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Although most Americans accept the "separation of church and state" as constitutional, when in fact it isn't, in the light of the Texas Polygamist Sect Seizures, to what extent and for what reason do you believe the Government has the authority and/or responsibility to enter private property and wrench children away from their mothers on the basis of an anonymous and questionable complaint from someone pretending to be a victim? Remember, so far, no proof of any wrongdoing has been established and no charges have been laid against anyone----yet little babies and small infants have been separated by force from their mothers who are not being permitted visitation rights of any kind.When is it right for the Government to do this and when is it crossing the line?


Tony King
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I think they have already crossed the line (the Government). Just think of all the confusion, depression, fear, trauma they are inflicting on the children by doing this. I admit I have not kept up with the entire story, but so far, I see no reason to have taken the children away from their mothers. And the ridicule the mothers have been receiving for their style of dress is terrible and undeserved.

Our laws are so archaic, I think, in some instances. Just because one person made a statement of accusation, several children and mothers are suffering.

Constitutional? Sounds more like Dictatorship to me.

Last edited by Phyllis NatAmEd; 05/01/08 09:40 PM.

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Phyllis Doyle Burns
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Hi Phyllis:

I think the frightening thing is that so many American people are agreeing with the Governemtn action, just because these people do not "fit the norm".
Any Government that can get away with total neglect of the laws of arrest and swift trial, is only a stone's throw away from full dictatorship.
And who is going to accept the blame abd responsibility for the damage suffered by these kids?
And .... the argument about 13 and 14 year olds being pregnant and that's enough reason for the Government action??? Walk into any large public school in America especially in urban areas and watch the "Government" hand out condoms to 13 and 14 year olds.
Aren't they therefore responsible for these "children" getting pregnant --which is the very thing this group is being maligned for??


Tony King
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I know my daughter and I have been watching this whole thing on the news and reading about it in magazines as well. Of course, this all began with a phone call. I also feel for the mothers as well. It would be a terrible thing to be separated from your child. I can't even imagine the pain of that. On the other side of it, Polygamy is against the law regardless of whether these women were innocent or not and I think what they are trying to establish is to find out through DNA whether these children are inbred.
This situation is a cult, not a school district. it is very obvious in that regard. And on the other side, I don't have much respect for our government considering they can break the laws that they make, but we cannot.
As I stated in another post somewhat on this topic, when do you ever hear of women manipulating men like this and basically having a farm set up with all their men on it and having them wear certain colored clothes to represent their ranking in the family.
These women are victims and the children as well. And yes, we as human beings are good at mocking anything or anyone that is different from us. That is a built in fault of the human being.
Unfortunately, for this situation, their idea of peace and tranquility is no more. They are being scrutinized to the full degree and once again, where did all the men go? They took off running. So really, who is the guilty ones. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. What a mess...

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I am going to have to read more on this issue. Did all the men really take off? Where are they?

Tony, it is true that our society (and government) turns quickly on anyone who is not considered normal in their beliefs or lifestyle. Probaby all cultures and societies think the same. But, now days, what is normal? Until I read more on this issue, I do not understand why this one group was targeted when there are so many "abnormal" groups and situations out there among us. I understand that polygamy is against the law, so maybe the gov't was just looking for an excuse to bust in there with a reason, so they could break up this community.


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Phyllis Doyle Burns
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Hi Phyllis:

YEs indeed ---what IS normal????

At the moment my big question is : Where is the "mole"??? the police undercover agent who was supposed to be a member of this sect for the past four years. Where is his report? Why has he not been brought forward to verify the "alleged" actions of the sect? Why have no charges been levied against anyone and yet in spite of that fact these mothers cannot get access to their on children. As for these babies and kids being placed in foster homes---we all know the state of foster care in this country.
Another interesting aspect of this case is this: We have all heard so many reports of arranged marriages in both Moslem and other religions and yet no raids are taking place there?
And so that everyone knows----I would classify myself as a strong conservative Christian who would disagree very strongly with these sects and their Biblical interpretations. But whe any authority can breach constitutional rights against one segment of society, and get away with it, it is a small step to breach constitutiona rights for ALL segments of society.


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Hi Bahrain:

Sorry for the delay in replying.

First of all we need to remember that all we have are allegations against these people --even the "polygamy" charge has not yet been established, except in the minds of the mainstream press ---and we all know how reliable they are !!!LOL

At the moment this situation is not a cult since nothing has been proven in court ---all that can be said is that they are a group of people living differently to the "norm" of society, and that fact alone doesnt make then evil.
And even if it is a cult-----as opposed to a school district ---BOTH entities are responsible for the physical and emotional well being of underaged children and you and I both know that there are many school districts which could be said to be
"contributing to the sexual delinquency of juveniles" when they willingly provide birth control methods and even abortion information adn assistance to underage students. All I am saying is that it is hypocritical for the government or any authority to force the families of this sect apart on the basis of alleged sexual abberant teaching, when the government knows that many school districts are guilty of the same thing and none of them are being raided or torn apart. If any government seizes these children of this sect becasue of alleged sexual and other abuse, then , to be perceived to be fair and righteous, shouldn't it seize ANY 13 or 14 year old who gets pregnant along with the father and the adults who are supposed to be in charge ? But what happens in reality is that in such a case, Planned Parenthood and other groups use taxpayer dollars to support and provide such a sexually active teenager with all that is needed to "get on with life".




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Tony,

I think very much the same as you do. If constitutional rights can be breached in this case then others are just as easily breachable without warning. I think the constitution has been used and abused to the point that it is no longer an acceptable document. It seems it is relied upon only when it "suits" the authorities to further their "reasoning". I do not feel safe knowing that the Constitution will not protect me or my family. As a matter of fact, all my life I have seen and heard evidence that the Constitution is only an old piece of paper that does not really do anything for us. It was written in good faith with good intentions - but, it really does not matter what is says because it really is rarely taken into consideration and adhered to. I do not adhere to or agree with cults, (and I do not know for sure if this is a cult we are discussing here) but I do think "motherhood" has been attacked in this issue and their rights abused. "Suffer the little children," is the result of this action. How many years will it take, I wonder, for the children to overcome and live happy lifes or to ever be happy again?


Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain

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