BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Buddhism Poll: Do you believe in rebirth? Is it essential?

What a truly fascinating exchange! As I have understood it, reincarnation was indeed included in early Christianity, but then it became a political issue. Since Pagans believed in reincarnation, and the spiritual power of the goat, Christian leaders of the time felt they had to push the idea that the "devil" had goat-like features. And that all of nature was separate from "God" and represented fear and darkness. Since Paganism was twisted into something of the devil, the concept ofreincarnation had to be made evil, too.

Michelle, what an interesting take on reincarnation. The "used" and "reused" soul.

As I understand it, the unique soul that we are simply makes transition into new and different circumstances, in order to learn things they never could in one body. I personally don't believe in the "one chance" theory - there simply isn't enough time or opportunity to experience true empathy and understanding in a single lifetime.

I remember being here twice before, and these memories have enriched my life tremendously. I understand loss and wealth in ways I never could have in this lifetime - they just wouldn't have come up under such unique circumstances, and within such different time periods. I have references to experiences that broaden my spectrum and add a depth of understanding about life. I have come to understand reincarnation as essential in becoming a whole, complete individual. I can't say why most people don't have recollection of their past lives, but I can't imagine my life without them.

Shay

Hmm...I wouldn't think of it as "reusing a soul" Michelle.

I have been taught that we come back to live life until we have learned all the lessons that we need to. Or have taught all the lessons we need to.

Sometimes we need to teach more than we need to be taught.

Yes, it's interesting to me - a lot of descriptions of awakening or enlightenment experiences in Buddhist stories are very similar to Christian descriptions of being born-again. And in most forms of Buddhism, reaching that point means you will not reincarnate, or at least have the choice not to reincarnate, because there are no longer latent karmas pulling you back. So there are a lot of interesting parallels...

The big difference is that in most Buddhist teachings, there isn't one born-again experience. There are insights/awakening/satori/samadhi experiences (the words used vary by tradition) over and over on ever new levels (many within meditation), that over time lead to a person's complete freedom/enlightenment.

are we talking about Re-Birth, or Reincarnation?
The two are quite different.

The really funny thing is; when I think about reincarnation or having previous lives for myself - that doesn't bother me so much.

It is the thought of my children's soul not being "their own" - that it is someone else's soul, not one custom made for them that I stick at.

I guess because I see them - they are so definitely unique individuals.

I can't even say that it is a Christian thing vs. a Buddhist thing - it is just this mindset I have. I can't imagine a newborn baby with the soul of my great-grandmother. And after I die, I don't wish my soul with its faults onto an innocent newborn either. (I am soooo no saying my grandmother had major faults, just the opposite - she was an amazing woman - just realized how those two sentences wounded together!)

Yahhhh! I don't know how to explain myself on this.

OK. Let's just get this a bit straight and iron out any confusion:
Buddhism as a religious Philosophy, (Or a Philosophical religion, take your pick)ascribes to the concept of RE-BIRTH.
Re-Birth is a Kammic Priciple. It is a direct consequence of your actions. This link explains it very well.

Reincarnation is not a Buddhist premise. This is not classical Buddhist teaching.
But it is ascribed to by Tibetan Buddhism in that it believes that certain elevated Lamas and Tibetan Gurus, are able, on a higher level of Awareness and Wisdom, to re-direct their re-birth so as to manifest within the physical existence of another. Therefore, the Reincarnated Lama (or Tulku, as they are primarily known) is a composite of the Lama that was and the Being who is.

In short, rebirth is a moral or kammic principle whereas reincarnation is a meta-physical principle.

if we're going to discuss re-birth (on a buddhist forum), it would be as well for some to do a little research before commenting on something that is apt to cause confusion and lead the topic in a different direction entirely.

Hi Alexandra, actually, that is exactly what the article I posted on the topic was about (http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art46824.asp), but in relation to this discussion I'm not sure it's the main issue...for many Christians the issue is simply does any part of us recur, and of course traditional Christianity as it exists today says no...the belief is a substantive or metaphysical soul that moves to another plane after death and does not, at any level, recur as human again, so that would eliminate both rebirth and reincarnation...

Hi Michelle, I think the 'unique' thing is what gets a lot of people...but neither reincarnation or rebirth undermines the idea that every being is unique...the levels that recur are subtle, not at the personality or physical level...the unique combination can never recur again...

Well hang on... Maybe I misunderstand you.
THis is a Buddhist forum.
The question is:
"Do you believe in Re-Birth? Is it essential?"

I assumed (wrongly it seems,) that it was addressed to Buddhists as re-birth forms part of Buddhist teachings.
So why suddenly are we talking about concessionary opinion to Christans, mentioning Reincarnation, and the elimination of the two?
This is kind of off-topic, isn't it?
THis forum is either run to discuss Buddhism, and buddhist-related topics, for Buddhists, with contribution from other denominational beliefs - or it's run under the auspices of Buddhism, but with concession and open-house policy for christians and non-Buddhists to discuss willy-nilly what they think in relation to their own beliefs, but with no, scant, or little knowledge of what the Buddha taught.

Let me know which it is, because if it's the latter, you'll forgive me if I protest.

have any Christians and non-Buddhists here actually bothered to do any research on Buddhist teachings and topics, as a primary point of discussion, before sailing in with their opinions?
Wouldn't it actually be rather polite of them to do so?

Tell you all what:
Read , and then we'll discuss.

How's that?

Alexandra,

I'm sorry if my being in this conversation has upset you.

I did read the article, I was just trying to explain why I have a personal struggle with reincarnation, more as a person than as a Christian.

I have very much enjoyed learning about Buddhism through this site and this forum. In fact, it is one reason why I have changed many of my spiritual viewpoints.

No, I am not a Buddhist, but I hope I can still learn from the teachings. That is why I come here. My debates are done in the true spirit of debate - not trying to change someone's mind.