I brought this up a few months ago in the Early Childhood forum I believe, about Corporal Punishment in school.

My elementary school had a paddle with holes drilled in it for less wind resistance and it had the words "Board of Education" printed on it.

In 1993, I was living in Florida and the schools still did corporal punishment there but they needed parents' permission. I would never give them permission so the principal called me one day when my oldest boy was acting out and asked if he could bring my son home so I could spank him and then he would take him back to school afterward. I said sure so when the principal brought him home, I told him that I would be keeping him home the rest of the day.

I was livid that he would call and ask me something like that.

There are still 23 states that allow corporal punishment in schools as well today. It is unbelievable.

I don't care what they call it - physical punishment is child abuse! Plain and simple. When I was in junior high school, I did not have my white shirt one day to "suit up" for gym class, because my mother had been working outside the home and had not yet done our laundry. I was sent to the Principal for a "swat" with a paddle like Vance described and got my swat on the butt and it stinged like crazy! When I told my father that night he was livid and went to the school the next day and really gave them whatfor!

Corporal punishment has been illegal in New Jersey since the 1890's. It did still happen when my parents were in school, in the 1920's and 1930's, but I never heard of it when I was in grade school in the 1960's. The sad part is that the law included ALL schools when it was written, but "private" schools still continued with it much longer.

An even sadder outcome, I think, is that , by the time I was a teacher in NJ, we were told to never touch any child for any reason, ever. That included a pat on the back or a hug for an upset child, because it might be misconstrued.

It would be wonderful if we could find a rational compromise, but no contact is better than corporal punishment.

When my little 5 yr old boy was scheduled for hernia surgery..I notified the school that he absolutely was not to be paddled for anything..The school had a policy of corporal punishment for any small thing..We had gone round and round with them for their "cruelty"..I threatened them with a suite but got no where..
Well, my ornery little one found a pair kids shoes laying on the playground and he tossed them over the fence..The assistant principle, (who weighed 300 lbs), whipped him severely from his back to his ankles. He was criss crossed with red marks..
I didn't notice them until the evening at bath time..He was a tuff little guy and didn't want me to see his hurts..It took my breath away to see those marks..So of course I went back to the school and raised a fit..They acted like it was nothing..We ended up taking him out of school for the rest of the year and by the next year they had changed the CP policy..But guess what..That assistant principle went on to work in another school..We lost track of him..but I'll bet another little kid received his wrath..It damaged my boy, not only physically but emotionally..He never liked school after that..And school became a struggle for him..

I grew up in a large city and was educated in its public schools in the 1950's and 60's. This city has a reputation for being very free-spirited. Interestingly, corporal punishment was against the law there, so, I never encountered it personally. Even with the reputation my city had, students were overall well behaved at school. We were polite to our teachers and, generally, our teachers received respect. It seems obvious, to me, that a well-disciplined student body can be achieved without beatings and spankings. If it was possible to have well behaved students in that city, it could happen anywhere.

I think what made a big difference was that, for the most part, parents of my peers layed down the law at home. They made it clear that, if they heard anything negative from the school about their kids, there would be serious consequences at home. Everyone was afraid their parents would "kill" them. Of course, "kill" wasn't meant literally; but consequences were feared.

It seems to me that things changed when drug use became so much more prevalent not only among kids but with parents, too. It doesn't seem like it's just a mere coincidence that the drug culture came along about the time that discipline at home and at school started to break down.

The prevalence of drugs, though, isn't the only problem affecting our schools. Ironically, the advances women have made in the job market have reduced the pool of really bright women available for teaching positions. It's too bad more states do not pay teachers on a scale with private sector jobs. This would have the effect of attracting the best minds to the teaching jobs and would reflect the idea that really good teachers deserve to be rewarded. Another problem with our schools seems to be teachers' unions. There are so many cases of bad teachers whose jobs are protected by the unions. Arrrrgh!

Over time we became homeschoolers for our kids. It's a great alternative for many people who are disappointed with what has become of our schools; but I know not everyone is free to provide homeschooling for their children.

They turn in parents for less. This is ridiculous. It is too bad that half the bullies in the school are the adults.

This issue really could be considered a mixed bag simply because there are some many variables involved. I can remember being in second grade and I was out of my seat and my teacher grabbed the wooden paddle and told me to come to her in front of the class. Well, instead I ran around the room and drove her completely crazy to the total amusement of the rest of my classmates and the worst that happened was I ended up in the principals office.

I was spanked growing up by my parents and I really don't regret them doing that due to it showed me that there were boundaries to not cross and things that just weren't tolerated. And let me tell you, I don't disagree with spanking a child. I did with my children not very often, but there were times also and my kids are eighteen and thirteen now and my daughter and son know their boundaries and they know what is expected of them and what I expect of their behavior in public, etc. And I have to be honest in saying I have two really great kids. A son who is the most loving son I could've ever asked for and a daughter who I am damn proud of because of all of her academic achievements and she is on her way to graduating Valedictorian in May.

I was raised with the spare the rod/spoil the child. For me, I believe it's true. I see kids in my community with no discipline whatsoever and these kids are heathens. They destroy property, hit other kids, drug use, alcohol use, sexual violence, etc.

And all their parents ever say is that my child would never do something like that when the evidence is staring them in the face, they still refuse to accept responsibility.
I think over the years, many parents got lax in raising their kids and laying down the law. I don't think it's a school's responsibility to discipline the child. It's the parents job.
The parents should be teaching their children respect, honor, and values, not how to get high or how to commit crime and get away with it etc etc.

So yes, Corporal Punishment in school to me is wrong because if the parents would discipline the children and teach them boundaries, then the school wouldn't need to do anything but their jobs of teaching our children and helping them to prepare for life when they graduate.

Well I just wanted to sort of point out that actually kids behavior is much worse now than when they did allow corporal punishment. Yes I was spanked as a child way too much and it ended up not being effective at all, so too much of it is not a good thing at all. Some kids do not respond to "talking" at all and in my opinion kids do need discipline. I would not want to be a teacher these days, I don't even have my 12 year old in school, we home school now. I honestly don't have a good answer for this but again you have to admit that some of the old ways did work and what they are doing now is NOT working. You have kids that are so dis respectful and I see parents who don't parent, it's a problem.

Thought I would quote these two lines as I try to make my point.... although they pretty much sum it up. If todays parents were actually willing to put forth any kind of restriction and discipline, then kids would behave, and there wouldn't be any form of corporal punishment. If you would actually be parents and control your children it wouldn't be an issue.

But since you are either too lazy, too "high and mighty", or simply trying to raise your children to be "free spirits". The schools are forced to do it.

I know when my nieces go to school, they act out constantly. They are also in a school that, thanks to liberal parents who won't discipline their children but will most deffinently sue the school for trying, will not control them in anyway. Sitting in the back of the room on career day, I watched the same group of kids disrupt class for nearly 4 hours. The teacher was unable to teach, the children unable to learn.

But I guess thats ok with you... It's more important that your children are never disciplined, and can live free, rather than actually get an eductation.

When are people going to figure out that beatings are not going to solve anything? There will always be the tough kids who think that taking a whipping without crying makes them look even tougher and in reality just piles more resentment in on top of whatever emotional upheaval that is already going on.

They offer perks for good grades I wonder what might the results be if the schools offer some really nice perks for good behavior? Positive reinforcement might be a better way.

If that doesn't work, the hard cases that are disruptive should be isolated so that the other children won't get the misguided idea that the bad guys are cool.

Excellent ideas that i mostly agree with... but is this the schools job? I thought that's what the parents are supposed to do. Be parents. When I was raised I was punished for doing wrong, and praised for doing good... Especially in school.

I was shocked and horrified to read the stories that some of you shared. I had no idea that corporal punishment still continues today. I expected, being the year 2008, that teachers were no longer allowed to strike a child. This is definitely a topic I will write an article about. I want to thank each of you for sharing in this discussion.

I would like to point out, though, that just because a parent chooses not to spank does not mean that the child receives no discipline. There are, quite honestly, healthier ways to discipline a child. Assumptions should not be made that children which are not physically punished receive no discipline at all.

Yes I can post hundreds of studies that show that spanking / beating a child makes them more anti-social and disruptive in the long run.

Saying someone does not discipline their child if they do not spank them makes no sense. It's not logical. It's like someone doesn't feed their child if they don't feed them pizza every day. There is a HUGE difference between unhealthy discipline and healthy discipline.

Do some people not discipline their kids? Certainly. Just like some parents beat their kids. But neither is healthy. You should properly discipline your kids - just like you should properly feed your kids.

I know a ton of teens who are brilliant, well behaved and were never hit. I also know of a ton of teens who were hellions in the 50s and 60s. I think people who have an idyllic view of "older generations" are looking with rosy colored glasses ...

Hmm I think i was taken a bit out of context, I completely understand there are plenty of other ways to discipline a child. The point i was trying to make, is that I disagree with the idea of having schools do the work of discipline. I feel that should be the parents job. And especially when it comes to being rewarded for good grades. Schools shouldn't be rewarding kids for doing what they are supposed too. Parents should.

Skeeter, I agree with you. I think it is also the parent's job to discipline their children. I also think rewards should come from the parents. Great point! :0)

Skeeter, I agree with you. I think it is also the parent's job to discipline their children. I also think rewards should come from the parents. Great point! :0)

my mother told my school administrators if they ever used the paddle on me she would come down there and use the paddle from head to toe on them and make sure she nails thousands of nails with the sharp points out in it first. Under no circumstance would she allow her kids to be paddled by a school.

They never did. Once a principal took out a paddle when I had been sent to his office. I told him he better think twice before he did. He laughed and still came after me anyways. Luckily the secretary popped her head in when she found out it was me in the office and said "do you know who his mother is? I woulnd't do that if I were you and wanted to keep my job!"

You see, my mom was the babysitter for most of the districts administrators and teachers throughout the years. If they were employees of the school district and got referred to my mom, she interviewed them and considered them for the job. So she had babysat the superintendants kids and so forth. She even babysat a few judges and lawyers kids for good measure. The threat was real.

The point I am making about this tirade? My mother considered discipline her job, not the administrators. It was her plce and right as my mother to smack my butt when I got into it. However, she never did spank me. All it took was a look from her knowing I was disappointing her and thats all it took. It might have helped that she took a wooden spoon out of the drawer when I was younger and smacked it on the counter, and thus it shattered. She told me if I didn't want it to be my [censored], I'd learn to respect her, her rules, and to behaive. All it took was that look or a couple steps towards that drawer to scare me straight (not literally obviously). Was it fear on my part that made me listen. I do not think so. it was the fact I learned there wrere boundaries that I could not cross and if I did I would have to face the consequences of violating that trust she placed in me.

I'm glad that you were able to avoid any kind of physical discipline. And i'm glad that you felt it worked. Personally though if I would have ever even considered telling the principal of my school "I told him he better think twice before he did" I would have gotten tanned for disrespect.

oh, mom didn't like that one either. I was punished something fierce for that

I think I had to spend my recesses with him for the next month or so doing whatever he wished which involed a lot of line writing, cleaning and sitting there being bored