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Amoeba
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I think often about this question and how it affects how we view our political lives. I'm curious as to how the rest of you feel.

Do you consider yourself a feminist?
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Votes accepted starting: 05/12/08 09:47 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
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I consider myself a pro-life feminist in the grand tradition of Susan B. Anthony.


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I do not consider myself a feminist. What my ancestors did for the feminine my more recent predecessors have made very ugly. I just don't like what feminism represents anymore, to selfish and too much 'me'ism' in an effort to feminize even that which should not be feminine. Does that make sense? I have changed my mind after watching behaviors I found appalling I guess. And I am not that old, so that can't be it.


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I understand what you are saying Calligrapher.

It is almost like some in the feminist movement are not only trying to get women treated equally as men, but want women to be men.

Sometimes I feel the feminist movement has taken away our right to be feminine. If we don't act tough all the time, then we are somehow letting down other women.

Like me, a SAHM, I'm one of the biggest let-downs the feminist movement has - yet I feel like I should be able to celebrate my choices just as much as the female CEO.


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Oh yes, I get that as a SAHM. If I bring my children out in public I really get it sometimes! Yet many famous feminist women have died alone and childless and lamented that fact. It's not all they pretend it to be. I am feminine, I am a woman and a strong one at that. I parent, I teach, I nurse, I contend with a child's rare and random genetic deletion, I diaper, I homebirthed and breastfed for pity sake. Yet, I ride 4 wheelers, can change my own oil (though why bother when you can pay someon to do it at your house these days)work on my Suburban, paint, build, run a tiller. There needs to be balance in life. Living on either end of an extreme isn't healthy. My sons will be masculine men, my daughters will be capable women. I figure if some militant feminist doesn't like me, too bad. Too much Celtic blood in me says they can lump it. smile


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I am a very strong woman who was raised by a Dad and Step-Mom who told me,
"Female or male doesn't matter-You're a thoroughbred. Run your own race."

I also like the Indian saying,
"A lion's cubs are lions all, male and female.
Both have teeth and claws."


"Allow your dreams to become your plans."

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Let us define what we are trying to be or not to be shall we:
(From Answers.com)
Feminist:
1)Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2)The movement organized around this belief.

I pick number one and I AM a firm believer in that definition and what it stands for...what "I" am or am not is totally MY business what others may think is their's...that IS what equality is all about afterall...


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The question to answer is what defines "social, political, and economic equality." To me political equality is the right to fully participate in our governmental society. It would include the right to vote, to speak out on issues, and to run for/hold any office. Economic equality would include the right to employment in any job for which you are qualified and the right to be paid the same as any other employee for the same work; the rights to own property and make your own finacial decisions. Social equality is something I have more trouble defining. It would include the freedom to fully participate in society as an autonomous individual, as compared to places where women are restricted in what they can wear, what they can do, whether they can drive, etc. It would be interesting to see how others expound on these rights.

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Originally Posted By: calligrapher
I do not consider myself a feminist. What my ancestors did for the feminine my more recent predecessors have made very ugly. I just don't like what feminism represents anymore, to selfish and too much 'me'ism' in an effort to feminize even that which should not be feminine. Does that make sense? I have changed my mind after watching behaviors I found appalling I guess. And I am not that old, so that can't be it.

I am totally with you on this. A feminist "friend" spent a year and a half verbally abusing me over my personal beliefs and decisions on how to live my life. I decided right then and there that if that is the way feminists behave in the name of feminism, I wanted no part of it. If people have to get ugly and mean in order to further their cause, that tells me right there that their cause is not good. She eventually apologized but then dropped me as a friend when I had my 3rd child and was completely a stay at home mom. I honestly don't know what I did to turn her so against me. I am glad I am done with her and with having to hear about her cause.


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Sadly, without exception EVERY marginalzed group has HAD to get ugly and mean in order to actually HAVE what is constitutionally theirs by law...I am guessing it is a good thing that some of us do not mind fighting those fights. My grandmother is 101 and she can tel some stories about the plight of women fighting for the vote; she knows because she was there...

If you think you know what happened then peruse this(and THIS was a small beginning):

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I think those that choose to stay home and raise kids and/or be housewives have threatened the feminist movement so they (feminists) take on a defensive stance. After all, they pretty much fought to be able to have a pretty different lifestyle from that and by choosing that lifestyle over what they fought for might negate their purpose.

However... there are enough women who also choose to be career women, working wives and/or mothers, that I don't feel those who choose to stay home are negating the purpose of feminism at all. They are exemplifying the FREEDOM we have to CHOOSE!

I've actually recently encountered more attitudes AGAINST the working mom, so I am seeing a different aspect here... on one local board I visit regularly, my peers are saying that Sarah Palin should not be running for Vice President because she has 5 kids, one of which is special needs and one of which is 17 and pregnant. They feel her place is at home with the kids.

These are supposedly liberal-minded democrats who typically support women in the workplace... the one who is most vocal (in particular) is a mom who runs several of her own businesses from home.

It boggles MY mind that women (WOMEN!) who are supposed to be liberal would be so judgmental and sexist when it comes to a fellow-woman's choice to work. I would much rather see criticism's over her politics/beliefs/platform than judgment based on something that men never seem to have to worry about.


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I just want equal pay for equal jobs. Women haven't been given the advantages in the past that we have now. It takes a long time to catch up.

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When people start reaching for criticism in something like that, truth be told, they've got nothin else - they're desperate and/or threatened.

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I've still been pondering this. In my women's studies class we are learning all about feminism and based on what I am learning, I would say that a true feminist cannot be pro-life. Not based on their (the textbooks and what they are teaching) standards.

I say this because we were given the example of the women's sufferage movement. There were women who only wanted the right to vote and didn't really care to change anything else. They were not true feminists. The true feminists are the one's who fight in every area of inequality for women, including reproductive rights. So the people who call themselves "pro-life feminists" are not true feminists in that sense because they are cherry-picking which causes they support or don't support.

As a side note, I found the official "feminists for life" website today but have not yet had a chance to look it all over to see exactly where they stand on the abortion issue and what they are wanting to do about it.

Last edited by toddzgrrl02; 10/02/08 10:33 AM.

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Now that I'm an adult and have talked to lots of women, I realize I was raised a little differently. I hear other women say that girls are socialized to be mothers and caregivers. Not in my house.

I was told to go to school, go to work and don't look at boys, don't like boys, don't have children. My parents meant well truly they did and as an adult I understand what they meant. As a teenager they didn't want me to get too involved with boys and get pregnant. But there was no balance. Never once did they say "when you get older and start your family..."

So there I was 28, married and pregnant, I kept hearing my father's voice in my head: "have two and three kids and it ruins your life." I was groomed to be a provider NOT a mother. So this caused a lot of internal conflict and turmoil. In short I do have some feminist sensibilities in terms of being independent, working and providing, but wouldn't say I'm a card carrying feminist or anything like that.

Last edited by leahmullen; 10/02/08 07:30 PM.

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Originally Posted By: toddzgrrl02

I've actually recently encountered more attitudes AGAINST the working mom, so I am seeing a different aspect here... on one local board I visit regularly, my peers are saying that Sarah Palin should not be running for Vice President because she has 5 kids, one of which is special needs and one of which is 17 and pregnant. They feel her place is at home with the kids.

These are supposedly liberal-minded democrats who typically support women in the workplace... the one who is most vocal (in particular) is a mom who runs several of her own businesses from home.

It boggles MY mind that women (WOMEN!) who are supposed to be liberal would be so judgmental and sexist when it comes to a fellow-woman's choice to work. I would much rather see criticism's over her politics/beliefs/platform than judgment based on something that men never seem to have to worry about.


Well the thing about Palin is that when you consider the whole hearth/home/family first rhetoric that the Republicans spout, you can't help but wonder, well WHO is and has been taking care of Palin's five children when she's out governing? If it's her husband or another family member well alrighty then. But if it's a paid nanny...it's just hypocritical I think.



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I've read plenty of interviews that explains who takes care of her kids. It's not hard to find. She has a large extended family who helps her with the kids.

Even if it was a nanny, so what? There are a lot of rich people who employ nannies so they can work from home and not be interrupted constantly, or so they can work outside the home and know their kid is cared for. How is a nanny any different than sending your child to a daycare or babysitter? I'm a republican and I don't take issue with moms who choose to work outside of the home. I am one. I think attitudes are changing and people just don't want to see that. If working and having kids at the same time means your family is not coming first, then we have a lot of families out there failing right now and not putting family first because MOST families cannot get by on a one wager earner income.

I just don't agree with that sentiment. For the longest time this is what feminists have fought for, and now that they are getting it and people in the public's eye are doing it, they still aren't happy. Instead of giving women credit and encouraging them, we are going back to the whole, well she isn't putting her family first attitude. The republican party may have held that opinion in the past, but younger generations are getting more involved and they have a different opinion.


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Grrl, I have been all over the forum today making up for lost time and am seeing you all over it. I assure you I am not stalking you! Here's an article I wrote "Feminist, Womanist or Simply Woman" it might give you some good places to start research for your class, I remember I had some good research links...BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!


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Ok...there's the link again. I see how I screwed that up!! You guys have a good night!
Feminist, Womanist or Simply WomanBellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!


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Hey, stalk away, at least it's intelligent conversation! LOL I always appreciate that, even if we don't always agree. Thanks for the link. I'm going to go read that now.


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Disagreement is how people learn from each other! I always enjoy it, as you say when it's intelligent conversation....the other kind just makes me want to go nuts! :-)


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I voted yes...I am a feminist.I believe that all women should be treated as equal in all facets of life.

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Hi, Michelle.

I came across this post late, obviously. You know, I AM a feminist and I agree with you completely. I don't know when feminism came to be associated with anti-traditional-femininity. I think it's about *choice* for both men and women - that all of us should have the same options. Sometimes the more vocal among us embarass me completely.


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Hi, I just came across this post too, but thought I would chime in. I voted yes in the poll, but hesitated, for all the reasons mentioned above. I especially dislike the 'mommy wars' and all the books out there on this topic - you know, all the 'working moms' vs. 'SAHM' media and books out there - and unfortunately I do think some of the feminist rhetoric from the 70s and 80s contributed to the tone of that debate. But I think that is moving into the past. I think there are lots of women now who identify themselves as feminists and are SAHMs, and embrace femininity etc., and represent a variety of political and religious views also.

I was just reading an interesting book called Taking Back God: American Women Rising Up For Religious Equality that is kind of related to this. The author interviewed Christian, Jewish and Islamic American women who all consider themselves very devout, but also identify as feminists in the sense that they have problems (to varying degrees) with the restrictions placed on women within their faiths. So they are working to change things, and working to reconcile their faiths and their feminism.


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[quote=calligrapher]I do not consider myself a feminist. What my ancestors did for the feminine my more recent predecessors have made very ugly. I just don't like what feminism represents anymore, to selfish and too much 'me'ism' in an effort to feminize even that which should not be feminine. Does that make sense? I have changed my mind after watching behaviors I found appalling I guess. And I am not that old, so that can't be it. [/quote] I agree with you, it seems like women who are feminist just thinks that they should outdo me. The idea of being feminist has changed throught ime.

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I'm a feminist AND a non-feminist. Like someone said before me, balance is the key. If you lean too much on one side of the feminism and non-feminism debate, you're probably losing some of your strengths as a woman. We have the power to be both strong AND feminine (not to be confused with "feminist"). That's another thing, some people tend to confuse the world feminine and feminist, when the two words are different, yet somehow connected as well. But they still need to be distinguished.

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Be careful of whom you vote for. Weiner, for example.


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Nope. I'm not a feminist or masculinist. Each individual has the right to be what they want and do what they want, provided there's no harm to others.
I'm glad my honey fixes the car, takes out the trash and is handy with electronics and computers.
I'm glad to make most of the meals, laundry and 80% of the housework.
I'm glad to occasionally check the oil and change the anti-freeze in the car.
I'm glad Al loads the dishwasher and sweeps the floor occasionally.
Each person has their likes and dislikes. To me Feminism means being an aggressive activist. Being angry, self-righteous, judgmental and man hating. I'm none of those things. Don't get me wrong--like I said to each their own, but Feminism is so NOT my cup of tea.

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LOL, I like my doors being opened and my man paying for our dates. Now as far as being independent just in case he dies or leaves me for some other woman - that is ME. The word "feminist" can sometimes be taken to the extreme. Now I have nothing against any woman that wants to get under her car for example and work on it, but that is so not ME. If I don't have a man in my life at the time I need the car repair, the car gets parked in my driveway until I can afford to pay someone to fix it. I LOVE BEING a pampered LADY wink

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