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Cara N. Offline OP
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Hi Shay,

Lemonade is always good. wink
Life throws us curve balls sometimes. You are right. It's up to the individual to overcome his or her wounds, and turn them into great gifts of life.

Cara

Last edited by Cara -Philosophy Editor; 08/29/09 03:24 PM.
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Michelle,
Thank you for pointing out fear, jealousy, and selfishness. I think fear is the source of all evil (little "e"s). It's interesting that you use big "E" and little "e" to distinguish the degree of evil. I think of the big "E" as away from God, and that was what I meant by ignorance in my article. I believe that all little "e"s stem from the energy of the big "E" because we are all connected in the Universal consciousness.

Cara

Last edited by Cara -Philosophy Editor; 08/29/09 03:24 PM.
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When man saw something good that he did not understand or for which he had no words, he called it "God". When man saw something bad that he did not understand or for which he had no words, he called it 'Evil'. These psychologically loaded terms have been used by many powerful people to manipulate The People and we need to avoid using such overarching terms. If one looks behind so-called 'God', one will discover the true, more specific basis for the term, ie gratitude, nurture, generosity, kindness. If one looks behind and beyond so-called 'Evil', one will find the underlying basis for the term, ie hate, greed, stupidity, ignorance, violence, etc. God/good, Evil/Devil. These uber-superlatives should go away from our common language and the more specific words be used which will always enable people to get at the true, underlying reasons for events.
Many (if not all) Native American languages had no words for 'us' or 'them'. And the names of their tribes translated to 'The People'. They realized that all People just ARE and words that separate People, one from the other, are negative as well as incorrect. We are NOT separate from each other and we need simply to return to a time when all people were Human Beings, connected and reliant on each other for survival. The trappings around us have changed, but our interconnectedness has not.
The day I saw George W. Bush state emphatically that "Evil is real", I knew that he was wrong and that it was just one more attempt to separate us from our brothers and sisters around the world. If one will look to common folks around the world, we all want the same things; safety, health, happiness and it is only those in powerful positions around the world who separate us from other common folks, an alliance with which would prove to be too powerful to be overcome by The Powerful Ones. What we see portrayed in the media are ideas which will frighten and separate us. If you pay close attention, you could quickly come to the conclusion that those in power only rule because we allow them to. As Native American tribes suggested and our Founding Fathers stated, all power comes from We The People. Evil is nothing more than a bugaboo created to frighten people into obeying. Things and events just ARE and it is only man who proscribes events with mystical origins.
If a cat kills a mouse to eat, is it Evil? If a man kills a steer to eat, is it Evil? If people harm others from a place of unconsciousness or ignorance, is that Evil? If people plan and scheme to harm from a place of greed or fear, is that Evil? I don't believe so.
I asked this same question of several friends only last week and the responses were varied. Emphatic at first, most said that, yes, Evil was real. When I suggested to them the ideas above, they all said that they would have to give the matter further thought. None of them hung tightly onto the idea that Evil, this formless entity or force, was actually truly real, but more likely is an invention of Men and not a basic fact of nature, or even spirituality.
It is a thought-provoking idea that drove me to google-search the question, whereupon I found this forum. It is good to know your are all here. I'll be back...

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I do agree, marsreb. "Evil" is a manufactured label place on things that are deemed either "unlikable" or "unacceptable." And they vary between individuals and cultures. If there were no such words as "good" and "evil" we could each simply dismiss what we don't find "likable," choose to disassociate ourselves from it, and move along toward what we find "likable." It would also be way easier to identify actions or words coming from the insane and leave them alone, would it not?

Shay


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I don't know.

I just keep seeing Charles Manson. Obviously insane, but I think he qualified as truly Evil, too.

I don't see fire and brimstone behind everything that goes wrong in this world, there are plenty of mistakes and accidents, but I do think there is some Evil.

I guess this is just one of those areas that I can't really prove, that I just feel - if that makes sense?

It is the flip side of my faith I suppose is the best way to phrase it.


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I understand your take, Michelle. smile

But for me, Charles Manson was (is) simply insane. His followers were on heavy drugs, which altered their sense of reality, rendering them insane as well (perhaps they were insane before the drugs) - they believed that he was "good." "Evil" is just a word we are conditioned to attach to things that make no sense to us, when juxtaposed to "good." If it isn't lovely ("Good") it must be "Evil" ("Devil.") The Manson group felt they were doing "good" by destroying "evil" (i.e. society was evil, and Sharon Tate exemplified "evil.") I just noticed something - god is just one letter away from good and evil is just one letter away from devil...interesting.

I think of it this way. If there is a wild storm, and lightning strikes a child then vultures and worms come and eat what is left, are the lighting and vultures evil? Or is it just a part of the ways of nature? Is it horror, or is it the foundation of all life?

Human beings have developed a fabricated understanding that they are apart from nature; that the laws of nature are something that have nothing to do with humanity. That "God" is separate from nature and "the way." It is an artificial belief that humans have a separate system - a belief concocted by men who craved power, and manipulated old scrolls written before they were born, (which probably contained some actual wisdom) which were then kept from common people, so that they could not decide for themselves what they may have meant. There is nothing but a thin veil of belief that keeps it alive - if they believe it, they "feel" it - it is called "faith." Beyond that, there just "is." There is darkness and there is light, and any mixture of the in-between, that is all.

Shay

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I believe that there is evil in the world but I dont believe the devil can make you do anything or that satin has any power to control people. I think there are just people who have so little respect for others or themselves that they do not care who they hurt or how they do it as long as they get what they want. I have met people who have no conscience and I have met people that went beyond that into soulless or no spirit at all! and for whatever reasons, I believe, they choose to become what they are no one made them that way.
I also dont think evil has a religous cornermarket or the lack of evil either.. it is an open door anyone can walk through with no discrimination!

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I think in Mansons case he comes from a long line of evil insane people but which came first the choice to do or be evil or the insanity? If you are raised in a family like that and that is all you ever know as normal... I think this would be a prime case of the sins of the father are visited upon the sons type of thing but the Sons never the less had a choice to be different if they had wanted or tried to be. there had to be people who tryied to help him along the way that he just turned away and that was his choice.

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Originally Posted By: MysticSophia
I think in Mansons case he comes from a long line of evil insane people but which came first the choice to do or be evil or the insanity? If you are raised in a family like that and that is all you ever know as normal... I think this would be a prime case of the sins of the father are visited upon the sons type of thing but the Sons never the less had a choice to be different if they had wanted or tried to be. there had to be people who tryied to help him along the way that he just turned away and that was his choice.


You bring up a very interesting question, MysticSophia. Do people have a choice not to be mentally ill? Is the potential for being a sociopath genetic, and is perhaps triggered by abuse? In his early years, Charles Manson felt things deeply. He loved his mother unfailingly, and defended her honor no matter what she did. And she did some pretty dicey things. Her family had some characters in it that were equally mentally "off." It wasn't until his mother abandoned him that something died inside of Charles. He had a breakdown, and instead of help, he got caught up in more abuse, in the system. With every episode of abuse, he became more acclimated to being a part of the underbelly of society. Was "normal" ever a choice for Manson, or was he born with the inclination for mental illness, triggered by horror? Is this "evil" or just a means of experiencing the darker side of life - something nobody with a clean bill of mental health would want to do? Is Manson different from the boys who gun down their own schools and malls? (Only he never gunned anyone down...)

I read as much as I could of this excerpt of his book "Manson in His own words" before I felt the sick heartbreak of watching a dog being tortured, and realized I'd seen enough.

After reading it, what do you think? Is sociopathic mental illness "evil?" Did he ever have a real chance to be "good?"

Shay

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im of the belief that sometimes sociopathic mental illness can be demonic oppression or possession. this comes from a pervasive foundation in the belief in heaven and hell.


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