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Joined: Mar 2006
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Zebra
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It seems a weird thing to say, but....Try not to fight it..... I apologise if you have mentioned your circumstances elsewhere, but I do not know if you have a job during the day, or children to look after.....
We as mammals are the only ones who have a such rigid structure to our lives - sleep only when it's dark, eat three times a day, brush your teeth after every meal, walk/don't walk, form an ordely queue, respect your elders.... why do we impose such restrictive straitjackets upon ourselves?! I would suggest you eat when you want, sleep when you want, and enjoy the in-between times...!

But I know what you mean about the dark hours being the longest. it would be a dishonest person who says that such unrest has never hit them.... I know all the quotable sayings...
"Even the darkest hour has only sixty minutes", "There is always light at the end of the tunnel"....
A good friend of mine explained it thus, but he was swift to add that it's just a theory...

If we have a bad cold, it's always worse early in the morning, or at night.
This is because the night time is the time our body - regulated by the rhythms of the hours of the day - chooses to 'shut down' the primary functions of the body, and works to heal what ails us...by not eating, or using our muscles for excess movement, energy (from digestion and locomotion) is directed elsewhere, to try to establish an equillibrium in the body's health and energy. Hence the sinuses, lungs and general immune system start working overtime to try to suppress the harmful viruses/bacteria produced by the viral/bacterial infections...
Of course, this makes us feel like [censored]. And as body affects mind, affects body, feeling like [censored] makes us think [censored] too....
Coupled with this, is the silent isolation...the feeling that we are the only person awake in our universe....we, as a usually gregarious animal, feel so alone.....there is nobody to talk to, no-one to turn to, nobody to listen to our woes or lamentations.....
And as you rightly say, some will find infinite calm and joy in such a situation, others will find despair and loneliness....it's all to do with their current mindset, with their personal perception.

Do you know the story of the Horse-breeder? (I'll pretend you're saying: "No, do tell, I'm all ears....!")

An elderly horse-breeder, no more than a peasant, really....deep in the heart of the China countryside, woke one day, to find his favourite stallion had broken out of his stall and bolted.
His neighbours deeply lamented his loss: He had lost his one means of increasing a herd strongly and prolifically.... the poor old man! But he merely replied;
"Who knows what is bad? Who knows what is good?"

His young and strapping son prepared a good mare, and set off to try to find the stallion, and a week later, returned - not only with his fine horse, but with several, young brood mares following!
The neighbours rejoiced, and congratulated the old man on his good fortune. But he merely replied;
"Who knows what is bad? Who knows what is good?"

Several weeks later, the young man was thrown by one of these mares, as he was trying to break her in. His leg was shattered in three places, and inspite of quick and good medical attention, it was clear the leg would never mend perfectly. The neighbours felt so sad for the old man. His son and heir might never be able to run the farm as well as he might have done, and felt sad for the old man. But he merely replied;
"Who knows what is bad? Who knows what is good?"

Weeks passed. The Emperor sent out his soldiers to enlist and conscript all the young men of the country, to swell the ranks of his army for times of conflict. They completely deprived the country of the future farmers and craftsmen so vital to the continuation of the artisan traditions.... But of course, the young man was spared, through his deformity and handicap. The neightbours pointed this out to the old man, But he merely replied;
"Who knows what is bad? Who knows what is good?"

Much of what I have practised and learnt, much of it in anecdotal terms such as the story above, has guided and helped me to evaluate and determine my outlook on things.
Please don't think I have cracked the code. Heck, I doubt, if I were able to see things as a concrete image, that I have even scratched the surface.... But when I look back at how far I have progressed along my own personal 'Path', I would have to tell you that me today, is unrecognisable as the me of yesteryear.
I can give you no answers to satisfy what you might be asking. All I'm doing is telling you about the signposts I have followed.

I hope you gain the sleep and rest you need and deserve.
With heartfelt Metta to you,

Alexandra



Why

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/23/07 01:51 PM.
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"If we have a bad cold, it's always worse early in the morning, or at night.
This is because the night time is the time our body - regulated by the rhythms of the hours of the day - chooses to 'shut down' the primary functions of the body, and works to heal what ails us...by not eating, or using our muscles for excess movement, energy (from digestion and locomotion) is directed elsewhere, to try to establish an equillibrium in the body's health and energy."

We also cough more in the morning because while sleeping we've been mostly still and horizontal and fluid has collected because we haven't been expelling it so we can sleep. It finally reaches a point where our body signals us to wake up and cough so we won't ...well, sort of drown. Then we sit up and everything shifts, causing more coughing. At night, some of the extra coughing is caused by dewpoint. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, and in the evening the air can cool beyond its ability to hold all the moisture. At such times we may start seeing dew... but the cooling of air in the evening can also cause extra moisture to irritate our sinuses and lungs, which are already strained.

I agree our body has some different functions at night. One of the notable ones is the production of T-cells, which if i understand correctly, only happens while we sleep. This is why extra sleep is so important when you are sick. They also find that chronic sleep shortage increases a person's risk of heart disease and cancer. The reason we often ache when we have a cold or flu, is actually not the illness itself, but the extra activity of our immune system.

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I have heard this story, told slightly differently. But i understood it to be a native american story... i think Lakota or Cherokee. I'm trying to find a link, but as it is a folk tale, it doesn't really have a name, so it's hard to find. It is actually possible that it is both Chinese and native american.

In the version i heard, the man in the story is continually told by his neighbors either how lucky or how unlucky he is (it alternates with each event in the story), and his response is always the same, "we will see," and of course in the next event, the luck shifts again, or at least the interpretation of the event as to whether it was lucky or not. In the version i heard, the "moral" is subtly told, that good fortune is often hidden in a bad event (such as the son breaking his leg), and disadvantage may lurk in fortune (such as the son stealing the beautiful horse and breaking his leg). The story encourages a person to have an even character, like the father in the story.

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Zebra
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Thanks for those comments Holly, that adds to my store of knowledge, and I am grateful! Wonderful how tales to illustate certain qualities do the rounds, and the origin is lost...It little matters, I guess, just where the story was first told. The comforting and wondrous thing is that two such diverse cultures, separated by geographical miles, should hold the same wisdom!
Thank you also for the info on night-time drowning! next time I have a hacking cough in the middle of the night, I shall think of you and your wise words. I'm going to sleep with armbands.... do you think that would help - ?! laugh

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Waterwings? hahhaha

I can't say for sure that the version i heard was Lakota... i only have my memory of it at the moment, because i did not find a reference. But i'll keep my eye out for it, and let me know, too, if you come across another version of the story.

Getting back to your earlier advice about "trying not to fight it," ...that's probably about the one thing i don't try, and i think your suggestion has merit. I think sometimes i have difficulty just accepting myself as i am and letting that be good enough. I don't usually go for the "nurture your inner child" new-agey stuff, but maybe we all need to learn how to treat ourselves in better ways that perhaps we didn't get as children.

I think what it comes down to, is i just don't like having a hard night filled with insecurities or to have any of the frustrating little behaviors (fears mostly) that i've picked up not by choice, but by reaction to events that are past. And my instinct is to fight it... i don't like it, it seems alien sometimes, so i fight it. But it isn't alien. For better or worse, its how i am right now. You reminded me of a quote i wrote down in my little book (when i hear quotes i like, i keep them in a very tiny ring bound book, so i can look at them later)...

When I accept myself as i am, I change, and when I accept others as they are, they change. ---Carl Rogers

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Originally Posted By: cdmohatta
Are you enjoying our conversation?


I was, i hope you will be back soon.

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Zebra
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Originally Posted By: hollyelise
i just don't like having a hard night filled with insecurities or to have any of the frustrating little behaviors (fears mostly) that i've picked up not by choice, but by reaction to events that are past. And my instinct is to fight it... i don't like it, it seems alien sometimes, so i fight it.


At the risk of sounding self-righteous and sanctimonious, which i assure you is not my intention, have a look (bold text above) at what you have written. The "Frustrating little behaviors", that you have picked up....If not by choice, then who or what actually compelled you to pick them up?
Our reactions to anything, past or present, are always, always through our own choice. How we accept things, diget them, evaluate them and then leave them aside or continue to carry them, is always a self-inflicted decision. Nobody has forced you to keep churning this stuff over and over.... If you picked it up once, you can drop it too. Honestly you can, I promise.

OK - Another Story you might have already heard in one form or another....:

Two monks, one quite senior, the other more a recent novice and new to the order, are walking on a long trip back to their monastery. They come to a river they must ford, and the water is quite swift. they see a woman, in difficulties, so the older monk, without hesitation, pcks up the woman in piggy-back, and carries her over. All three continue on their journey.
After a couple of hours, the young monk, who can contain himself no longer, explodes in anger and frustration:
"What on earth were you thinking back there - ?!? What possessed you to touch that woman?? you know we are forbidden to touch members of the opposite sex - why on earth would you do something like that??!
The older monk listens passively to this tirade, then replies gently...
"I put her down two hours ago. Why are you still carrying her?"

The young monk is shocked bu this apparent indifference to the transgression, and vows to speak to the Lama/abbot about it as soon as possible.
Once back at the monastery, he requests to see the head honcho. he sits in his room, and pours out his frustration and indignation for the Abbot/lama.
After a second, when he has exhausted his anger, the head of the monastery replies,
"Boy, she must be getting really heavy by now....."

Quote:
When I accept myself as i am, I change, and when I accept others as they are, they change. ---Carl Rogers


I love that. I have added it to my little book too, because, like you, i love things like this.....

I hope I have not added negatively to your thoughts.
I'd like to see CDM back in here too.....

With metta,
Alexandra

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hahaha... yes i do know that story. It's a good one. smile

You said, "At the risk of sounding self-righteous and sanctimonious, which i assure you is not my intention, have a look (bold text above) at what you have written. The "Frustrating little behaviors", that you have picked up....If not by choice, then who or what actually compelled you to pick them up?"

I've thought about this very thing more often than you can imagine, and i unfortunately, don't have an answer. In theory... i believe just as you said, "If you picked it up once, you can drop it too. Honestly you can, I promise." ...and yet, i am completely frustrated!!!! Belief that it is possible is why i continue to fight it so hard, and you'd think that a tenth of the effort i have spent on it would have worked, but it hasn't, and i don't know why. I'm completely stymied.

All i can think... is where fear is concerned and i think many of these are fear related even if i'm not experiencing it as an emotion... that it is like getting burned. You touch a hot stove, you get burned. You touch a hot stove, you get burned. You touch a hot stove again, and get burned again. And THEN, someone tells you the stove is off and it's cold, and you go to touch it, you want to touch it,... but you can't quite bring yourself to do it. You try again, and each time your hand jerks back without really thinking about it. And i think, i'm not sure, but i think, that may be the situation i'm in... which... who was it, Rogers? described as basic conditioning response... after enough repetition all you had to do was ring the bell, and the dogs salivated.

Now conditioning CAN be reversed. In theory, anyway. But how on earth do i do that in an uncontrolled environment, on myself no less, when i'm often not even conscious of what's going on until after the fact? How do i do it when a lot of it is interpersonal?

Some of the behaviors start long before i'm aware that they are happening... it's clearly reactionary and automatic. That isn't to say there isn't a way around that, but it requires recognizing it earlier and interrupting the pattern... and i don't know how i could do that on my own. Therapy wouldn't work, because they'd have to actually BE there to interrupt the patterns. I've thought of trying hypnosis, but it's more expensive than i can afford.

Any suggestions?

Should i describe one of the behaviors, would that help?

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Zebra
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Hollyelise, if you could see me now.... My eyes are streaming with tears, I feel for you so much.....
let me cut to the quick. You don't need hypnosis, and trust me, conditioning IS reversible. But you're right, tackling this one on your own is a bummer.

I will say immediately, I am not about to provide you with anything that I have not already learnt myself, and found to be solid and reliable. But as they say,
"Tis part of the cure to wish to be cured" and as you have pointed out, something has conditioned you to dig your heels in and resist the release....

And it's not going to happen overnight, either, though I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

If you'd prefer, I would be happy to continue this as a private correspondence. There might be things you'd consider sensitive, and I would never betray your trust or expose such discussion on public forum, unwittingly or otherwise.....

let me know, Holly.....

With more hugs, love and metta wrapped around you than you'd ever know....
Alexandra

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Thank you, that is very kind!

I'm on my way out to work right now but i will think on this today and probably respond later tonight.

Have a great day!

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