Hello,
as the new philosoohy editor I thought I would hit the ground running in forum-land with this topic. I would love to hear some of your thoughts and perceptions on the symbol of Tree of Life vs. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. I was discussing the topic with a friend who shared with me her view that these symbols are historically accurate, conveying a literal event in time. I on the other hand expressed the idea that they are metaphoric and meant to convey a deeper level of understanding.
I would love to hear any and all views on the matter or anything else of interest.

Hi,
From my perspective, the Tree of Life is the continuing Life of those who have been rooted in the firm belief and understanding of God. They are, the living representatives of a living God.
The Tree of Knowlege of Good & Evil represents the fall of Man. Those who wrote the biblical story of God, had to have had some first hand understanding, of the separation of God and man,themselves.
The Wholeness or Oneness of God, implies no separate Consciousness from Himself or His Creation.
The separation will always come from man, when forgets his Godly connection. In that moment of lack, or thinking he knows better, or wants more, man forgets, his connection to the All, and falls into the separation and duality of the mind.
The true understanding of Gods Oneness, cant be experienced in duality. Hence the fall from Grace. Grace being a state of Oneness with God.
What has come from the fall of Man, is the salvation and Resurrection given with the coming of the Christ.
Christ being mans salvation, in that His Love of all mankind denotes the Oneness of the Heart of God, where no duality is ever implied. Instead a triplicity is seen. The three persons as One God.

Hi and Welcome to the boards!!!

I think the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil was or is a real tree. the tree of life is a metiphor for God and His people... God is the tree we are the branches.

sorry I dont have anything to back that up just me! lol

as for the symbols...I have not seen them....

Or shall we say- God is the root?

that works for me too!!

Hello freebubbles3,
Thank you for the welcome. Don't be sorry for you insight, you don't need evidence for that!
I've been loving the responses.

me too it is kinda interesting how people look at it a different way and take it in other directions....

That is very interesting. I never thought of them as metaphors but I suppose they could be. Then again is the Garden of Eden a metaphor or was it real? I think that was real because it's location is described in the Bible.

How about these for metaphors? Did Jesus actually make a physically blind man see or is it a metaphor for being blind to the goodness that is God and Jesus and could only see worldly stuff?

Did He heal a leper or was the man just not complete before knowing Jesus?

Vance, I think the answer is "both."

My take on the knowledge tree, is that we can't understand the bigger picture. We have the "vibe" and a bit of comprehension, but not enough understanding to keep us out of trouble.

Instinct and feeling, is possibly where we were meant to dwell. Cause, thinking (generally) is not a human attribute.

Hello guys,
I'm back...still getting used to arranging the schedule so that I can make posts regularly...bear with me.
Vance, those are actually very interesting ways to look at it. I think MomsPaula hit the nail on the head when she said that the answer is "both". What I would like to add to that is that the answer could also be more. For instance, Jesus healing the blind could also be interpreted not as him actually performing the healing, but rather him causing the man to acknowledge his own "wholeness". Notice when Jesus heals he does not remark on his ability to perform the miracle but rather he commands the individual to demonstrate their well-being.
Also MomsPaula, your take on the "Tree" is interesting. It seems as though your sentiment on man's inability to use their brains where it really matters is shared by many. I wanted to ask in regards to your comment, what do you see as the bigger picture and "who" then should keep us since we have a tendency to get into trouble?
Great Responses

Yes! to acknowledge or see, is something that is difficult for humans, (cognitive dissonanc, an' all) but I think it is the answer to most every problem.

The bigger picture is all of creation, I think. Who keeps us? a little-big thing called grace. And, possibly the occasional guardian angel.

To acknowledge or accept is also belief, or perspective. Perspective is also known as the quality of our lives.

Many say we are our thoughts. But, I think (he-he) we are feeling. But, maybe we are fundamentally sensation, that can feel, then think about it.

I do agree that humans are selective sifters of reality...but that is also the beauty of it...the brain receives at least 4000 billion bits of information per second while we only acknowledge about 2000!

Bitter-sweet! I love life.

I couldn't think of how to label this. WHo looks after us? our subconscious as well.

ok to Vance I think Jesus healed the physical as well as the mental emotional and Spiritual. the physical is easy to fix because everyone wants to live and feel better we do not want dis-ease but mental well if you think you are normal and life is great its everyone else should change, or emotional, we tend to wear our hurts like a badge or honer or as a shield or an excuse for bad behavior...and spiritual well if we do not want to recognize that we have a spiritual side or that there is a spiritual world... the point is we have free will and if we do not want or think we need to be healed then God honors us and does not step in.

to answers MomsPaula's question here is a different question!
Is the Holy Spirit our conscious????

the bible says that we must invite Jesus into our hearts and let the Holy spirit Dwell with in us so if the holy spirit is our Conscious then this would mean only christians have one...or the holy spirit dwells in all of us and it is up to us to follow or not so every diciden we make is either christian or non christian depending on if we follow (christian) or not (non christian) our own conscious.

that was stated akwardedly.... sorry about that!

Religion is man made. Following religious beliefs is following what our fore-fathers and mothers have gained in truth. Using these truths correctly, is another matter.

THe holy spirit is more (I think) in connection with our sub-conscious.

I believe the holy spirit is the feeling (or close proximity to)that enters us at any and every moment of the day. We feel. Feeling generates emotion within us. (Sadly, emotion carries history, so our reaction can be jaded - not fresh) However, emotion spurs thought, and action.

And, yes I think we need to me mindful of ill winds or evil spirits.

It depends on how you now define 'Religion'...
If you mean a calling or faith, then yes, it is a Human-Construct. But Religion, in the sense of a Godhead, creed and representation of a deity is something that is inherent in any culture that believes there is a God there in the first place.
The only true 'Man-made' religion, is Buddhism. We venerate the existence of a Man, his teachings and example, and have named our religion after his awakening (he wasn't Buddhist, himself....). There is no God in Buddhism, not one at all. so I would say that this is the only truly 'Man-made' religion there is. Every other religion is an on-going debate.....and one I am not going to stick a spanner into....

A little too technical for me. I think what ever we touch is soiled, or man-created.

MomsPaula, You have a point. LOL a little to technical for me!

Alexandra, I think your right every culture has a built in religon system of some kind. but lets take you for instants You were raised Catholic but you are now a Buddhist, so Buddhism was not a cultural inherated thing for you but you choose that religion.... ok you are a bad example!!!

mmmmm.....well let me make one up! hehehe

ok lets say I was raised Nazarine but changed to Wiccan. I inherated the Nazarine but choose Wiccan. both religions have there basis in a culture but I was only raised in the one culture that is whole heartedly againsted the other.

so my religion would be Nazarine (christian btw)and my calling is Wiccan...

How do you explane the ones that change from one religon to the other? they are both Religions and basised in a cultureal setting?

when does a Religon become a calling?

WOW talk about taking the long way around a question.... sorry!

Well, if you take my example, I changed from a Christian Religion to an Asian or Far Eastern one... But if you think about it, Christianity is fundamentally concerned with worshipping a Deity whose Earthly birth origins were Arab, and from the Middle East..if it hadn't been for a specific directive, we'd either be Jewish (as Christ was....) or Moslem (both religions see him as a prophet.....) So why did God not choose to bring his Son forth in a Western society? It puzzles me, but not in a confrontational way... I'm curious as to whether any Christians have views, opinions or reasons....

I remember reading a report interviewing Christians in America, about perhaps approaching the Bible in the original Aramaic or Hebrew(I could be wrong here on original language, so I humbly crave indulgence and seek pardon if I am incorrect....)and one Baptist minister stood up and announced - quite seriously - that if English was good enough for Jesus his Lord and Saviour, then it was good enough for him....!



I guess I'm guilty, if you like of using this term frequently...
I refer to Buddhism as my calling, for two reasons:
One, some people do not accept, or personally view Buddhism as a 'Bona-Fide' religion, (Though I do) due to the notable absence of a God, so rather than say I converted to Buddhism (it's hard to convert to something when there's strictly speaking, 'nothing' to convert to...!) I prefer to say I considered it a calling to a different path....
Secondly, again, on a personal note, whilst I was 'born' into Christianity, and therefore, through Baptism, "ready made", I made a conscious decision to commit myself to a different Religion, through study, thought and personal Choice. I thought about it long and hard (I've been studying Buddhism for 16 years, but only officially 'Took Refuge' (or "converted" - !) in 2002....) So for me, it was a very definite turn in the road.... a conscious and deliberate decision to seek elsewhere....

Hope this answers your question....you know FB, I am always more than delighted to engage with you and answer as best I can.... though as I always try to point out, I only ever speak for myself and of what I have personally learnt or experienced... I'm no Buddhist 'spokesperson'. So every Buddhist has a different tale to tell of how they came to it....

I haven't read through this entire thread, just the lasr post by Alexandra - so if my comments seem from left field - sorry! (I'll go back and do my homework when I have a few free moments)

But the last church I attended (we are in between churches right now) was technically a Southern Baptist church, but the lead pastor was anything but your average "good ol' boy". He has a degree not only in theology, but in historical theology - the difference which I understood as being he studied the history, geography, and languages of the biblical times. I always enjoyed his sermons, because he not only preached, he taught.

He quite often would refer to the original Hebrew and give the different interpretations that had been translated. It really did give a very different view of some verses that had either been taken for granted or even ignored.

Michelle I think I would love to hear this preacher preach too.

Alexandra, I throughly enjoy asking you questions because you are so non judgemental and answer in a forth right honest way for yourself! I love that. and thank you for answering my questions! I some times worry that I dont word things right or I will ask something and someone will get offended because i used the wrong term or the question was just upsurd to begin with!

I can honestly say I have learned a great deal from everyone on this Site. and I thank you all for that!!!!

I went to church the other day with my husband and my in laws and the Preacher at my old church is just filling in and I think he is a wonderful man and a great Paster but he teaches at the prison and has another job and he doesnt want to be the Paster of any church at this time.

His sermon was about Zackara (sp) and how he was pulled in different direction. Gabreal came and told him that Sarah was to have John the Baptist and he was pulled by doubt and facts and by Faith in God. he when on to say how this generation doesnt care where the church draw the line or where the schools or parents draw the line. and how that is a bad thing because we flounder trying to fine boundries. But he said that it was high time that we as Christians stopped focusing on the does and donts and who we think is going to hell for what and started Focusing are priorities back on Who is God and Where does God draw the line because when its all said and done Does God really Care all that much what label we put on ourselfs? He also went on to say that the churches are divided on homosexuality issues, theological issues and all kinds of man made issues that have obsured the true nature of God.

I looked around at my once small church to find that there were a handfull of familys that I grow up with all older 50+ and there kids and familys and there was maybe 20 people there including the family members who lived out of town and just came down for Christmas. We use to have 100 or so on any given sunday and on holidays the church was almost packed 250+-. some have died and some have just qit comming like me and my husband for one reason or the other and gone to a new church or no church...
But I felt like I use to as a child..like I had walked into a home that I grew up in. no one pulled the "oh im so glad you are right with god." or Oh You need to be saved or even tried to get me to get involed in something church related. Every one that I talked to asked how you mom how have you been and we talked about our family and our lives and how we were blessed by God to be so lucky to have family and friends and how much we missed the ones not here with us. and when we started to leave no one said you need to be here every Sunday or anything like that it was We miss seeing you come visit us sometime or call and we'll get together for lunch.

Thats how I believe church, Religion or whatever you want to call it should be done!!! ok so I am way off in left feild and I have no excuse because i have read all the post here!
So to get back on topic...

So do you think someone who stays with there cutural up bringing has missed there calling or do you think that they were born with the calling they were born into?

Personaly, I think you have to grow up and make your own decisions about what you believe and if you find that what you were raised to believe is true and right for you then you should believe it but if you never search and put your believes to the test then you dont really know what you believe or why. but that is just me... and I am odd!

Bellaharmony, I have no doubt that the vast majority of Religious priests, deacons, pastors and Fathers in America are bright, intelligent and well-educated men and women.... Tis one incident amused me, and i recalled it and reounted as a humorous insert....But it's fair to say that those around this particular Minister howled with laughter, because they thought he was kidding....and their faces were a picture once they incredulously discovered he wasn't.... !! But I had no intention of causing any offence....frogive my mirth at someone else's expense!

FreeBubbles, my heart is warme by your expereince and of how much it touched, moved and uplifted you. I too believe, regardless of which faith you follow, that this is how the human heart and soul should feel, when a person connects to their God - or 'calling' - either alone, or in congregation.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama actually encourages those in their respective faiths, to remain there if they can, and to live their respecive Creed and Faith to the best of their ability. He states that it's not the specific religion, per se, that is the issue, necessarily...it is how that person integrates their faith and beliefs, into their daily life, and spreads the inherent Love around, and manifests and personifies their God openly in their interaction with those around them.

This is admirable and commendable advice, but for my own part, it was something I found impossible to do.
I refuse to transform this post into either a justification for my actions, or, more importantly, a possibly-perceived 'attack' on the Deistic Religion of Catholicism. Suffice to say, I could not come to terms with aspects of this faith adequately, to sincerely convince myself that staying put would be best for me.

However, I DO believe that some deistic religions baptise children into the faith too young. perhaps it would be more conducive to an increasing flock, if the children were guided, by instruction and example, to eventually exercise their ,God-Given Free will, to come to God and choose Him as their Calling, independently and willingly themselves, at the right time (ie, when they're old enough to actively exercise that choice....)?

Again, I am not seeking to be divisive, but if we permit people to, say, vote for specific political parties only when they're old enough to actively make conscious choices, surely, a following of God should be open to the same criteria...? It's just as important - if not more so! - as Politics....

Just another pointer.....

Oh, I wasn't offended! It is true, there are some very small minded people in the ministry, just like there are in every other part of life.

It actually reminded me of a program i saw one time on the KKK - the member was talking about Jewish people, and how they were inferior to Christians, and so on and so forth. And he tried to show Bible verses that supported his points of view (Because for some reason, KKK members all seem to think they are right-acting Christians). When it was pointed out to him that Jesus Christ was actually Jewish, he about exploded, yelling it was a "dirty lie" and so on.

Well, what nationality did he think Jesus was? Swedish?

I think that is the reason I chime in on so many of these discussions. I am not actually trying to change anybody else's views - but I want other people that might be reading these threads )that might not necessarily be participating)to see that there are intelligent, rational Christians out here - even if we can't type.

U n me both - hv u seen the typos in my last post...? I noticed them once I'd posted, but I didn't hv time 2 go back in n edit....

I ht txt mssgs 2....grrrr!!

what typos? i dont see typos?!!! we tape just fin hear @beela! nothin rong heere!!!

Hi,

I'm new to the forums, but the tree of life caught my eye. I've done some study on the subject (in my religion - your mileage may vary), my thoughts are more than just a few lines long. If you'd like to see them, they can be found here:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

That's it! Now you've done it... people mention 'Swedish' and I see the chef from the Muppet Show.... Complete with chicken in the basket....!
I'm just having a giggle thinking of Jesus walking on the shores of galilee a la swedish chef.....

Bad girl, Bella! Bad girl, Alex!! Bad, bad bad!!

"Byork, byork, byork, byork!"

ROTFLMAO!!!

oh well if that is the case I had a friend that knew one phrase in Swedish! it was Want some Snuff? so now I have this Chef with a basket of chicken walking the shore line saying in swedish Want some snuff YA? and sense I am a massage therapist who is trained in Swedish massage..... you get the idea!

LMAO

As a non-Christian, I can say I view it as a story, created to explain the woes of man (and woman.) But then, I take very little from the bible literally.

I do think that most humans are driven to try to understand and make sense of the world. A tough task, even with today's science, and much tougher thousands of years ago.

If viewed another way, knowledge builds upon itself (with occasional tear-downs, as we realize -- oh, that was wrong!), growing and branching -- like a tree from the roots up and down, and out. But I somehow doubt that was what the person who believes a literal interpretation means....

Okay -- just read more of the thread (sorry about doing things backwards!) -- and too funny about the Swedish chef! My dh gave me the first two seasons of The Muppet Show for Christmas (yes, we celebrate it -- in a secular way), and we've been having fun watching them with our son, who also loves them. The problem is, the darned music gets stuck in our heads -- and the phrase, "Bork, bork, bork!" AHHHHH!

Hey, I'm only about a year late with the discussion. Did you read Ishmael? it deals with these issues. I am an artist doing research for a painting of such. In most readings, the Tree of Life is good, and the Tree of Good and Evil is what has corrupted mankind. I'm not sure I agree with that totally. The Unification Church sees the Tree of Knowledge as symbolized by Eve. Whereas, the Tree of Life symbolized perfected Adam....that's messed up too. I want to share, however, the most interesting theory I have come across...

Adam and Eve are one reality, Adam representing the physical self and Eve his soul. (Now that I can believe!) The Tree of Good and Evil is the very world we exist in, a world full of dualitites....The serpent represents attachment to the material world (maybe things like our looks, our cars, our status, our things...) - the true source of evil. The Tree of Life represents the manifestation of God - source of all spiritual good and the true nature of man is to be spiritual. Though, he is both body and soul, the body is the vehicle for the soul to progress through life acquiring the spiritual attributes he will need in the spiritual worlds of God. So, when we forget our true reality, we become so cought up in the affairs of the flesh that we neglect our souls, and not only succumb to evil, we bind ourselves to it. Were the trees real or just metaphors, who could know??????