been thinking about this one. I don't know as I have had any 'bad teachers', just teachers that at some point fell short of an expectation that I had, which probably says more about my projections than the teachers themselves. A big one that comes to mind is a karate teacher that I studied with for 15 years. At a certain point I came to feel he abused his power, denigrating people beyond what was necessary at times, in the name of 'correcting' them. But he was a phenomenal teacher nevertheless. And the point of the book that I started this thread with is really that someone does NOT have to be a perfect example of following all the precepts, etc. in order for us to learn from them. In fact, we may learn more from someone who struggles with things like this, and shares his or her process with us honestly, so that we don't constantly feel we ourselves are falling short.


Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
Likes: 4
I had a teacher in middle school, an art teacher, who some of the girls felt was too "touchy feely" and in fact he got in trouble when some of the girls complained about him. So he always made me feel a bit uncomfortable. But I learned about the power of standing up for yourself with him, that if people spoke up they were heard. So I think that was a good lesson learned there.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
Low Carb Forum
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
Wolf
Offline
Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
Originally Posted By: Lisa - Buddhism
This is from the book I just posted a review on, Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate - http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art46929.asp:

"...you never get completely clear of your false desires. Even Buddha himself couldn't manage that trick. Those wonderful 'enlightened beings' who tell you they've achieved that rarified state are just con artists."

Do you agree or disagree? Do you feel there are a lot of Buddhist teachers making false claims out there? Do you think enlightenment is misrepresented?


Yes, there are may con artists going around, but Buddha got rid of all desires.




Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 468
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 468
Hi Lisa...this is a really great question and what you said here.....

"And the point of the book that I started this thread with is really that someone does NOT have to be a perfect example of following all the precepts, etc. in order for us to learn from them. In fact, we may learn more from someone who struggles with things like this, and shares his or her process with us honestly, so that we don't constantly feel we ourselves are falling short."

I agree and I wonder if we excelled with any one thing to the point where we believed it was perfection, would we be halted by ego or enlightened and which would help others the most? I think you're right that many people give up too easily on some spiritual journeys because they simply don't feel worthy of the goal because of their shortcomings, which we all have. But how would any of us ever grow, if we don't take the leap.....excellent question Lisa, I read a great book a long time ago {If You Meet The Buddha on the Road, Kill Him} by Sheldon B. Kopp, Have you read it? It talks about your question, let me know if you have and what you think about it.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
OP Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
cdmohatta - Yes, I agree. I think sometimes in the effort to make Buddhism more accessible, enlightenment gets watered down to the point where Buddha just sounds like a smart guy with a good heart, and it was/is quite a bit more than that! But it is a fine line to walk, with so many teachers out there.


Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
OP Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
Sue - I have read If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, although it's been awhile, but I do think it covered this entire theme so well. We have to have some sense that there is a better way to live, a state we can 'attain' in order to practice at all, and yet we can get trapped in that idea, and just keep projecting some perfect state that we never attain, and thus deepen our sense of samskara and disappoinment.
I was just reading Chogyam Trungpa's Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism, which I might write about next week, and it covers this theme so well too, especially in relation to spiritual teachers, and how we have a tendency to either project perfection on to them or rip them apart.


Lisa Erickson, Buddhism Editor
Buddhism Site
Teaching and Private Session Website: Enlightened Energetics
Blog: Mommy Mystic
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Lisa - Buddhism 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Brand New Posts
Make It Sew Easier
by Cheryl - Sewing Editor - 03/27/24 04:34 PM
2024 - on this day in the past ...
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/27/24 01:31 PM
Planner Template Kit - Weekly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:39 PM
Planner Template Kit - Yearly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:37 PM
How to Use Digital Planner Template Kit
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:36 PM
Review - 20 Illustrator Color tips Helen Bradley
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:32 PM
March Equinox to June Solstice
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/26/24 12:27 PM
Hobotrader unleashes never seen opportunity with i
by Jamal molla - 03/26/24 11:55 AM
Psalm for the day
by Angie - 03/25/24 09:05 AM
Genealogy, Sort of
by Angie - 03/24/24 05:39 PM
Sponsor
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2022 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5