BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Wicca Do we need a list of wiccan rules?

In a word, no.

I think that is one of the things that makes Wicca so great is that there aren't any dogmatic rules. Which means that people in positions of power can't change and use the "rules" to their advantage. It is about people finding their own spirituality their own way.

I don't call myself a Wiccan, as I don't follow all of the technicalities that make one. But, as a Pagan, I still hold by my argument....

Totally agree.... Wicca is a Spiritual Path that is different for each person who follows it. The Rede is enough, anything more and it becomes dogmatic instead of dynamic.

So, if there are no rules can wiccans do something like human sacrifice? I mean, if there are no rules what are the limits?

An ye harm none; do as ye will

Go Robin!

lol....sorry it just tickled me that that was the first apposing agruement made... please continue.....

Well, it is true. I suppose human sacrifice would be Ok, if you had a willing participant. That would probably be pretty hard to come by though...

I've never had anyone attack me on this, but from reading other people's postings it does seem that a lot of people think of Pagans as being hedonistic. "If it feels good, do it" as opposed to the actual Rede. Not quite the same meaning...

Very interesting, now if one wanted to get very technical "human sacrifice" can mean alot of things, or I guess I should say in my mind it can

The Wiccan Rede is/are the rules..........If you can read that and still want to sacrifice someone....well....

Harming something/one is a perspective thing. Everytime you breathe, you are killing millions of microbes. Do we quit living to appease bacteria? Everytime we walk we are killing thousands of invertebrate creatures, yet do we quit walking to save these creatures?

Everything we do ends up harming someone or something. If a sacrifice is done for the right reasons, and the sacrificee willingly and knowingly gives him/herself over for that purpose, I say that the Rede isn't necessarily broken...

Any other thoughts? I don't practice any sort of sacrifice, but I think this post brings up an interesting rhetorical question...

We kill to eat...meat and plants are killed just so we wont starve...but I dont see the point in killing humans for sacrafices. I know all the blah blah about Jesus being the last Sacrafice but really what was the point in Sacraficing people or animals to begain with?

It is one thing to kill for food and to live but...just to kill something for a religios reason never made since to me.

Now if you put the sacrafies in terms of food...like I am sacraficing this apples life so I can get rid of the munches well that makes since but to put a person willing or not into the apples place is yucky!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it was Rae Who said that back in the old days the pagans saw sacraficies as a way to thank the animal plant or whatever for giving its life up so they may live and to thanks the powers that be for makeing the animal or plant whatever.

I dont see a reason to kill a human to make a sacrafices....with that said... I think that human sacrafies could mean a great many things. like a human giving up eating meat or a habit for somereason....

anyways....

I think back in the day they had valid reasons for having human sacrifices. In a more mystical time it sort of makes sense for them to have sacrificed humans to ensure that the things that sustain us keep happening.

I'm not sure why people would continue to do it now. Although, what do you guys think about the Santeria case going on in FL? WildHunt.org (a Pagan blog) has a bit about it. Basically, the people involved want to be allowed to sacrifice goats and such in the name of their religion. They city they are in isn't allowing it.

Though I won't be joining these people, I think that they fully have their right to perform these practices. I just don't know how society can have a problem with animal sacrifices when the vast majority of us eat meat.

I have thouroughly studied the religion of Wicca and while I agree that there are not rules, there are guildelines as there are in any religion or gathering. I would suggest you look further into knowing what you are partaking of before doing so. On that note always remember DO NO HARM

I think it was in a Joseph Campbell book that I learned this. But, a native culture in South America played a game somewhat similar to our American football. At the end, they would make human sacrifices. Who did they sacrifice? You would think it would be the losers, but that's not right. They sacrificed leaders from the winning team. Basically, by doing this, they set that person on the level of a god. I'd have to look up all of the ins and outs of why they did this, since it's been awhile since I read about it. But, I found it to be interesting. Basically, it would have been insulting if they didn't sacrifice the winner.

So, in today's day and age we can say "Oooo. Sacrifice bad." But without knowing the entire cultural things going on when this was taking place, we can't really say.

Also, in today's society, I think it would be a good thing for more people to sacrifice their food if they are meat eaters. I believe the roots of sacrifice have to do with "making sacred." I would say most of us don't really do that anymore in regards to our plastic-wrapped meat. If we had to look our meal in the eye, and then kill it and dress it, we would have a whole lot more respect for it. I think Pagans are more mindful of this, but I'm sure we could all use some work.

But, even the "Do no harm" part of the read could be taken a thousand different ways...

This would definitely make a difference in how humanely the animals were treated up until the time they were killed and eaten- IMO. I doubt many people could raise veal or geese for foix gras and still be able to eat it. My grandfather worked in a chicken plant when he was a teen. To this day he does not eat chicken, and he is 77 yrs old (and we live in the South - that's even more impressive!) But I think that diverges a bit from the religious aspect of the topic. Maybe... Of course if the sacrifice is about showing respect to the animal, then I suppose it really doesn't.

As for the Santa Ria case, isn't the issue (with the city) about cleanliness issues and possible disease from not handling and cleaning afterwards?

The "Harm none" part, there was a similar discussion going on in the Buddhism forum about not taking life, and what all that applied to (plants, bugs, viruses, etc.) The point was made that if it was non-sentient being (viruses, bacteria, molecules, plants) it was not considered taking a life. So the same argument could be used here possibly.

I'm not Wiccan or Pagan, so these are just some ideas looking in from the outside.

Absolutely. And also how they are killed - ie, humanely.

I deeply admire people who raise their own animals for their own meat consumption in order to reduce their effect on the environment and also so that they know that something didn't suffer to be on their plate. (As well as knowing what did or didn't go into that animal - ie, antibiotics, steroids, whatever.) I don't know if I could do it - but I am sure that killing your own food would give you a far greater appreciation of what you are eating.

Rae has also posted about a group of modern Pagans who had no choice but to kill a snake in their camp. The group was divided into those who felt they should then consume the snake in order to honour it, and those who felt they should bury the snake with a ritual in order to honour it.

I don't think talking about our food diverges from the religious aspect at all, depending on your specific version of Paganism. I would say most Pagans would agree with an interconnectedness between all things in the universe. In line with this, most of us also believe in a sacredness of all things. So, food is not outside of this at all. It is a part of our sacred experience, and any form of food deserves our respect since it is giving its life to sustain us. Even tofu...