BellaOnline Forums Beauty and Self Life Coaching Is history relevant?

Alexandra mentioned in one of her posts that past was no longer relevant. She was talking about her past.

What about history?
Is it relevant?

Only insofar as it should serve as a teacher. But it rarely does.
Even the Bible - an ancient mixture of scriptures if ever there was one - states that a fool returns to his folly, as a dog returns to his own vomit
.
A wise man will learn from his mistakes.
A Fool will repeat them.

I never asked if history is relevant to fools?

Anyone who has never learnt from a persistently made mistake, but has either gone on to repeat it, or just make more mistakes - is a fool.

Alexandra, you need to read the original post again.
you are unnecessarily going wayward.

I will rephrase it-
What about history?
Is it relevant?
Is it relevant to Intelligent people?

I don't think Alexandra's answers are irrelevant at all.

History is just used more in the "big picture" learning than in every day life (I believe). Groups and leaders tend to take away more from history - but since most of us tend to led st some point in life (even if as only parents), we still have much to gain from history.

History is learning from someone else's mistakes, and hopefully being able to avoid them oursleves, as opposed to learning friom our own mistakes and repeating them.

I believe history is relevant because it is helpful in understanding our past. We can see what happened to get us to where we are now, personally and as a society. It can help us see what we want to change in order to get a better outcome.

My high school history teacher had a quote up on the board (no author was given). It said: Those who fail to remember history are condemned to repeat it!

Having said that, I have to add this: I don't believe in letting history determine what my future will be. I only hang out in the past long enough to understand the cause and effect. I also don�t beat myself up over it. I choose to look backward through eyes of wisdom and not judgment or negativity towards myself or others.

For example, if I'm unhappy about something in my present, I look in my past to see when I first made an agreement or belief system about that specific thing. Then I break my old agreement and make a new agreement for my present and future. I don�t need to feel the pain all over again.

Here's a personal example: I've always loved to write, but somehow felt I wasn't fully able to express what was inside of me. No amount of "current thinking" helped me break through that barrier. The freedom came from remembering my past. Someone once broke my privacy and read through all my personal stuff (very revealing journals included). They even shared it with others. I was devastated and made a vow never to write anything down again that would leave me so vulnerable. I had forgotten all about it until I decided to ask why and remember my past.

I realized that historic vow in pain was what was holding me back in my present. I made a new vow to write from my heart, knowing I would be OK because I'm OK with me regardless of what anyone else thinks. The writer's block was completely removed!

Tell me, how would I have broken through that without remembering my past? It was a VOW I had made and I take my vows seriously.

My past is relevant, but it does not control my future. My past is not who I am today. However, if I completely ignore my past, I feel like I somehow lack understanding at times.

Still, I was at a women's retreat one time when the speaker asked, "How would you feel about your future today if you couldn't remember your past?" It felt pretty good to think that way and I thought "Wow" at first. Now I realize, I would lose the marker that shows me just how far I've come in my personal growth. Besides, we have brains that store this kind of information. I may as well use it to grow.

So yes, the past is relevant in learning, but it is not relevant in holding back our future unless we let it do so.

Have you experienced anything similar?

Hey, all of you.

I was talking about History in the broader sense.
Not personal history.

I thought I understood your original question, but are we not all parts that make up the whole?

Part of what I said also applies to society in a broad sense because if we do not look at worked and did not work before, we may make the same mistakes over again. I don't ever want to see another Hitler!

Do I feel like I need to know all the details of history and specific dates? Well, NO! I don't actually care for history. My husband is a Socials teacher and I quite frankly don't know how he can actually ENJOY the details!

What's YOUR opinion? You asked the question, but I'm also interested in your answer.

I think that history tells us about-
the psychology of the people.
Our desires.
The destruction we can do.
How we take decisions.
How something that was important yesterday is not so today. That adds to our perspective.
How the civilization grew
and so on.

I believe that to get a broader perspective of life, one must read history.

Hi Tami, you are out of this thread?

Tami, your longer post may not have answered cd's question, but i'm glad for the miscommunication, for i thought it was a very beautiful piece of writing, and i learned a lot by it. Thank you.

Welcome Holly.

Past is very relevant.

In what way do you find it relevant Manjari?

We learn from our past and the history. That tells us what to do and what to avoid. When I look back at my mistakes, I know what to do in future.

I think both personal and general history are relevant to each of us as individuals. There's the obvious thing of not wanting to repeat past mistakes, and there's the less-obvious way we can take a big-picture lesson and apply it to our own personal situations. For instance, in a work situation, you might notice someone with an "Alexander, The Great" attitude. If you are in a position not to promote that person, you may do others a favor! Another example came from a Bible study I attended. The teacher pointed out that the Wise Men avoided visiting Herod on their trip home--i.e. "They went home by another way." This just jumped out at me--sometimes it's okay to avoid evil. Sometimes, we're better off choosing to survive and deal with evil, perhaps more effectively, later on.

History is very important to us to find out where we came from, if nothing else. History tells us a lot about our past and how we came to be.

However, it is said that "History is written by the victors."

We read books and watch movies about the Old West, for instance and we hear about how the Native Americans were savage beasts and slaughtered whites and are vilified for it.

They fail to tell us that that we forcibly removed hem from their lands so we could expand westward to find gold and silver and build the railroad across the country. Buffalo Bill was hired by the railroad to hunt buffalo for food for the railroad crews and averaged over 4,000 pounds of buffalo meat a day and sold it to the railroad for 7 cents a pound.

They don't tell you about how we made treaties and then broke them. You hear about Custer being slaughtered with the 7th Cavalry at the Little Bighorn River but you don't hear about how he was brought back from an Army suspension by General Sheridan and General Sherman to hunt down Native Americans and kill them.

He found a village of Native Americans led by the Chief named Black Kettle and how his army surrounded the village and just started shooting at anything that moved and slaughtered everyone. They were finally chased off by Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians who came in and surrounded Custer and his men.

When Custer returned to the fort, he bragged about how he and his army killed 103 Native American Warriors when in fact, only 11 warriors were in the village. The rest were women, children and old men. Black Kettle was even killed by being shot in the back. You also didn't hear how Black Kettle had a white flag of truce on the outside of his lodge but when Custer arrived, it was too dark to see it.

You also dont hear about the slaughter of Native Americans at Wounded Knee either.

You can only take history at face value but the whole truth of history is very important but overlooked.

Do any of you ever decide you need to reinterpret past personal histories differently?

Yes> I have done that many times. But that confuses me more. This was a good question. Holly, can u given an example?

It's something that i have thought of trying to do more.

Let me give you an example of one time it occurred to me. A couple of years ago i was speaking to my brother on the phone. My brother is ten years older than me, and so in many ways, i'm like an only child. I was just a toddler when he was a teenager and i have almost no memory of living with him.

He has often claimed that he does not have even a single happy memory with our father. I know this is not true. He has said his childhood was a horror, and he knows mine must have been worse. Some circumstances had changed when i was born, so there is cause for this second statement... and yet i DO have some happy memories with my father, so i know he must have some too that he is denying.

In my conversation with my brother on the phone, he said again not one nice thing occurred with him and our father and i only ever hear him say how miserable his childhood was. He also said that he did not have a single happy day with his second wife. I also suspect strongly that this is rubbish. I told him i thought it was so, but he'd just argue and insist not one happy memory. He had to have reasons to marry her and stay married to her for ten years. He has created and insisted upon a negative myth.

I have at times tried to do something of the opposite. I have a memory of one Sunday morning waking to the smell of homemade bread and coming downstairs... i might have been 6 or 7 years old, being given freshly baked, still warm bread out of my mother's oven, and my going to eat it on the hearth by a roaring fire while it snowed outside. It is a lovely memory. And i rather expect i have expanded it. I have caught myself saying this happened on Sundays when i grew up. I desperately try to remember everything my mother baked or cooked. It may have happened only once that i woke to baked bread, i really don't know. I do know that part of the reality is, my mother was quite a severe alcoholic for over 20 years. That most people can't drink that hard without killing themselves from related complications in about 6 years... for her doctor said so. I'm sure she was drunk far more mornings than she baked bread and i remember her drinking to passing out many days. But in my mind the bread baking happened often, and in my life today, i make bread most Sundays, and on cold days i sometimes eat it by a fire in the fireplace... for the memory. It is pleasure and it is love.

So....

My brother expanded the negative memories and blotted out the good ones. I am trying to do somewhat the opposite... perhaps not to blot out the bad, but at least diminish their importance and extent. My brother has much resentment and many problems with anger and depression because of his memories, and he also would never have much to do with me because i remind him of his childhood, and probably he's also angry with me for being born, because that's when our mother began to drink and he lost her.

I would like to take my memories further, and sew together good memories like a quilt and reconstruct my past so that it is happier and keeps me warm. I have good memories of both my father and mother. I can think of many good qualities they have.

I haven't decided yet how far i can take it. There are some truly horrible events in my past that give me trouble today. They still have power over my behavior today. Sometimes i react today in a way i don't wish, because of a past memory. I've wondered if i play around with rewriting the memory and making a new legend, if it might help me be free of the reach the dark memories have on me.

What do you think? I would appreciate thoughts in detail.

A glass can be half empty or half full... it depends on how you look at it. I think we all have heard a "fish tale"... a story that gets retold and gets better and better with each retelling.
My brother and i have both done this... just in opposite directions. I feel i have fared better.

Holly, we were discussing about reinterpreting the past. What you are saying is different.

You are filtering all the bad and trying to remember only good while your brother is doing the reverse.

If we look at a particular incident, can we reinterpret it in light of new experiences?

Holly, your brother is playing the role of a victim. He will always complain.

I don't see how filtering and reinterpretting are different. Can you explain?

I feel what i am doing is more a matter of focus, but maybe this is just semantics and it's all the same.

I think my brother actually no longer remembers the good because he's pushed it so hard with his anger.

I can remember the bad. And it comes up sometimes when stimulated. Or i might bring it up when it can help someone else. I just try to keep the good closer to me.

Two people can experience the same event and have different memories of it because they focus on different aspects. But if they speak to each other and add to their knowlege, either one might reinterpret the experience.

I guess i have done this some. Things i learned about my father's grandfather allowed me to be more forgiving and compassionate towards my father.

I'm just thinking out loud here and sort of meandering... i don't know if i'm going anywhere in particular with my thoughts.

Two people can experience the same event and have different memories of it because they focus on different aspects. But if they speak to each other and add to their knowlege, either one might reinterpret the experience.

This is correct.

Holly,

You can look at any incident in your past and react differently. That is done by looking at facts differently and experiencing behavior differently.

Okay. Let's try it. Do you have a suggestion of a memory or reaction i might wish to change?

Holly,

Think of your mother. Because of her you suffered greatly and child should suffer like that. That was wrong.

Now look at her as an individual with all the pluses and minuses.
Why did she do all that? Try to think of the reasons and may be you will find a human being who was in no position to give but in need of things herself.

Sometimes we can look at the same situation in our life, over and over again, and depending on how we feel, we react differently each time. Just like you say, CDM, people have pluses and minuses, and situations always have good and bad. I have found that if I look at any situation in my life, I try to remember the good parts. Some people only see the negative side of things and feel bad, but we can just as easily look for the good and feel very happy. Certainly my life was not just good times, but my collective feelings and memories of my life are good, because I choose to ignore the bad or negative things. It may appear that I have "rose colored glasses on", but because I want to be happy, I have found that looking at the pluses, the positives or the good things make me much happier than looking at the negative stuff, the minuses or the bad things.

Trish

A good suggestion. I was actually able to do that much earlier than i was able to do it with my father. I feel at peace with both of them now, but i still hold resentment towards my brother. Perhaps i should try to do that with him.

I think all the best people do that, Trish. You remind me of my friends B and S, who have each had great trials in their lives but are also remarkably happy and loving people. They are my role models.

Holly, that is a great idea! I try to remember that with my brother, too. It is easier to accept the person he is now than to hold onto the resentments from childhood. Life is too short to let resentments control our feelings and our thoughts, right?

Trish

I don't know much of anything of my brother's childhood. He was ten when i was born, and as i became more aware (4 to 6 years old), he was a teenager and spent as little time at home and with the family as he could. I was 6 when he left for college at 17. Then i saw him for just a few days each year, and then less and less.

I know what he has told me and there are the larger family events i know. I'm sure he craved his father's attention and didn't get it. And he might have felt he lost his mother's attention, also, when i was born.