BellaOnline Forums Education Art Appreciation Van Gogh

Hello everyone!

I bought this very old book from a neighbor's garage sale yesterday. It was about Van Gogh's life story prior to his death and his fame as a painter. I really feel bad every after reading a chapter in the book. It's like reading a very sad life story of someone so great yet under appreciated.

I liked hearing about how you related to reading his biography. I visited the room where he put a bullet in his chest, a stark chamber of a bedroom. Wasn't much there, but I was taken in the same way you were, by reading about his suicide anecdotes like...stale bread taken with beer to ward off suicidal impulses. There was such sorrow trapped inside with the genius.

Here's an image of the room and his tombstone...
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Yeah, would you say he was the most widely known depressed artist?

Van Gogh was probably the most widely known depressed artist if you are looking from the viewpoint of the malady itself. I think a lot of famous artists were depressed but their disease was just either never discovered or kept private. Van Gogh's brother was always there for him and I believe he is the one who insisted Vincent get help. "I could have told you, Vincent, this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you." The medical field was not qualified at the time or knowledgeable enough about depression to help him in time. Sad...very sad.

Strangely, experts propose that some artists owe their success to their mental illness. I tend to agree. The reason is that, although I am an artist and greatly enjoy doing art, I just can't fathom doing it so obsessivly. I have other interests and hobbies that take me away from artwork sometimes. I just can't do it day and night. But it seems that that is what's required to really make a mark in art. Any comments on this?

I think maybe you are right regarding artists of the old days when there was little they could do for mental illness or depression. As for the artists of today, there are so many other outlets for them and they usually do not depend on their art alone for income. I imagine most of the old Masters did not have a primary job to support them. On the other hand, someone who is obsessed with their art can create profound beauty.

I agree that someone who is obsessed with their art can create profound beauty. I also think they can create works of art that are not necessarily beautiful but masterpieces, nevertheless. But then again, maybe that depends on the definition of beauty. I have seen some art created by the mentally ill that is quite disturbing and even grotesque but at the same time, extraordinary.

The human mind is a mysterious thing. What lies in the depths of a disturbed mind can be beautiful or horrendous. Have you ever seen the movie 'A Beautiful Mind' starring Russel Crow. It is fantastic! If he was an artist, I think he could have created profound beauty.

I did see that movie, Phyllis. I thought it was quite poignant. I have always thought there was a kind of art to mathematics -- a sense of harmony and beauty.

There's just something about the expression of the human mind that is "beautiful" no matter what shape it takes. Even if it is grotesque, it is something to cherish. Perhaps I believe this though because I believe in the inherent goodness of The Child Within.

AS a teen I wanted to be an artist. I majored in fine arts in college and loved every minute of it. Many times the instructors would load up a bunch of us and take us to SOHO or so many of the other museums in Manhattan. (I lived in northern New Jersey at the time) I found the lofts of the artists in SOHO to be very inspiring but depressing at the same time and knew I just didn't have it in me to live only for my art. I still paint, and love all crafts as well as art history, and occasionally there is a painting in me which must be painted as soon as possible. But the lifestyle and the sacrifices of the "starving artist" I could never do. I new then that I needed more balance in my life and I think the life of someone who must live only for and through their art must be very difficult, painful and lonely. I love them for it and am grateful that they make the sacrifices that I could not.

I definitely agree that people who have an "extreme" personality can pour all that energy and power into their artwork and create truly amazing things. It is hard though - is it worth it as a culture to torture someone like that in order to have items of lasting beauty? What if we had a modern day master artist who was creating works that amazed the world - and we knew he was depressed. What if he wanted to stay depressed to maintain his skill. Would we try to "fix" him and take away his gift? That's true for so many artists and fields ... part of what makes them successful is the way they are, their ability to have so much focus and energy and drive in one area.

I do have to caveat that I'm sure there are artists who are happy and "balanced" and only do art part time and still create lovely things

I think the artist's of today, the really good ones, are much more balanced and in tune to their emotions. There are so many other diversions for them. Look at all the beautiful paintings of the old Masters or even up through Picassos' time and there are tragic stories behind their paintings. Now Georgia O'Keefe, I think, is a different story. I don't think she was depressed or had any emotional problems - she was a free spirit and just loved to paint. Very erotic, but pretty.

I totally agree with your caveat, Lisa. I don't necessarily believe that depression or any mental illness is always what drives master artists. I believe it is the drive to create.
I feel that drive, but it takes me in many directions and narrowing it to one was what I couldn't do. If you could take a poll of working artists they would all be interested in many things, but to be successful they must concentrate the energy and be willing to do without a lot of "things". At the time that I was visiting the artists in NYC they lived in 1 large room where they painted, slept on a mattress on the floor, cooked on a hot plate, etc. Sleeping and eating with the smell of turpentine around you 24/7 can be daunting. I know that sounds very materialistic, but those sacrifices are what I was speaking of as well as children and family. I know most of the masters had families, but few of them before the 19th century were women. I couldn't see myself having children in an artist's loft and the children were more important to me than the art.

My point is that while VanGogh was depressed, I don't think most masters are, just completely single minded and driven to create.

I don't think ALL masters were depressed, I am just saying that back in those times, depression was a little known illness and during those times there was a lot to be depressed about. There were Old Masters who were not depressed and did beautiful work.
Mary Cassat is one of my favorites, she painted beautifully and portrayed a mothers' love very endearingly.

It seems that what some of us are saying about devotion to art could be said about many other careers. I read recently of a man who was doing genetic research. The interviewer was absolutely amazed at the man's devotion to his work. The man had a family but he literally spent nearly every waking hour on his research. He was constantly on call with his Blackberry and put in many hours at the lab. His goal was an admirable one -- he intended to help those with genetic diseases -- but there was a large amount of sacrifice involved; not only by him but by his family.

I'm glad we have people like this in the world but I would not want to be one of them. I value my personal relationships too much to commit to my career to such a huge degree.

Right I definitely agree you find this dedication in all fields and that it creates great benefits for the rest of us - but often at a sacrifice the person is making. They are choosing to pour themselves into one specific area to the exclusion of others.

As a far lesser example, I am on BellaOnline 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I'm always working on code or handling email or doing other things. It's an obsession of mine On one hand I 'sacrifice' a lot of other things I could be doing (like riding my exercise bike) but on the other hand I *love* doing this. I wake up in the morning and come down to it, I pry myself away when I'm sleepy. So it's a labor of love to me. I can completely understand how a painter could be this way about painting, to be so happy doing it that they want to sleep nearby so they can get to it right away. I come right down in my PJs to get in front of my screen

Lisa: I'm glad you feel this way about BellaOnline since we all benefit from your devotion!

Very true, Diana. Lisa, we do benefit greatly from your dedication and love of your work.