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#307767 04/18/07 08:46 AM
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Wolf
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Can liars be happy?

For example, if I had an affair and I hide it from my family.
I have run away from the affair, but the memory is alive.
Will I be ever happy?
Can I have very honest relationship with those I love if I lie and hide?

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Koala
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I can't claim to really understand why people will do stuff like that, but i have often been amazed at how people can "justify" their actions, and even not understand that they are being deceptive.

I think often it is our conscience that will make us unhappy if we do something wrong, but if our conscience is weak, we seem to only fear getting caught.

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The problem with telling a lie is you must remember the lie you told to keep up the facade. The more lies you tell the easier it is to be caught in your own web of deceit.

The truth is so much easier in life. It takes so much less energy to be honest with your self and those around you than to try and keep up a facade that does not exist.

So to answer your original question no I do not believe liars can be happy with themselves.

However, I do believe there are people who lie and it has become such a way of life for them that they no longer know what is reality and what is fantasy in their life. If you are to accuse them of lying they would be shocked and hurt and if given a lie detector test would probably pass because in their MIND they are telling the truth. Does that make sense?

Last edited by Erika_MissingChildren; 04/18/07 10:46 AM.

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Shark
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Originally Posted By: cdmohatta
Can liars be happy?

For example, if I had an affair and I hide it from my family.
I have run away from the affair, but the memory is alive.
Will I be ever happy?
Can I have very honest relationship with those I love if I lie and hide?


Only you can awnser that question for yourself.For some people lying is part of their nature and they dont seem to be affected by it while others are guilt ridden.

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Wolf
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Yes. So we have a character who is happy lying and has zero moral standards. And we have a character with high morality who wants to speak the truth.

I loved all the responses .Thanks.

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Wolf
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All wrong doing is done in the sincere belief that it is the best thing to do.

Arnold Bennett

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Koala
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I would agree with that quote. Though i had never heard it before, i have long felt that much of the greatest evil done in the world, was done in the mistaken belief that it was for the good. Hitler, for instance, believed he was a savior of his people, and that by annialating the jews, gypsies, mentally ill and others, that he was helping mankind shed "inferior stock." Of course he was crazy. But there were so many other dictators like that, who felt that violence and oppression was necessary. Or sometimes conquerors believed that one nation was the way to avoid war, never mind the fact they had to make war to try to get it. Often abusive parents also "explain" their cruelty... their child "needs a strong hand."

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Zebra
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No, in my way of thinking, Liars cannot be 'happy'. If a person tells a deliberate lie, it is to hide or construct a false peremise. Who would need to do this, if they were happy?
If a lie is told with good intention, then there is still damage. Wrong or deceitful speech is divisive and not constructive. Better to choose words with care and consideration, and to speak the Truth gently, than to embelish or seek to deceive.
Or perhaps it might be wisest to say nothing at all.

"All wrongdoing is done in the sincere belief that it is the best thing to do"? I disagree. some maybe, but surely, not all.....?

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/24/07 04:43 AM.
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Koala
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cd's question may be difficult to answer, unless we know what is meant by being happy. Are we talking COMPLETELY happy? And is anyone completely happy, 100%? Or do we mean sometimes happy... can a liar be happy for a few minutes before regret sets in? What about mostly happy or content with oneself and how would we measure that? I don't think i'd give the same answer to each of these recent versions.

And since happiness is an emotion, can anyone ever say definitively if another person is happy or not? If a liar tells us they are happy, and even happy with lying, could we refute it? I mean, how would we prove that they weren't really happy? I've seen people claim to be happy in situations that i can't imagine anyone being happy with!!! "Surrre.. stay with your alcoholic husband who only beats you on rare occassion, because you say you're happy." I mean, what do you do when someone is in a terrible situation, and they claim they are happy???!!! I have heard someone say they were happy to have alcohol kill them, because they have to die some way, and as he put it, "what a beautiful way to die."

Determining lies gets tricky, when a person is lying to themselves. And i'm not sure there isn't a little bit of that going on too every time a person lies to someone else. One of the most common lies is lying to try to keep someone else from hurting, if the other person heard the truth. Of course it never works, but there are many people out there who will tell you what you want to hear... sometimes they don't care about you, but sometimes they are people who love you, who just get twisted around thinking they can keep you happy by lying.

What do you guys think?

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Well, just to drop my two cents into this interesting discussion, I know a couple of expert liars, and their version of happiness is getting what they want, no matter what. They really don't regard their "manipulations" or "faking it" behaviors as lying--they believe they are just doing what they need to do to survive and get what they want. They have no qualms about constructing whatever it takes in the form of convincing behaviors and words to accomplish that goal, and they have no guilt whatsoever about hurting or deceiving anyone. In fact, they don't understand what's wrong with anyone who doesn't buy into their fabrications, and they will condemn and reject such a person as "noncooperative" or worse.

How do you even begin to penetrate such a mindset? Sure, we can stay away from these people, but there are occasions when I must interact with them. At those times, I stick to business. But I see the impact on their children (and am seeing the same behaviors now in some of those children, too). And I'm wondering if there isn't more we can do.

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