 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988
Parakeet
|
Parakeet
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988 |
Well hang on... Maybe I misunderstand you. THis is a Buddhist forum. The question is: "Do you believe in Re-Birth? Is it essential?" I assumed (wrongly it seems,) that it was addressed to Buddhists as re-birth forms part of Buddhist teachings. So why suddenly are we talking about concessionary opinion to Christans, mentioning Reincarnation, and the elimination of the two? This is kind of off-topic, isn't it? THis forum is either run to discuss Buddhism, and buddhist-related topics, for Buddhists, with contribution from other denominational beliefs - or it's run under the auspices of Buddhism, but with concession and open-house policy for christians and non-Buddhists to discuss willy-nilly what they think in relation to their own beliefs, but with no, scant, or little knowledge of what the Buddha taught. Let me know which it is, because if it's the latter, you'll forgive me if I protest. have any Christians and non-Buddhists here actually bothered to do any research on Buddhist teachings and topics, as a primary point of discussion, before sailing in with their opinions? Wouldn't it actually be rather polite of them to do so? Tell you all what: Read , and then we'll discuss. How's that? Alexandra,just to again clarify, Lisa asked both Buddhists and non-Buddhists in her initial post to share their views on rebirth: "Please answer the poll and post your own thoughts or questions on rebirth. If you are Buddhist, do you consider belief in rebirth essential to your path or irrelevant? If you are not Buddhist, how do you view rebirth and/or reincarnation? If you are interested in another (slightly heady) debate about whether or not believing in rebirth is essential to being a Buddhist, check out this article in Tricycle magazine, http://www.tricycle.com/feature/3857-1.html. Looking forward to your responses!" So, in this particular thread, the offer was open to one and all to share their beliefs about rebirth.  Shay
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988
Parakeet
|
|
Parakeet
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988 |
The really funny thing is; when I think about reincarnation or having previous lives for myself - that doesn't bother me so much.
It is the thought of my children's soul not being "their own" - that it is someone else's soul, not one custom made for them that I stick at.
I guess because I see them - they are so definitely unique individuals.
I can't even say that it is a Christian thing vs. a Buddhist thing - it is just this mindset I have. Ah. I think I get where where you're coming from now. It appears that it really isn't about spiritual beliefs, but the belief that your own children really aren't "yours," but someone else's preformed personalities, and it creeps you out? Does that sound right? If I do understand it right, it seems to be more about your need to feel that you created brand new human beings, that you can rear, mold, and take credit for. It then becomes about your attachment to them and how they represent you, rather than who they are as individual entities, separate from you. Yeah? I'm hearing you say that you don't mind the thought of yourself being reincarnated, yet don't you think of yourself as a unique individual? Shay
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
|
|
OP
BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207 |
Well hang on... Maybe I misunderstand you. THis is a Buddhist forum. The question is: "Do you believe in Re-Birth? Is it essential?" I assumed (wrongly it seems,) that it was addressed to Buddhists as re-birth forms part of Buddhist teachings. So why suddenly are we talking about concessionary opinion to Christans, mentioning Reincarnation, and the elimination of the two? This is kind of off-topic, isn't it? THis forum is either run to discuss Buddhism, and buddhist-related topics, for Buddhists, with contribution from other denominational beliefs - or it's run under the auspices of Buddhism, but with concession and open-house policy for christians and non-Buddhists to discuss willy-nilly what they think in relation to their own beliefs, but with no, scant, or little knowledge of what the Buddha taught. Let me know which it is, because if it's the latter, you'll forgive me if I protest. have any Christians and non-Buddhists here actually bothered to do any research on Buddhist teachings and topics, as a primary point of discussion, before sailing in with their opinions? Wouldn't it actually be rather polite of them to do so? Tell you all what: Read , and then we'll discuss. How's that? Alexandra,just to again clarify, Lisa asked both Buddhists and non-Buddhists in her initial post to share their views on rebirth: "Please answer the poll and post your own thoughts or questions on rebirth. If you are Buddhist, do you consider belief in rebirth essential to your path or irrelevant? If you are not Buddhist, how do you view rebirth and/or reincarnation? If you are interested in another (slightly heady) debate about whether or not believing in rebirth is essential to being a Buddhist, check out this article in Tricycle magazine, http://www.tricycle.com/feature/3857-1.html. Looking forward to your responses!" So, in this particular thread, the offer was open to one and all to share their beliefs about rebirth. Shay Alexandra, I think Shay covered it here. The initial post was explicitly open to all opinions. As I said, the article that I posted the same day was in fact about the difference between rebirth and reincarnation, but the poll didn't link to that or make it clear, and the thread wandered off in another direction. I could have made separate threads, and maybe will in the future. Frankly, at the time I posted this, the forum had had no activity for awhile, and I was just trying to drum up some activity, so made the poll very open-ended. Since there's no limit on the number of active threads, I don't see why the forum can't include both Buddhist discussion and interfaith discussions. Each person can decide which threads they want to participate in. From the Buddhist perspective (and maybe this should be spun off into another thread if you are interested in discussing it), what I found interesting in the Tricycle article linked to in the original post was that 'belief' in rebirth was not intrinsic to being Buddhist, because the truth of rebirth is a realization that should arise naturally from practice, i.e. not be a metaphysical concept held to be true prior to its naturally arising during practice...that is what I was trying to address with the question to Buddhists, 'is it essential?'
Last edited by Lisa - Buddhism; 01/17/09 11:15 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
|
|
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313 |
Shay, thank you for that article. In case people don't know it, Bob Thurman is Uma Thurman's father. The name "uma" means "Flax, lumionu' and is also another name for the Hindu Goddess Parvathi. it also alludes to Compassion.
The discussion is very complex to follow, indeed, and of course, with Thurman's obvious leanings toward Tibetan buddhism, the word reincarnation pops up several times.
Being Theravadan, I find it difficult to absorb reincarnation concepts, vis-a-vis Tibetan buddhism. Difficult, but not impossible. As with all matters of this nature, perhaps the best option is to keep an open mind. They discuss much current literature that focusses on 'Past Life' research, which is a lot less fanciful than many assume it to be....
I stick with the catchy wisdom of Monsieur Voltaire.....
Lisa, as Editor of this forum, of course you are at liberty (wihin reasons, I would guess!) to run this forum as you see fit.
I would however caution you (as one who has had Moderating experience) to watch carefully that matters are not over-run by people coming in to post in th guise of participation, but who have nothing more to lay on the table, orther than their own viewpoint or agenda.
This is not - I would hasten to add, happening here. I'm not saying that.
But the prevalent problem in past times was that there were an awful lot of people coming in with a view of diverting discussion and being purely argumentative.
Buddhism is arguably the only 'Godless' religion on the planet that I know of. An awful lot of people find that both difficult to accept, and a threat to their own premise.
Opening the forum to such a wide variety of Buddhist discussions, but with the view that this should be open to all, regardless, is a path strewn with pitfalls.
Take care.
With much metta,
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207
BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
|
|
OP
BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,207 |
Shay, thank you for that article. In case people don't know it, Bob Thurman is Uma Thurman's father. The name "uma" means "Flax, lumionu' and is also another name for the Hindu Goddess Parvathi. it also alludes to Compassion.
The discussion is very complex to follow, indeed, and of course, with Thurman's obvious leanings toward Tibetan buddhism, the word reincarnation pops up several times.
Being Theravadan, I find it difficult to absorb reincarnation concepts, vis-a-vis Tibetan buddhism. Difficult, but not impossible. As with all matters of this nature, perhaps the best option is to keep an open mind. They discuss much current literature that focusses on 'Past Life' research, which is a lot less fanciful than many assume it to be....
I stick with the catchy wisdom of Monsieur Voltaire.....
Lisa, as Editor of this forum, of course you are at liberty (wihin reasons, I would guess!) to run this forum as you see fit.
I would however caution you (as one who has had Moderating experience) to watch carefully that matters are not over-run by people coming in to post in th guise of participation, but who have nothing more to lay on the table, orther than their own viewpoint or agenda.
This is not - I would hasten to add, happening here. I'm not saying that.
But the prevalent problem in past times was that there were an awful lot of people coming in with a view of diverting discussion and being purely argumentative.
Buddhism is arguably the only 'Godless' religion on the planet that I know of. An awful lot of people find that both difficult to accept, and a threat to their own premise.
Opening the forum to such a wide variety of Buddhist discussions, but with the view that this should be open to all, regardless, is a path strewn with pitfalls.
Take care.
With much metta,
Alex Hi Alexandra, the Tricycle article was actually part of my original post, that Shay was reprinting. In retrospect that probably could have been a separate thread, as combining it and the poll (and making the poll so open-ended) has led to a wandering thread... I appreciate your advice on moderating...I am not aware of the past history of this forum (I read back a bit, but not that far) so we will see where it goes. I would have a problem with people doing straight proselytizing (i.e. Buddhism is wrong because__________) type posts, and would halt those. In this case, I was fine with the open discussion on rebirth/reincarnation that occurred. I want people who are new to Buddhism, or members of other religions that are interested in it, to feel it is a place they can post, and even challenge, Buddhist views, if it is done in a respectful way. Call me a dreamer:-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988
Parakeet
|
|
Parakeet
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988 |
Lisa, you are not dreaming at all! I love that you are opening up your forum to all who wish to respectfully participate. It has happened in many of the BellaOnline forums that people wander in and begin belittling the basis of the forum itself. You are correct that it has not happened in your posts thus far. Another thing to be wary of is things shifting in the other direction in your forum, as well intentioned Buddhists can come out swinging in defense of their beliefs, against folks who have been invited to share their views, but have not been argumentative or disrespectful in their posts. I don't get the impression you want welcomed members to be cased away from posting at all! In either case, as moderator, you hold the whistle! Shay
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor Chimpanzee
|
|
BellaOnline Editor Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189 |
Well, as one of the "strong arms" that generally does the chasing, I hope y'all will let me know straight out if my comments are out of line. I can take it!  After having to do MUCH political moderating during the elections I know that two hottest places to be are the Religious and Political forums (although arguments have broken out in some of the most surprising places, too!)  Back to your reply Shay Ah. I think I get where where you're coming from now. It appears that it really isn't about spiritual beliefs, but the belief that your own children really aren't "yours," but someone else's preformed personalities, and it creeps you out? Does that sound right?
If I do understand it right, it seems to be more about your need to feel that you created brand new human beings, that you can rear, mold, and take credit for. It then becomes about your attachment to them and how they represent you, rather than who they are as individual entities, separate from you. Yeah?
I'm hearing you say that you don't mind the thought of yourself being reincarnated, yet don't you think of yourself as a unique individual? Yeah, it does creep me out to think there might be a Ted Bundy soul residing in my son (or daughter!) Although it does not have much to do with how I can mld them, I just like to think they are "clean slates" that they can become whoever they want be - not someone they are pre-programmed to be. (I do not like to think my parents molded me, so I don't want to try to "make" my kids into who they are, I just want to protect them until they can find who they are.) I guess the reason I don't mind it for me is that I do see the romantic side of it, and I already know who I am, so I don't worry about it so much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
|
|
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313 |
I have always held issue that when approaching other denominations' fora, we are expected to at least learn something about theirs, or have some primary knowlege on the subject.
Not difficult, I grant you, given that the majority of Western Buddhists grew up in a Christian country, even if their home was not practising.
I feel it would be respectful therefore if other non-Buddhists were to venture into discussions on this forum having at least accumulated a little prior rudimentary Knowlege on Buddhist practice regarding the topic in question.
Wouldn't it be nice if they did a little homework before venturing to expound their own views on the matter?
Or is that being unrealistic and overly-demanding?
And if so, why?
The reason I am pressing this point is because as a frequenter on 5 other Buddhist Fora - this is a pre-requisite of any non-Buddhist participating.
Or at least their wishing to learn something, being a condition of their joining.
What's the point of entering into a discussion and not knowing something about it?
It's a bit like my attending an avionics conference, and having no knowlege on the subject, but giving my experiences of flying to Milan on holiday.
Very interesting, yes thanks - but - what's your point, with regard to avionics?
Last edited by Alexandra; 01/18/09 01:00 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988
Parakeet
|
|
Parakeet
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 988 |
Yeah, it does creep me out to think there might be a Ted Bundy soul residing in my son (or daughter!)
Oh dear! Well, I can see that - sheesh, a Ted Bundy would be creepy... Although it does not have much to do with how I can mld them, I just like to think they are "clean slates" that they can become whoever they want be - not someone they are pre-programmed to be. (I do not like to think my parents molded me, so I don't want to try to "make" my kids into who they are, I just want to protect them until they can find who they are.) Okay, yeah I'm seeing more clearly what you mean. As I understand it, souls aren't really pre-programmed at all, but come into their lives with cumulative experiences and certain "goals", but also with all of the free choices and free will of an innocent being. Every lifetime is a fresh chance for gaining wisdom and insight. I guess the reason I don't mind it for me is that I do see the romantic side of it, and I already know who I am, so I don't worry about it so much. Ah! But your children feel the same way about themselves... Shay
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor Chimpanzee
|
|
BellaOnline Editor Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189 |
But my children don't even think about thee things! LOL! You know, I really wonder if part of it is that with all the rage issues my oldest son has (the one with Asperger's) that I'm really scared there IS a "bad soul" inside him. When he goes into those Mr. Hyde type rages that seem like a different person from who he really is, it is almost like he is posessed. I know intellectually it is his disorder and other problems that have caused these things. But when I am staring my own child in the face as he is choking me? It is not so easy to think rationally. Sorry -I really HAVE hijacked this thread! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
