BellaOnline Forums Family Early Childhood Spanking illegal in California?

Jan said..... (sorry - I don't know how to make those little inserts you make Jan lol)

I was talking about the Culture of Poverty--the fact that children living in poverty have very different lives than other children, and these differences result in different needs. I'm not saying we should have low expectations, but we should be honest about what kinds of problems these children are dealing with in their daily lives.

May I present another dimension...

Children who live in poverty do have different lives to many people but they are not the only ones who have a different life. I am in daily contact with some children who come from insanely rich families ( kids of 10 who have their own Hummer (huge off road vehicles - I think that's what they're called :-)), driver and personal maids etc). Some of these kids are brought up to mix and treat others well. Some have some awful problems. We think that people who have money are all fine but that's not always the case. I know of so many middle class, rich, royal kids even, who hardly see their parents, have no one to talk to about their problems, never get to play with friends they make at school because they are only allowed to play with the 'right sort' of kids. I could tell you so much about some of these supposed 'happy' kids.
I don't think it matters what 'class' you belong to regarding behaviour problems. When I was young I used to wish my family were rich so that we could eat steak instead of tinned meatballs lol. Having seen what position and money do to some kids, I'm glad that I wasn't ha ha.

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for your input. I like the sound of the book by Chandler & McGrath.
I especially like the part where you mention using consequences to encourage good behaviour. I have been using that strategy for quite some time with children and I do find it works very well.
I will go in search of that book. Thanks!!

Anne

When do I get to change from Newbie on here lol? Having said that, it kind of makes me feel like a youngster again ha ha.

This topic has certainly kicked up a storm!!!
It's obviously one which will not be sorted out in a few weeks either! Good choice of topic Cynthia! Well done :-)

It's interesting to see the cultural differences coming through in the discussion. Fascinating for sure. Wish there were people from other parts of the world participating to add an even bigger dimension. I'm a Brit in Asia but I can only tell things from what I've learned over the years here. A true Asian, African, from anywhere that isn't 'western' piont of view would be great.
Fingers crossed lol.

Anne.

Yes, I've read Payne--and many other, better researched works. The "culture of poverty" has no firm basis in reality. Studies have found that we tend to remember stereotype-confirming behavior in those who are considered different, while ignoring the many times members of our own group did the same things, because in the latter instance, such behavior doesn't trigger a pre-existing mental schema, or set of beliefs, that can be applied to explain the behavior. So the middle and upper class can do all the same things as the lower class, but still be viewed as individuals, while the lower class who do anything negative are viewed through a group lens. Social conditioning is critical here: by training our minds to not only see differences--which they would see anyway, and categorize as a matter of evolutionary psychology--but also to attach dualistic value judgments to those categories in terms of better/worse, superior/inferior, etc., the culture in which we live has led us away from the ability to think critically, and ultimately in a rational manner about these kinds of things.

Children don't need to be "given a fish" (have someone else meet their every need). They need support and example regarding how to fish for themselves. Survival and independence are good things; not bad. Why would you want to extinguish these characteristics in children; if instead you can help them find different ways to manifest them.

Okay..nevermind..I'm feeling that it's futile at this point to keep contributing to this discussion.

Disagreement on these issues would only be natural, I should think. Though I highly recommend "Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice" by Paul Kivel to those who have been trained in the "Culture of Poverty." This book provides an alternate lens and may give you greater insight into the issue of group-think and the dangers of stereotyping behaviors.

I do feel, however, that what is important for readers to take away from "this" discussion (the one related to "spanking" that is) is that there is more than one take on the issue; that discipline comes in many, many forms; that each child is an individual; and that no one method will work for all children.

I think everyone is missing the point here. It has been pointed out that spanking is controversial and parents have differing views. However, the government should not be intervening to tell parents whether or not they can spank. Child abuse is illegal, spanking is not abuse. I think some people are using faulty logic in linking the two concepts. Wouldn't resources be better used to find those that are ABUSING their children, not those that give a random spanking? This whole thing makes me angry and sick. I am a mother of two, and frankly I will punish my kids the way I see fit so that they are happy, healthy, productive adults. And if there are "bleeding hearts" out there that don't agree with my tactics, I could care less. Stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours.

Sarah~
Welcome to the forum!
You are right, this is not a question of whether or not parents should spank, but whether or not it should be made illegal. In my opinion, most constituents probably feel as you do (Stay out of my business/don't want goverment policies interfering with parenting preferences) and will vote against it at poll time.
Thank you for taking the time to post!
Cyn

Punishment does not work. That's why this and other forums are full with "I tried everything, nothing works." When the child changes the behavior it is for the wrong reason, and so it causes emotional damage. Punishment, including spanking, doesn't work because it creates behavior by fear instead of by love and understanding. Creating a law about it is a good start. Even if it doesn't directly reach those who need it the most, parents on the fence about it, will think twice before they spank, and start reading books or taking classes on how to raise child without punishment, threat or any infliction of pain. All those teach fear and aggression.

I would hope that over time parents will face some learning requirments (just like plumbers and other professionals). We; all love our children. If we knew that there is a much more effective way to have our children act well and flourish, we would want it. Well, there IS a way. I learned it and apply it succesfully. For example, the book, Raising Our Children, Raising Oursevles is about understanding how to respond to a child such that he behaves well, not because he fears you, because he wants to, of his own free will. Life with chidlren who behave well from their own free will is peaceful and fun. I hope this law passes and is followed with educational requirements.