define 1. a) to determine or set down the boundaries of b) to trace the precise outlines of; describe exactly [define your duties] 3. a) to give the distinguishing characteristics of* b) to constitute the distinction of; differentiate*...
*like familial relation, ethnicity, job, and mood, perhaps?
I think i have understood what Alexandra is trying to point out... a recognition of an essence that transcends everyday labels. But I was trying to respond to her question as she stated it from a practical position. She asked, "What is there left of you that defines 'Who' you are?"
And herein lies the 'problem'.
We still attempt to define this in a way that is too literal, too basic. I really wasn't actually seeking a dialogue from "a practical position" at all. That's my point. Keeping the discussion at a practical, "mundane" logical level, fails to address the central, vital question.
There is always a relation of some type to define you... if not a role, nationality, job, etc., then something else... so what is that "else" going to be?
MY POINT EXACTLY!!
What indeed...??!Think for a minute... how is saying, "you are you and I am me" so different from saying, "You are Alexandra and Skeeter and I am holly?" They are all reference points distinguishing between us, just as other reference points might be used.
Now we're getting somewhere...!!
Descarte is famous for declaring, "I think, therefore, I am." This statement seemed clever when he published his little book, but from both a logical and philosophical standpoint -- it didn't take long for philosophers, mathmaticians, and logicians to prove his statement to be a fallacy of cyclical argument... get this... because it has no external reference.
BINGO.
if you follow it through, the mystical sense of self does not have to say it is not a role (mother, employee, caucasean, etc.), any more than it needs to say that it is,... yes?
Yes, agreed. But what is it, then?
In contrast, however, the practical definition of self needs distinctions and reference points to know who we are.....Our individual experiences and the things we identify with, develops our understanding of BEING an individual, so why reject all that now?
I am not seeking an abandonment or rejection. Not at all. What I am seeking is this "What are we" cental focus, that enables all these things to actually rise and become even more significant and wonderful. I am in fact seeking to accentuate them, not dismiss them.
Quite the opposite....
How could we have any understanding of ourselves without those things?
It is only by understanding ourselves that these things come more into play than ever.... we need these things for the outer Picture. They're the paint, if you like.
I am suggesting you seek the canvas.....
Oh Holly, this is such a great discussion, thank you so much!!
