I wrestle with the question of whether or not there is a God. It seems like I can prove it both ways and disprove it both ways. Does the universe need a creator to exist? Or is this just an idea inside man-made theology? Man yearns for the eternal. He wants to live forever and be strong forever. He is the only animal as far as we know which builds churches and contemplates the infinite. This in itself may be an indication that immortality resides in a soul of some kind. If there is truth in religion, I accept the premises of the New Testament.

Jim Colyer
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Humans are the crown of creation.

They are a manifestation of nature becoming self aware.

Love is the evidence of the spiritual realm. You cannot weigh or measure it but it is real. So is God. Love is good evidence for His existence.

There is a God.

Hey Jim
Nice sentences
God existence is beyond my mind.


I think need not


Personally I fear to see no existence after die.

Just because God is beyond our ability to fully grasp does not mean we should not try to grasp Him. On the contrary, He is a great motivator for wisdom.

I think you are right lovelove, we should try to ponder who or what is God. When we accept our unknown then could try to think about it. I guess knowledge and science is walking in this way but don't consider religion as same.

That is correct, Babak, religion is not the same. Good point.

I think the reason so many of us seek after a relatonship with God, pondering HIs existance, measuring His Word etc, is because deep down inside of all of us there is a need to reconnect with our creator. I for one, don't think I resemble a primate much at all. So, for me, the idea of evolution just doesn't measure up. So my choice is easy. i was created in the image of the True God. I was made exactly the way I am because God loves me; good, bad and the bad hair days....lol.This works for me because I am content with myself knowing that the creator of the universe and all the contemplated mysteries within it finds me acceptable. There's no competition, no jockeying for position, i am loved for myself and this motivates me to love myself and overflow with love for others. This contributes to peace within myself which hopefully will spill out in peace for all the world.

Well said.

I think a Spiritual path is a human's way of seeking something better within themselves, whether there is a God involved or not. Whether one is seeking "inwardly" as in Buddhism, or "outwardly" towards a Divinity for Guidance, as in a Theistic Religion, we're after the same thing. A way of bettering ourselves, and by connection, the world we live in.

It's not a question of resemblance, although there is much to illustrate that primates, particularly those in captivity and influenced by Human company, do show some extraordinarily and uncannily 'human' tendencies.
Some have even been successfully taught to communicate effectively via sign language.
It's also worth bearing in mind that Biologically speaking, we share 97% of a chimp's genetic structure.
Evolution does not imply that you should therefore reject God or disprove his existence through it.
Evolution may be a scientific expalnation of Earth's progress, but it doesn't eliminate God from the equasion, neither does it seek to. If there is God's hand in Evolution, it makes the whole thing no less remarkable and spectacular. In fact, looking at some of the extraordinary marine creatures discovered, by our ability to probe deeper than ever toward the ocean floor, I personally am amazed by their appearance and behaviour....it's nothing short of miraculous....!



If I might be so bold, this is very much what Buddhism teaches us to strive for.
To be loved and accepted for ourselves, in our own eyes, which in turn, we are encouraged to reflect back at those around us, in the hope of eliminating suffering and striving for a world filled with Love.

let's drink to that....
Mine's a lemon soda.....!

God loves us as we are but to have eternal life with Him we must be reconciled by Christ.

But if God loves us as we are, then surely he can take and accept us as we are, warts and all?
If he knows that we are blessed with a loving and giving nature, why would he then cast us into the bowels of hell?

isn't that a bit cruel?

because you see, if he's going to be like that - a conditional, domineering and judgemental God, then I have (as he gave me) the right to choose. And I choose to decline his invitation, and take my chances with The Dalai Lama and Gandhi, Thich Naht Hanh and others of that ilk, whom I cannot believe are hell-bound.

Incidentally, there are those in Devout Religious circles who have counted the above as close personal friends, and who believe that there's room for everyone regardless.... The Dalai Lama regularly converses with Religuious Church leaders, and teaches and runs seminars Buddhist philosophy in Monasteries and Religous Denominational schools as does Thich Naht Hanh...mediation is practised by all sides, together....They collude, cooperate and discuss all aspects of religion quite harmoniously, with no attempt of conversion, as none is seen to be needed.

I think it's easy to become a little too insular and perhaps a little blinkered...
If Church leaders can exist in such a way, what is to stop us reaching the same accord?

Alexandra,
If you had children and there was a pedophile living down the street from you whom you KNEW for a fact would try to molest your children if given half a chance, would you let that person live in your house? Of course not. Neither will God. He will not allow those who refuse to follow His laws to live with His precious children in heaven. He loves them all but He gives us each free will to choose God's way or our own way. Since God is perfect and knows the fruition of all choices, He knows which children would corrupt His perfect home in heaven.

Excuse me, but I hardly think comparing these wise and spiritual leaders to a paedophile is a fair comparison. In fact, I think it's quite an insult, and unkind of you to draw that comparison.
Are you saying that men of Christ on earth are more tolerant and forgiving than God?
For that is not their view, even if you believe it is God's....

I was speaking of people in general. God puts people in hell to keep their evil influences from those in heaven who have chosen to accept eternal life under God's terms.

I thank you for your retraction. I take it that is what it was....

In that case, answer my question, then, please....

God has given us this life as a foretaste of life eternal. With the contrasted differences of life and death, good and evil, truth and lies so that we can make an informed choice. That is really the only reason we are here. To choose. To either choose God and eternal life or choose our own way and then get hell as the wages ( read that;earned) of our rejection of God. You may regard that as cruel because you regard your life as your own. In fact, God owns you because He created you. If you regard your life from the perspective of stewardship rather than ownership then you start to understand.

No....
My question was the following....

God does love us as we are but we are corrupted by sin. That sin must be dealt with. Jesus did that. The question is not whether God loves us as we are but do you love God as He is? It is not about God accepting us, it is about us accepting God. It is not about God rejecting us, it is about us rejecting God. If you do not choose Him then you have rejected Him by whatever other choice you have made. The natural consequence of rejecting Him is to be without Him. You do not go to heaven because you do not choose it. To go to heaven is to be with God. To reject God is to reject heaven. So, in essence, you choose hell yourself.

Ah.

But first you must accept God, Heaven, Satan and Hell.

Which personally, I don't because I believe them to be mechanisms engineered by those in authority to control the masses (pardon the pun).
The Pope has recently moved the Goalposts on an outdated and discarded view of purgatory and indulgences...He is in essence, seeking to revive something declared outdated and redundant, and no longer accepted or practised...

If that's not massaging the message, to suit the time, I don;'t know what is.
Similarly, I think this Hell, Fire and brimstone for unbelievers is a device founded on, and fuelled by Fear.
And personally, I find that a despicable move.

When you drive are you fearful? no. You are not terrified by every car that comes along but you drive in your own lane, don't blow through traffic lights, etc. because you fear a crash with another vehicle. Your fear of collision is one that guides rather than engulfs. That is how it is supposed to be with God. It is a respectful fear not being terrified. We avoid sin and rebellion to avoid a spiritual car crash.

I saw some poems from Khayam, I like them, hope you enjoy

Before time takes you by surprise
Ask for good red wine and get wise
You are not of gold, don�t believe the lies
You are put to dust, once again you�ll rise.

In life devote yourself to joy and love
Behold the beauty of the peaceful dove
Those who live, in the end must all perish
Live as if you are already in heavens above.

A future fantasy is no more than vain hope
With wishful minds for which we grope
I�d rather improve my current scope
To an upward trend from a downward slope

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

I like that Babak. Nice.

Beautiful....
The last line of the second verse reminds me of a saying I have held dear...

"It little matters whether Heaven - as a place - actually exists. the important thing, is to live life with others, as if it did."

I understand and accept that Dave, and other Godly and devout Christians can see no salvation for those who do not accept God or Christ in their hearts. I am, to some extent, also touched by their concern. Some Christians are exceptionally offensive in their message, and may use a tone which might be interpreted as condemnatory or judgemental, which many may find off-putting.
Dave and I have had some extremely constructive discussions on this matter, and we are both fully aware of each others' opinion. It warms my heart to know that, even though our discussions have held challenge, disput and argument, we have a healthy and profound respect for one another, and have never found ourselves resorting to insult, sarcasm, unkindness or rudeness.
He believes in God, and an afterlife, I do not;
he believes in satan, and his personal hell-realm, I do not;
he believes Christ is saviour, I do not. Although I have no doubt as to his existence and holiness... His wisdom and kindness are a shining example to everyone, even so long after his demise.... For his words, deeds and reputation to be so celebrated after all this time is a singularly extraordianry phenomenon.

The above quotation was uttered by a Buddhist Tibetan Rinpoche, and is quoted in a remarkable book called 'The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying'.
It deals with the Western fearful attitude to Death, and quotes from every possible creed and religion, holding them all in high reverence and respect. There is no attempt to discredit or dispute, but it seeks to unify the central core message of all religions, doctrines and creeds, that in order to attain a satisfying Life, and to spend one's days in fruitful serenity, the constant practise we should all strive to embody, is one of Universal Love, Compassion and 'kindredship'.

If such a word exists.

Which i think it should.

Alexandra,
Have you ever heard of the symbolism of the cross in the OLD Testament? I know you are not a believer but I thought you'd find this interesting. I will do this as a list derived from a premise.
The premise; The CROSS is a symbol ( by its shape) of both a vertical and horizontal covenant. The vertical being between God and mankind and the horizontal between man and man. When asked what was the greatest commandment Jesus responded to love the Lord your God with all your heart, etc. ( vertical covenant) He said the second was like unto it. To love you neighbor as you love yourself ( horizontal covenant). This is also reflected in the first four of the ten commandments about God ( vertical) and the last six about man ( horizontal).
Here are the examples:
1. When God made a covenant with Abraham. Abraham cut an animal in two and split the pieces with a trail of blood in between ( horizontal) and God passed a smokepot and torch between the two ( vertical) thus making the symbol of a CROSS.
2. During Israel's captivity in Egypt when the Angel of death was passing over the Hebrews put lamb's blood from one doorpost to another ( horizontal) and then from the door's lintle downward ( vertical) thus making the symbol of the CROSS.
3. When David killed Goliath, Saul's son Johnathan cut a blood covenant with David. They split a lamb in two and strung blood between the two pieces ( horizontal) and then they walked between the pieces ( vertical) thus making the symbol of the CROSS. Interesting, huh?

Hi Dave
Oh nice statment about Cross I think but for me not acceptable cause know for what reason Romans made it. Any way I think human has this ability to make legend with any kind of shape.



Hi Alexandra
Sounds great, It's so nice when people can like and hear each other with different opinion. Humans are members of one community. Not so important we reach to an exact point I think.

Everything that Dave has said is true. God gave us the choice of freewill and if we use that to choose not to believe in Him, then we will be cast into the "lake of fire that God created for the devil and his angels".

I choose to believe in God and I choose to believe in the fact that Christ died for our sins so we wouldn't have to.

As far as evolution goes, that is all hogwash. if we evolved from apes then why are there still apes and why aren't they giving birth to humans?

Why is there a missing link in the evolution chain?

Why did Darwin discount his own theories of evolution in later life?

None of the sciences can prove the theory of evolution. Not Biology, not mathematics, not embryology, not paleontology, not thermodynamics, or Anthropology. None of these sciences can prove evolution.

All life will produce like life. Not one case of spontaneous or accidental generation has been observed.

A noted Anthropologist said, "Missing links are misrepresentations."

Nebraska Man: A tooth used to reconstruct him was found to belong to an extinct pig.

Java Ape Man: Bones used to reconstruct him were found to belong to an elephant

Piltdown Man: Bones used to reconstruct him were found to be the bones of an ape.

Evolutionists say that the species have evolved over a period of 60,000,000 years. In spite of war, famine and plagues, it is estimated the world population has doubled every 168 years. If this is so, and the human race is say, 100,000 years old, then there would be 4,500,000,000,000,000,000 persons in the world today.

Whereas based on today's population and using the 168 year doubling system, we find that 4,500 years ago there would only be a handful of people in the world. Hmmm...the flood occured about 4,500 years ago.

Well, I've rambled enough for now.

Later I will explain how the Chinese written language is another proof of the authenticity of the Bible.

The Chinese language? Wow! Post that quick. I'd love to learn about that! Blessings.

Okay, I will give a couple of quick examples and will elaborate more later on.

The Chinese written language is a system of word pictures that originated 4,500 years ago just after the Great Flood and at the time of the building of the Tower of Babel when God dispersed the people throughout the earth by confusing their language.

This group of Noah's descendants moved Eastward and for the next 2,000 years developed a remarkable culture. Their word pictures had to depict what would be common knowledge so it could be understood by all.

For example:

The character for CREATE is a combination of a figure for "dust or mud", "a mouth"", movement or life" and "walking".

This is exactly what Genesis 2:7 states: God formed (created) man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils (mouth)the breath of live and man became a living (walking) soul.

Another one is the character for BOAT. It clearly shows that the originator of the Chinese language was familiar with Noah's Ark as being the first big boat.

It is a combination of the figure for "vessel" plus "eight" plus person. thusly, the eight members of Noah's family were saved in a vessel - the Ark - (boat)


These are just a couple of examples and will give more later if needed. Their picture words told of creation, the fall of Adam, the great flood, etc... 1,000 years BEFORE Moses wrote the FIRST WORD of Genesis - the first book of the Bible.

You can read more about this as well if you can find the book called "The Discovery of Genesis" by C.H. Kang and Ethel R. Nelson. Concordia Publishing House, 3558 S. Jefferson St. St. Louis, MO. 63118 U.S.A.

hi Amadeus


I read in history that my country had 100 million population 2000 years ago whereas now our population is 70 million and 30 years ago it was 37 million. Population growing is depend on many things I guess.



I know that civilization in Middle East and Egypt have history more than 5000 years ago. And there were a huge population existed.
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Hi Babak,

Did I note a bit of sarcasm in your last sentence? It's okay if it was because I know where my soul is going and I am just trying to help other people get there as well.

Sure, I can tell you why Christ died for our sins. He died for our sins because God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16

As soon as you accept the Lord into your heart and ask for forgiveness for your past sins, then they "become as white as snow". Now, Christians aren't perfect and we make mistakes and as soon as you realize that you have committed a sin then we are to rebuke it right away, ask Jesus for forgiveness and then walk it out. You have to command Satan out of your mind by the name of Jesus Christ. You have to rebuke all of his works and not let him tempt you. Satan is the great Tempter and he will make your life miserable if you allow him to.

He will tell you that it is all right to become a Buddhist or a Muslim but God has commanded that no one will put any other God before Him.

My statements in my previous post are not fact or true because I want them to be, they are fact and are true because God says they are. Read the Bible, all of your questions will be answered.

Read the book "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Weise

And you have cited Wikipedia as your sources. You do realize that Wikipedia is not accurate and is not written by any scholars, right? You know Wikipedia is written by people like you and me, right? Please tell me you are not using Wikipedia as any sort of gospel truth.

Plus you didn't mention anything about my writing of the Chinese language as proof of God's existence. That should be easy enough to check on.

So riddle me this, Batman. If there is a such thing as evolution then why is there a missing link to it all?

I gave you examples of noted neandrathals that were proven false and it wasn't me who did it. It was archaeologists who did it.

I will pray for you, My Friend that you too may become saved before it is too late as well.

Actually, you and I both know that Jesus was none to happy about this.... First of all, in the garden of Gethsemane, he did ask that if at all possible this cup should not be passed to him.... and even on the cross, he asked God why he had forsaken him....
What loving decent father would send his own son to die for others? What a cruel vindictive and nasty thing to do.... And God so loved the world thast he sent his only son..... oh, really, that's very big of him....



Oh well, I'm ok then. I don't put any God before him, because Buddhists don't worship any God at all....



Even the greatest theologians alive today are aware that the Bible cannot be taken as a true, historical verifiable or provable account. It is after all, a book of Faith. To have faith means to 'believe', but not necessarily to 'know'. And faith is just another word for 'Hope'. They're niot 'True because God says so'.... I'm afraid they're only true because you happen to believe them. But that's not 'proof'...that's your opinion. The burden of proof rests on you, if you wish to prove it. we don't need to disprove it, because we don't believe it.





people like you and me...Right?
Just like the Bible is written by people like you and me....right? Where's the difference?


For the same reason that biblical accounts of certain events are actually provably innaccurate, and did not occur at the time scribed in the Good Book...There are some details of accounts which have now been discovered to be grossly innaccurate. So nothing's infallible...

" Since Jesus is frequently referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth," it is interesting to learn that the town now called Nazareth did not exist in the first centuries BCE and CE."

(from here )



ditto with the research from the above link. They can't all be lying or mistaken.....

the thing I find amazing about some Christians, is that they are prepared to completely disregard other creeds and belief systems as false and un-Godly, but when scientific proof is put forward that might bring into question their own set of values, there is much disdain and argument - using the very book brought into question - to pooh-pooh any narrative, or pour scorn on logical counter-discussion.
I trust that won't happen here.
not without proof, anyway....

Alexandra,
The Bible is a book of truth. It is GOD'S Word. God never lies. If it is written as a literal, historical account then it is so. No matter what some theologian says.

That's your opinion Dave, and we've been over this before...Even if God existed, and I believed in Him, I would not call him a Liar.
To Lie is a human trait, and The Book was written by Humans. Even if they never intentionally set out to deceive, I cannot personally accept this Book as the universal indisputable irrefutable Truth that you do. Period.

You see it as THE truth, I see it as A truth, but not necessarily MY truth. So we really just must agree to differ on this.

Yes, the people who wrote the Bible were people like you and I. They were teachers, shepherds, prophets and fishermen. However, the difference is that they were ordained by God to write the Bible.

Each book of the Bible were written at different times and not one knew that their documentations were going to be put together to form the Bible.

As far as Christians not believing in other creeds and false religions, we believe that other people believe in them and that is unfortunate.

There is no scientific proof to disprove the Bible and we as Christians do not look for arguments with scorn and disdain for those who say that there is, we, as Christians try to set the record straight for those misguided people.

We as Christians are called by God to minister His Word and the Good News about Jesus. That is what you mistake for criticism and disdain against people who try to discount the Bible as just a fairy tale.

People say there are innaccuracies in the Bible but they fail to say what they are.

You said something about not pooh-poohing any narrative or discourse without proof. There are 66 books of proof wrapped up in one. You just refuse to believe that proof is all.

You mean, of course "like you and ME". God didn't ordain anyone. They ordained themselves. They took it upon themselves to promulgate ancient mythology and turn it into a dictatorial creed designed to instil fear and to control. That is the fundamental basic tenet of any "Manhandled" Doctrine....



so how do we know for sure - FOR SURE, MIND - that any one section is any more or less reliable than the others?


I didn't suggest you should dilute your beliefs. I'm merely suggesting you study them all to understand more fully what they all are, and why they have such a following.



I'm afraid there is much scientific proof to dispute historical accounts given in the Bible as fact...such as the massacre of the innocents, Christ's place of living, and the meanderings and wanderings said to have taken place... read the above link again, and try this one too... this link



Not so. The criticism and disdain I have received is from those refusing to study the Religion I follow; why this should be so, I do not know. It's not catching or disease-ridden...unless they are manifesting an unspoken fear of perhaps learning something new and to their advantage....


see the two links above, That should keep you busy for a while....



But it's not proof. It's belief or faith, but that's not the same as proof. It's something you believe in, but by very virtue of the fact that others fail to see your point of view as you do, it's testimony to the fact that, Truth it may be, but it's flawed, because it's A Truth - not THE truth.....
If it were completely infallible and indisputable, then everyone would be an adherent. But it's not. hence those who do not follow the way you would lead....

Alexandra,
We do not regard it as truth because we believe, we believe because it is truth.

Hang on....

I have just realised where I am.
I made a promise some time ago to the Bible Basics Moderator that I would treat her forum with respect. She requested (even in her forum rules) that she did not wish to see arguments or contradictions to the bible arising here, and requested that the book not be challenged or disputed. All well and good....

I promised her I would evaluate my words and discussions accordingly.

What I am about to say is purely as a comment, it's not intended to be defamatory or argumentative.

A great many threads in the Christianity and Bible Basics forum are either started by, or greatly contributed to, by Non-Christians (be they atheist, agnostic or of another following) and this is how discussion is generated. That's essentially what a forum is for. Discussion, verbal engagement and debate. Without these kinds of exchanges, discussion and debate on a forum whittles away to nothing. if everyone on a forum is of a like mind, then the conversation very quickly degenerates and dwindles away to nothing....

I would be very happy to transfer this discussion to the Buddhist forum, but there's a catch: Those wishing to continue this discussion would have to be as informed and cognisant of Buddhist doctrine as I am of the Christian Bible.

And that's where the problem arises.

The Buddhist forum is not much frequented by such discussions, because it seems to me (and this is only my perception - inform me if you think I am mistaken) many Christians either shy away from learning more about Buddhism, or prefer not to, intent instead, on just receiving all of their religious and sopiritual knowledge and instruction, from one source.

But the Buddhist doctrine thrives on discussion and debate. Buddhism refuses to rely on faith or belief, prefering instead to recommend that all teachings - notwithstanding their origin or provenance - be subjected to the highest and most detailed scrutiny possible. so in Buddhism, it's not a case of have faith - it's a question of find indisputable proof and enhance your knowledge....

I would be pleased to open up a new thread in Buddhism to continue the above discussion, but only as long as those engaging in this discussion would be able to appraise the discussion as much from a Buddhist perspective as from a Christian one.

The same rules of respect, rudeness, courtesy, insults, poor language, politeness, etc..apply on the Buddhist forum, as much as they do on any other forum. It's a question of acceptable constructive and positive social interaction - it has nothing to do with a person's belief or faith, religion or dogma.....

But I will create a 'transfer' thread to the |Buddhist forum now, and hopefully continue this discussion there.

I am also posting this message on other Bible basics/Christian threads, where my participation has entailed lively discussion on theological matters.....

dear Amandaus
thanks for your reply although I could nearly predict what should it be!
I think need not to add some thing more than what Alexandra said but just one thing.
I guess it wasn't an issue for you if evolution theory for human has been fulfilled and wasn't any missing link in there, whereas for many animals he did it.

What you say about reconnection with creator is the truth. That makes all of us think and talk of religion and other things.

Alexandra,

You are right what you said about the forum rules. I, too, forgot about that and is why I continued the debate with you. As much as I would like to continue our heated, albeit, friendly debate about me being right and you being "not so right" I cannot go into the Buddhist site and continue it.

I do not have the time nor the inclination to learn about your false religion to go in there and continue this any further so let's just agree to disagree and when God calls the Holy Spirit up from the earth, you go ahead and chant your mantras, light your incense and rub your Buddha's belly for luck because if you continue to turn away from God, you will need every bit of luck you can get, although it won't help, because the judgement of God is going to fall and it will fall hard.

Alexandra, please don't look to the stars for your answers because you can look to the One who made those stars.

Yes, most Christians shy away from learning about the false religions, however, there are some Christians, like good Bible believing pastors and ministers, probably do or should learn about the false religions so they can counsel other people more wisely than I can. However, that too is between them and God.

I have a great deal of respect for you and your misguided views about God and the Bible and I wish you all of the best and I will pray for you.

Take Care and God Bless You - Vance

The only way we, as Christians can reach the lost is to engage them. No one said it would be easy.

Who is not lost? Pl. ponder over this.

Correct, humans are the ones who have to bend.

How rude. At least I took the time to learn about yours. Simply because we both question the others' beliefs, there's no need to ridicule them. And by 'learning about it' whether you adhere to it or not, the knowledge will at least give you a credible insight into the other person's psyche...

And that's exactly the kind of idiotic patronising comment I would expect from one as ignorant as you are about Buddhism.
If you can't say anything nice, or in a polite way, then don't say anything at all.




No, you haven't, and the above statements expose you for the ungracious and narrow-minded person you really are. At least TexasDave has the decency and the courtesy to engage constructively with me, even though our opinions are poles apart. you could learn something from his manner, you really could.

Alexandra,

I cannot apologize for what I said or what I am about to say

I am not interested in learning about Buddhism because according to God, it is a false religion and I am still learning about and growing in my walk with God.

I am not ungracious and if I am narrow minded because I believe that Jesus was born and then died for my sins and because I believe the Bible is the Word of God and the undeniable truth, then I guess I am narrow minded and that is okay because the road to Heaven is narrow as well. We, as Christians, are not here to learn about "people's psyche". We are here to glorify God and spread the Good News about Jesus Christ.

Understanding other peoples' religions and learning about their psyche is probably what drew you away from the Lord in the first place. That is how Satan works and traps people.

Christians always have to seemingly apologize for their actions and their beliefs in God and Jesus. Well, not this one. I am not about to apologize for my beliefs. On Judgment Day, you will be the one who will have to apologize to the Creator for rejecting Him and turning away from Him.

I know my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life. Where do you think your name is written? However, it is not too late for you to repent of your ways and come back to God because He is waiting for you to do that.

You mentioned something about chanting mantras for me earlier, people always talk about rubbing Buddha's belly for luck and other religions, yours included, light incense to purify their mind, body and spirit and the aura around them and none of that is going to help you on Judgment Day and I am just trying to help you see that.

I will admit that I am ignorant about the Buddhist religion as I am about the Muslim religion and any other non-Bible believing religion because it is my belief that they are all false religions if they do not follow the Bible and do not believe that Jesus died for our sins to be wiped clean and do not believe that God is the Alpha-Omega, the beginning and the end and do not believe that He wrote the Bible and created Heaven, Earth and Hell.

I am sorry you got angry with me but that is just Satan attacking you even more and trying to attack me but it won't work because I am a child of the King and a Warrior for Christ in His Army.

Repent of and rebuke your ways Alexandra. I beg of you. Do it before it is too late.

I will continue to pray for you and may God Bless you richly.

Hello amadeus1220

Which religions are false according to you?

well in that case you are even less of a human than I previously considered you to be. Hurting people's feelings is unkind. We should all be watchful about what we say to others lest our harshness offends and upsets them. I include myself, and as many will attest, I am careful in what I say.



As I said, simply through learning about Buddhism doesn't mean you'll be absorbing the teachings, if you don't want to....I read about genocides, but it doesn't make me want to go out and murder people..it teaches me about things that happen, and broadens my knowledge...


I have never said you swere ungracious or narrow minded for the above reasons, and i have never implied that what YOU do is false and neither have I ever intimated that I am mocking your faith nor what you believe in. My point is that if I hold you and your fasith in the highest respect (which I do) then I would expect the same level of respect and courtesy from you.


Actually, I became an agnostic and then an atheist for some time, before I even decided to look elsewhere, and explore the greater possibilities open to me...if anything turned me away from the question of God, sad to say, it was people like you....Many times, your good intentions bring about the opposite result, which means one of two things: Either YOU are personally just too much to take, and people don't want to listen to you - or Satan is a more convincing advocate than you are.



I would never want you to, nor expect you to apologise for your beliefs. Ever. I truthfully admire those whose faith is unshakeable. Just as my adherence to Buddhism is. And I don't believe any creator - should s/he exist, would demand an apology from me, because I don't believe them to be as severe, condemning or judgemental as you make them out to be. God's Love is unconditional. And if a person has proven themselves to be altruistic, loving and good, God will recognise that, and embrace them. You don't have the monpoly on God, and God has no religion. he favours nobody above or beyond anyone else, and will love, regardless.
If of course, God exists.


My name is close to yours, under the heading 'Buddhists'. ('B' comes before 'C' for Christians....! )If such a book exists, (which I doubt) then there are multiple chapters for every possible factor.


Incense is used in the Church too, for the same reasons.... 'Rubbing the Buddha's belly for luck' is like crossing your fingers and wishing on a star... everyone's done that...It's got nothing to do with Judgement day...if you look ate evrything with such blinkered severity, you must be a real buzz at parties!


Then how can you ever hope to have a well-structured, fair-minded, balanced discussion with anyone about anything, if all you do is stick your nose in just one book? do you think that the Jews are wrong to worship as they do? Jesus was a jew, remember.... I think you need to broaden your horizon a bit, i really do....


And here to, your perception is flawed. I was never angry with you, nor am I angry now. I'm sad for you. Sad that you feel so compelled to constrain yourself within such a restrictive straight-jacket, that seems to bind you so tightly your eyes are popping from their sockets...
With your prejudicial attitude, you'll never go up the ranks to anything more than Private....


I am sooooo happy. How on earth could I be otherwise?
You see, I never doubt what I know. You unfortunately are sometimes beset by doubt, because of your belief. That's the whole sad conundrum of faith...You never really ever fully KNOW, do you?


Thank you, I appreciate it.
At least whilst you have me as your focus, some other person is getting a break.

All of them, CDM.... every single one other than the one he is following. His is the only true religion, all the others are simply satan getting in the way.

Alexandra,
I know you are buddhist but I believe you are still searching. That buddhism is just another stepping stone like agnosticism and atheism was for you. Your coming to buddhism shows me the desire God has placed in your heart to worship. You have a hole in your heart shaped like Jesus Christ that only He can fill. I pray that someday you come back home.

Nope. I have truly found what I'm looking for. I ain't budging, and I say this with as much conviction and certainty as you do.

Within my heart dwells the Buddha-nature inherent in every living being, and the lotus bud awaits the opportunity to open...

I just wish you would permit me to speak to you of my doctrine, but you have expressed no desire to learn more of it, just for the sake of unilateral discussion...

So I cannot presume the right to do so.

But I continue to bless you for thinking of me as you do...

Yes, Thank you Alexandra for speaking for me on the previous page.

Cdmohatta, I will tell you which religions are false:

Any religion that fails to see God as the creator of Heaven and Earth.

Any religion that fails to acknowledge that Jesus was sent here by God to die for our sins.

Any religion that fails to see the Bible as the truth and the word of God.

Any religion that puts another god or idol before the One, God Almighty.

Any religion that fails to recognize that the one way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, Our Lord.

Any religion that thinks you can chant a mantra for everlasting life

Any religion that thinks you can confess your sins to a priest and say ten Hail Mary's and five Our Father prayers for redemption.

Any religion that is outside of the Bible and outside of Jesus Christ

If your religion does not believe that we were sanctified through the blood of Jesus Christ is a false religion and yes Alexandra, Satan is the Great Manipulator and the Great Tempter and he most certainly is telling you that your religion is okay to follow

Sorry Amadeus...to avoid 'listening' to unwanted voices in my ear, I'm afraid i have decided to select the ignore facility for you.
That just about wraps it up for us, therefore.

amadeus,
I agree with EVERYTHING you have said. It seems somewhat harsh to some but I know that sometimes we cannot sugarcoat the truth because nonbelievers will usually swallow the sugar and spit out the truth. The truth is sometimes bitter but itbeats the fires of hell by a long shot.

According to you other than Christianity all other religions are false. Did Jesus Christ give any such list or this was prepared by you? I consider Jesus as God but refuse to agree with you that other than Christianity all other religions are false. Youhave no authority to say that. Show me what Jesus said about false religions? Did he speak about mantras? Letus talk with open mind.

amadeus1220

You say-

Any religion that fails to recognize that the one way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, Our Lord.

Will you talk with open mind? If yes, I want to discuss the above. I would like to discuss all other statements made by you in your past one after another. If you want to maintain that you know the truth and others are false then no discussion. But if you respect what i say and I respect what you say, we will talk. Being a devout Hindu, I still maintain that Jesus is son of God and God. I say this because many Siddhas have seen Jesus in that light.

Coming back to your statement. Do you think Jesus could arrive on this earth in only one form? I say- Jesus is God. He can take as many forms as he wishes. We may not recognize him, but that is our ignorance. Pl. comment.

Also- Can anybody tell me about the evolution. What does the bible say about it?

cdmohatta,
If you believe Jesus Christ is God then you believe He was telling the truth when He said, " I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life; and NO ONE comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6 Jesus was saying He was the only way to heaven. That automatically makes all other ways ( religions) false. Jesus also said in John 3:18 that those who do not accept Him are already condemned. Jesus is God so God said there is only one way. Through Jesus.

I will never argue about what Jesus said. If he said something, it may have a deeper meaning. Give me time to respond to you on this.

Cdm,

I would love to have an open and frank discussion about what I said in the past posts and I also wrote quite a bit about evolution in a couple of them but iw ill tell you exactly about what the Bible says about evolution. Read it with an open mind.

Genesis 1:26 - 28 says:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our own image, according to our likeness, let him have dominion over the fish and the sea, over the birds of the air and over the cattle, over all of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them. Then God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it, have dominion over the fish of the sea; the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

So if we evolved from some primordial sludge from the ocean or from the apes, then how can we have dominion over them?

God created us in His image, if our image was apelike or sea sludge like, then why would our image change?

If we evolved from the apes, then why are there still apes and why aren't they birthing human babies?

I will tell you why. All life will produce like life.

Why did Darwin discount his own theories of evolution in later life?

Cdm, you can discuss or ask me anything you like. I was making sense to Alexandra and almost reached her so she chose to ignore me and my posts.

Iwould hope you don't that Cdm because that truly is Satan moving in her. Satan didn't like the fact that I was starting to reach her so he told her to shut me off ands she did.

Also you asked me what authority I have to say the things I did?

I was given the authority by Jesus Christ to say those things. He gave me the authority to say them the very day that he wrote my name in the Book of Life. The day I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior.

Want to know exactly what Jesus went through for us and why it is shameful for us not to believe in Him?
Follow this link to a very powerful, very stirring music video:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

You weren't even close, dear...you flatter yourself. You never 'almost reached me' and you know it. You have never made sense, and you never will.
I thought you weren't permitted to bear false witness?

And I can ignore or not, as I wish. Mostly, I wish. But I don't appreciate you telling lies at my expense, thank you, which is why I would at least like to claim the right to come in and correct wrong impression.

Ok whatever gets you through the night. However, deep in Satan's heart he knew I was reaching you and it scared him and that is why he told you to ignore me or apparently what you pick and choose to ignore.

I am still praying for you Alexandra.

How did you know I wrote anything about you if you are truly ignoring me? You are just picking and choosing.

However, you don't have to worry about me writing anything about you anymore. I opened the door for God to go into your heart so now I will wait for Him to convict you.

I have faith that once you shake off Satan's chains, you will become a great Warrior for Christ.

[quote=amadeus1220]Cdm,

I would love to have an open and frank discussion about what I said in the past posts and I also wrote quite a bit about evolution in a couple of them but iw ill tell you exactly about what the Bible says about evolution. Read it with an open mind.

Genesis 1:26 - 28 says:

Then God said, "Let us make man in our own image, according to our likeness, let him have dominion over the fish and the sea, over the birds of the air and over the cattle, over all of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them. Then God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it, have dominion over the fish of the sea; the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

So if we evolved from some primordial sludge from the ocean or from the apes, then how can we have dominion over them?

God created us in His image, if our image was apelike or sea sludge like, then why would our image change?

If we evolved from the apes, then why are there still apes and why aren't they birthing human babies?

I will tell you why. All life will produce like life.

Why did Darwin discount his own theories of evolution in later life?

Cdm, you can discuss or ask me anything you like. I was making sense to Alexandra and almost reached her so she chose to ignore me and my posts.

Iwould hope you don't that Cdm because that truly is Satan moving in her. Satan didn't like the fact that I was starting to reach her so he told her to shut me off ands she did.

Also you asked me what authority I have to say the things I did?

I was given the authority by Jesus Christ to say those things. He gave me the authority to say them the very day that he wrote my name in the Book of Life. The day I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior.

Want to know exactly what Jesus went through for us and why it is shameful for us not to believe in Him?
Follow this link to a very powerful, very stirring music video:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Would it be better if you persuade people with love of Christ rather than threat of Satan? You look like a true Christian. Why not leave the threat of Satan to God himself? You show only love and compssion of Christ. Is that OK?

I have tried both ways to try and reach her. The threat of Satan is very real as is the love of Jesus Christ and God. You would have to read all of the other posts to understand why Satan was brought into this anyway.

I always try to people about the Good News of Jesus Christ and the love that he has for all of us. Then when people start nixing it and telling me to prove it without using the Bible as proof, then they are just becoming ridiculous and I have to choose another path.

Ever since I read the book, "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Weise,
Hell has become even more real for me and it is a very scary place and I would like not to see anyone in there at all

Pity Satan! Now I realize how much Satan has been suffered from humans and why it didn't bow to Adam.

Pity Satan, indeed. He is going to be in a world of hurt when Jesus comes back

you call it he! I'm not sure but proud of it if it was a man any way. where did jeusus go and from where he will going to back? your God isn't present now! but Satan is still with us! lol
how much we would spend in dream/legend? let think

I agree with you. here is a small thought.
let us not tryto tell people that they are wrong about their beliefs. that immediately provokes the other person.
rather than that, let us talk good of our reliogion and get away if we find that we are not agreeing at all. May christ be with all of us.

If we walk away when we feel we are not agreeing with someone else, then we as Christians, are not doing our job.

If we just talk about how good our relationship is with Jesus without saying their beliefs are wrong, according to God's laws, then how will they know?

I have no problem having a fun time debating whether God exists or not to someone else, but when they tell me that I can't use the Bible as proof or the truth then they leave me no alternative
to go another route because the Bible is the epitomy of truth.

It is my job as a Christian to minister the gospels of Jesus Christ. It is my job as a Christian to tell of the Good News.

It is my job as a Christian to praise and worship God and tell people how greta He is. How he is the Great I Am, how He is the Alpha and Omega.

It is my job as a Christian to open the door in someone's heart so God can walk right in and convict them.

It's not even my job. Job is a bad word. It's my RESPONSIBILITY as a Christian to tell people who believe in Buddha, Mohammed and whoever else they believe in besides God, that they are indeed heading down the wrong path

I don't start out harsh, it's when people tell me to talk about God without using the Bible or when they call me Satan, then yes, I will get a bit offended and start hitting them with the harsh reality of where they heading and with whom they are heading there with.

It is a harsh reality so if you don't want to know, then don't ask or attempt to goad and everything will be cool.

If you do not follow the Laws of Christ, if you do not accept him into your heart, if you do not pray and ask Him for forgiveness of your sins, if you believe in any other god but God, if you believe the Bible is a fairytale, then you are going to Hell plain and simple.

There simply is no way to sugarcoat something like that.

I fully agree with you. but take education. You do not teach the higher maths immediately. you go from numerals. I believe that rather than talking in a way that blocks people, listen to them first. talk about how Jesus' love can change everything. I agree with what all you have said in your post and sometimes I asm also at a loss to understand about to explain the truth. But I have found- some people will never like to hear the truth. Some people will. I then talk to the second type.

I admire your love and committment to Christ. I feel blessed talking to you.