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#271092 - 09/24/06 12:18 PM Christians and Pornography
Diana Pederson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Lansing, Michigan
Use this discussion area to discuss the article posted at http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art46090.asp, Christians and Pure Thoughts.

What are your feelings about the statistics: 50% of Christian men and 20% of Christian women are addicted to porn.

How does this make you feel about leaders in your church? Does your church interview potential leaders and ask questions about whether they are into porn or not?

Do you feel that some Christian Romances are perilously close to being little more than soft porn, like so many of secular romance novels?

How should we as Christians respond to this crisis in our churches today?
_________________________
Diana Pederson
christianliterature host

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#271093 - 09/24/06 04:59 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Lynne - ChristianLiving Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Wolf

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 5740
Loc: Indiana
I think that the statistcs of Christians are likely not much different than non-believers or those who are non-church-attending. Porn addiction just shows that we live in a fallen world and Christians are people like anyone else. Fortunately, there are many churches now that offer support groups that deal with all kinds of addictions as well as other emotional difficulties. - Those who don't believe in satan won't agree but I think that pastors, ministers, priests, and any church leader is a target for satan's lies and temptations if they are not continually defending themselves with prayer, Bible study and accountability groups.

The danger in setting up Christians as perfect is that when they have a problem they are afraid to get help. They are afraid to admit it to anyone. More and more churches are making it easier for them to 'come out' and admit the problem and get help.

As for the other subject - the Christian novels - I haven't read any with explicit sex scenes, but I agree with you that you wouldn't want to appear to promote any that cross the line. I find that many romance novels cause marital problems just because it causes the reader to expect her or his spouse to live up to the romantic image portrayed in the book.

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#271094 - 09/25/06 08:55 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
MoonShadows Offline
Jellyfish

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 177
Loc: Arkansas
The Priest at my former Church told me not long ago that 50% of the men at the Church admitted to him that it is a problem for them.

Maybe it is worse for religious men because they have to try so hard to keep it a secret and that only makes things worse.

On an online discussion board I used to get on a man who admitted to me that he was addicted to it told me that "It is the crack cocaine of the internet." Meaning that you could get addicted to it from the first time you look at it and it is as hard to stop doing as crack.

I think maybe he was right.
_________________________
"All of us invent ourselves. Some of us just have more imagination than others."


Cher

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#271095 - 09/30/06 12:15 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
lenanelsondooley Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 1
Loc: Texas
I'm amazed at this article. I'm multi-published in Christian romance for a major publishing house, and I read a lot of Christian romance from major publishing houses. I have not found any with sex scenes, and I don't write any with sex scenes.

Where are you getting these "Christian Romances" from? Maybe small presses or e-publishing, but I'm sure not from major publishing houses.

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#271096 - 09/30/06 12:31 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Jessy31 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 1
Hi - I'm new to BellaOnline. I read the aritcle titled Christians and Pornography, and I'm a little confused by it. I've been reading Christian/inspirational fiction for years and love reading books I can share and discuss with my daughter. We've never found any Christian fiction with sex scenes. Where are you finding these 'so called' Christian books? Are they being self-published? Are they e-books? I'm very concerned about this. I pray a few self-pubbed writers are NOT giving Christian fiction a bad reputation, but especially not risking the reputation of Christ. Can you give me some author names and titles, please?
Jess
Faith, Hope & Love of Romance Writers of American
American Christian Fiction Writers

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#271097 - 09/30/06 02:31 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
MichelleReads Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 1
I'm also new to Bella Online. I'm a book reviewer for Christian fiction (though I do occasionally review a secular title) and I want to know what books the reviewer is talking about. I've read nearly 200 Christian novels in the past two years and have only read one with an explicit sex scene, and it was Women's fiction, not a romance. BTW, I disliked that story and the message it gave to the reader. Please, fill me in here. I didn't know this sort of Christian romance novel existed! Even if you are not comfortable disclosing the book title and author, can you at least share the publisher?

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#271098 - 09/30/06 06:19 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Calledtowrite Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2
I was surprised to find that this reviewer was being sent books represented as Christian fiction that had sex scenes in them. I write Inspirational fiction and know that that is not acceptable to Christian publishers. People who buy Christian romances want to know the book is "safe" and they aren't going to be confronted with explicit sex, cursing and the like. Perhaps authors of Inspirational romances that meet this reviewers standards should send her some new releases to review. We can all help get the word out about great titles that anyone of any age can enjoy. My book, The Winds of Sonoma, is a book like that. I've had teenage girls and grandmothers write to me and say they loved it. - Nikki Arana <img src="/images/graemlins/queen.gif" alt="" />

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#271099 - 09/30/06 06:40 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 764
Loc: Chandler, Arizona
I agree with Lynn. Pornography is so hard on people. It truly is a snare of the enemy in that it destroys good people from the inside out. And all it takes is one nibble on the fishhook to reel someone in. I wish that everyone who is staring at their computer screen right now looking at some pornographic material could have someone else secretly take their picture. Maybe then it would make them think twice about what they are ACTUALLY doing... and not what is blinding them in their minds.
_________________________
JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics

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#271100 - 09/30/06 07:33 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Diana Pederson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Lansing, Michigan
I won't reveal publishers or authors due to the risk of being sued! However, I have another book with too much sex in it on my review shelf right now. Nikki Arana has said this must be an aberration from this particular publisher.

As I said in this article, the publisher will be notified about why the book isn't reviewed.

I've also discovered a couple other "Christian books" were NOT published by strictly Christian Publishers.

Thank you everyone who has responded so far. This issue needs to be addressed by writers and publishers. As one writer says, no one wants to hurt true Christian writers by giving Christian Novels a bad name.

Some secular publishers are pushing "Christian books" that don't match what I expect for a Christian book. Others apparently are self-published or done at those places that let ANYONE publish a book.

I am looking forward to some books that have been offered by members of a Christian Romance writers email group. It's good to finally connect with the writers themselves who are willing to vouch for their books.
_________________________
Diana Pederson
christianliterature host

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#271101 - 10/02/06 08:47 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
FrankJBN Offline
Gecko

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 403
"What are your feelings about the statistics: 50% of Christian men and 20% of Christian women are addicted to porn."

My feeling is that these are made-up statistics and absolutely false.

Is there any reliable source for them?

Think of it: at least half of all men and 1 of every five women you know "addicted" to pornography?

You realize that this means at least one and likely two of the posters above are addicted? C'mon, 'fess up.


Edited by FrankJBN (10/02/06 08:48 AM)

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#271102 - 10/02/06 09:29 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
MoonShadows Offline
Jellyfish

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 177
Loc: Arkansas
In my small circle of relatives and aquaintances, my first husband was addicted to pornography and that was the reason why after 17 years of marriage I left him.

It has become a problem in my 2nd marriage of 10 years.

My brother's wife left him after over 25 years of marriage (both professing Christians) because of HIS addiction to pornography. Which he never admitted to me until after his divorce.

An in-law has problems with it. He is also a professing Christian.

The Priest at the Catholic Church I used to attend admitted to me he has had problems with it since accidently seeing a picture someone left along side a road, when he was a child. He also said about 50% of the men at his Church have a problem with it.

My online friend, who's husband runs a Church radio station and is a fundamentalist Baptist has to have his wife change the password on their computer because he cannot contol his urges to look at internet porn.

The "reliable souce" is people like ME who have to fight this in their lives.

The best excuse I heard form a Professing Christian man who has this problem was: "Well, the Bible doesn't SPECIFICALLY say anything about NOT looking at porn, so it is OK".
_________________________
"All of us invent ourselves. Some of us just have more imagination than others."


Cher

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#271103 - 10/04/06 08:30 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
FrankJBN Offline
Gecko

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 403
I appreciate your reply, but I cannot credit you as a "reliable source".

I am not saying that you are not reliable, but you are not a reliable source supporting this allegation for two reasons.

First, your information does not support this claim. You mention 7 men that you claim to personally know to be addicted to pornography. I am not a Christian, but even I know more than 14 Christian men. Your information does not appear to support a claim of a 50% rate among men; you mention no women at all, therefore you fail as a reliable source supporting a claimed 20% addiction rate among women.

Additionally, among those whom you claim personal knowledge of their addiction, some are men as to whom you may have reason to have a less than unbiased view - an ex-husband you left and a current husband you have problems with.

Secondly, your example of the priest who claims 50% of his congregation are addicted is certainly invalid as hearsay. He has told you something about another claiming it to be true. This sort of 'he said that he said' is known as so unreliable that it may not even be heard, let alone credited as reliable, in a legal setting.

Anecdotal evidence has very little use. As an example, let me assure you that of all the smokers I personally know (some hundreds of people - yes, I know a lot of people) only one has ever died of lung cancer. Based on this, can we assume that there is only a very insignificant link between smoking and lung cancer?

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#271104 - 10/04/06 10:05 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
Alexandra Offline
Zebra

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 3313
Loc: Verulamium, England
I have to say - I think he has a point, Moonshadow.....
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#271105 - 10/04/06 10:29 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
MoonShadows Offline
Jellyfish

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 177
Loc: Arkansas
I can only claim what I know from my own experience. As someone who is dealing with and has dealt with that.

I can't really speak for "aquaintances" I know and do not spend 24/7 a week with.

As for the Priest, I don't know what reason he woul dhave had for lying to me about it.

50%, 10% or 25% what does it really matter? All I know is it causes alot of heartache for alot of people but those who claim to be Christian and have that problem must struggle with having to keep it secret, so I would think whatever number being reported is probably not the truth.
_________________________
"All of us invent ourselves. Some of us just have more imagination than others."


Cher

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#271106 - 10/04/06 04:18 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Lynne - ChristianLiving Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Wolf

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 5740
Loc: Indiana
Quote:
50%, 10% or 25% what does it really matter? All I know is it causes alot of heartache for alot of people


Exactly. Focusing on the numbers just takes away from the point of Diana's post. It causes heartache to many people Christian or not. It is a serious problem and one that is either ignored or sometimes even glorified or at least thought of a humorous.

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#271107 - 10/06/06 05:51 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
Diana Pederson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Lansing, Michigan
I've studied statistics in two different graduate courses. I came to one conclusion. Statistics are only reliable for the population used to create those statistics. No survey except perhaps the US Census, ever contacts every person in the population that lives in the United States.

Actually, I am wondering how many of these surveys include the significant numbers of non-English speakers in the United States?

Lynne Chapman states my feelings exactly: Regardless of the numbers, pornography is causing a lot of heartache in Christian homes today.

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#271108 - 10/10/06 11:08 AM Re: Christians and Pornography
FrankJBN Offline
Gecko

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 403
Takes away from the point?

I'm sorry. When someone says: "What are your feelings about the statistics: 50% of Christian men and 20% of Christian women are addicted to porn." the numbers are the point.

This was the question asked in the initial post.

if the numbers are false, it changes the entire complexion of the argument concerning porn addiction.



Usually an argument such as "50%, 10% or 25% what does it really matter?" means that the alleged statistics cited are completely insupportable.

This ties inextricably to "it causes alot of heartache for alot of people", well, not so many people as you may think. Because If the numbers are actually 1% for men and so low as to be unmeasurable for women it's a whole different discussion. In this case, it's not really a lot of people at all is it?

As to the allure porn being so strong that merely seeing one picture causes addiction, I think if this were true, we would be talking numbers more like 100%, for I would guess, this is a guess not a statistic, that every man has seen a picture of a naked women, the intent of which picture was sexual.

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#271109 - 10/17/06 07:15 PM Re: Christians and Pornography
jbull Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 13
Loc: MN
Every person is different on how they handle temptation. I don't think it is a good idea to put percentages on it. Just to say there are alot of people that has a problem with it and what we should do as christians is pray for them. You will not be able to get rid of the problem because we live in a sinful world. But God tells us in his word that we should pray for the sinners, that they will know the truth and the truth will set them free.
_________________________
J.Bull

As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

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#333838 - 08/11/07 09:23 AM Re: Christians and Pornography [Re: Diana Pederson]
havehope Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 4
Hello to all! I am new here and was reading some of the content about Christians and Pornography. I do not believe people who are porn seekers have a pure heart of Christ and it is satanic.I believe pornography comes from the minds of those who have extremely low self esteem and are burden with other self detructive issues. As a teenager my husband was introduced to pornograhpy by his dad! YES, that's what I said, and how sick is that?? His dad thought it would help to teach him manly acts. Why or how could he do that? We cannot even phathom the thought of introducing pornography to our children. We are doing everything possible to raise them on a Christ like path. We are born again, spirit filled Christians and have had much counseling due to this issue as the pornography addictin my husband had leaked over and over agian. I can tell you I am totally against pornography. I am here to tell you it nearly destroyed my marriage. I argued with my husband (now totally clean but had an addiction to it)for years that it was wrong. He would always use the ole "but I'm not doing it in the flesh" or "it's just adding spice to my mind so when I'm with you". I could not agree!! It was an excuse!! 10 years ago, finally he was broken with prayer. He prayed what ever it takes, God, to be freed from it. And it worked. But it was an enormous struggle we went thru to get over it. We have been married 20 years now, and a book was published about it and the details to all this, ironically the book is named after his prayer "What Ever It Takes,God" by John Oarc. If you are in need of real life story and help to overcome the obstacles in your marriage, ie: pornograhy, adultery, pain and the struggle of forgivenessgive...give his book a try.
Faith Up- No matter how long you stuggle!!


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#339960 - 09/10/07 04:12 AM Re: Christians and Pornography [Re: Diana Pederson]
ginalee Offline
Amoeba

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 54
Thank you everyone who has responded so far. This issue needs to be addressed by writers and publishers. As one writer says, no one wants to hurt true Christian writers by giving Christian Novels a bad name.

Some secular publishers are pushing "Christian books" that don't match what I expect for a Christian book. Others apparently are self-published or done at those places that let ANYONE publish a book.

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#340144 - 09/10/07 06:16 PM Re: Christians and Pornography [Re: Diana Pederson]
Lisa_Orlando Offline
Parakeet

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1112
Sadly for people who truly practice Christianity, I think many people use that title to hide who they truly are. Unfortunately we have seen many examples of people hiding sordid practices behind the title Christian, white picket fence, wife and kids.

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#341168 - 09/14/07 09:22 PM Re: Christians and Pornography [Re: Lisa_Orlando]
Cnote Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Amoeba

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 61
Loc: Atlanta, GA
This is a wonderful topic and I have enjoyed reading everyone's responses. I want to add to Lisa's comment. You are right some people do use the title of Christianity to hide their secret issues and actions.

However we must also realize that we are ALL sinners saved by the grace of God. The bible tells us that "All have sinned and come short..." I always say that the only perfect person who has ever walked this planet is Jesus and none of us are Him.

Daily we have to put on the full protection of God and hide His word in our heart so that we may not sin. Jbull is right...we must pray for the people who sin (i.e. Kirk Franklin...who admitted his addiction) and for the rust of us...the people who are not Jesus.

Blessings to you all!
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Editor for the Gospel and Christian Website at Bellaonline.com

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