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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486 |
"That is what I meant by "turned His back", not that He left Him high and dry. God turned because He could not bear to watch His only Son go through that."
Yet didn't you, or someone else say that this was the sacrifice God REQURED? If Jesus consented, then it was still because God wanted it - the painful death of 'his son'?~!
My parents weren't perfect, but never once did they turn their backs on me because they couldn't bear to see my pain. They were right there to comfort and reassure me, as most loving parents are when their child is suffering great pain, or lying mutilated on the road after a traffic accident. And yes, I've seen some terrible ones. They hold their child close, getting soaked in their child's blood and brain fluid. Yes. But God, apparently no. He hasn't the stomach for it!
Sorry, but I'm 100% against any kind of blood sacrifices. And to think that any 'god' would even expect it is frankly sickening.
Patience.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 228
Shark
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OP
Shark
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 228 |
The fact remains that if God created us, then he should have known exactly what sort of mess we would get into. Blaming us for it and calling it 'sin' is a cop out on the part of the Bible literalist's god! If God is responsible for our creation then he bears ALL the blame for his flawed creation.
"Look beyond the disability, see the perfection of the soul". RJG
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822 |
Michelle,
You explained yourselve beautifully.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822 |
Patience,
I am surprised by your words. For someone who believed so fully in God to want to be a laypreacher to go to the other extreme.
You don't have to answer this publically but let me ask you a question... Is the reason for your turning away from God the result of so called Christians that hurt you or because of God himself?
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486 |
Dear Carennedy, No, it wasn't Christian people who changed my way of looking at things. No human could have taken away the faith I had then.
It was a long time in the process. A great deal of study and soul searching was undergone before I began to seriously question the whole issue of the Bible teachings, and the God they showed me.
I came to the conclusion that much of the Bible was history; - much was legend and myth; - much was personal opinion of the times, and I rejected it as the word of God.
I then questioned the reality of the God portrayed in the Bible. Then I questioned the existance of a God at all.
I reached the conclusion that if there is a God, this being's nature is totally different from the God of the Bible. The God of the OT is NOT a God of unconditional love, but a remarkably small 'human' type entity with the tantrums of a toddler.
In short, the God of the bible is far too small for me. Jealous, petty, vindictive, punishing, demanding proof of love - and it is all the more disgusting because these behaviours are explained away as demonstrations of 'love' for his people and for us!!!
Yes, it is a total 'turn around'. But it was not a sudden decision. It was a growing awareness and certainty that took several years in the process.
There is a great deal of wisdom in the Bible, but I feel it is a dangerous thing to take literally.
Patience.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822
Parakeet
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Parakeet
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 822 |
If you are like patience was and you find yourself struggling with the hard questions, please take a moment to find answers from scholars and scientists. Take a moment to check out this site. Case for a CreatorCase for ChristianityCase for ChristYou may be surprised about what you find out. Patience, I understand you are content and that you have found your own peace. I pray for only the best for you.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486 |
Thanks Carennedy, and I wish the same for you too, in all sincerity.
Patience.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764 |
The fact remains that if God created us, then he should have known exactly what sort of mess we would get into. Blaming us for it and calling it 'sin' is a cop out on the part of the Bible literalist's god! If God is responsible for our creation then he bears ALL the blame for his flawed creation.
This sounds like something I heard my son say to me a few days ago:
I was having a conversation with my son the other day and he was mad at me for not reacting the way he thought I should in a situation. He was telling me how he thought I should have reacted. He was mad. He went to his room and didn't speak to me the rest of the night except to tell me goodnight. He was still mad the next day. He held to his judgement of my non reaction and he accused me of not interveneing on his behalf. For all his life I have hammered into my children that one should always stand up for other people when they thought the other person couldn't stand up for themselves. And here my own son was accusing me of not standing up for him according to what I have preached all his life. He blamed me for not doing anything and it resulting in him having to do something himself.
This conversation brought this to mind because it reminds me of what we do to God. We expect him to do what we think He should do. We think he makes too much over one thing and not enough over another. Or we think God is being totally unfair about one subject and way over the top tolerant on another. We expect God to think like us.
I never stopped loving my son. I didn't turn my back on him in his situation. To quote one of my favorite movies, Nemo, "Let's see what Squirt does...", I wanted to see how my son would choose to handle it. Would he incorporate some of my philosophy into his situation or would he develope his own? Would his own principals line up with mine or would he stray from what I've told him?
I don't agree with everything my son chooses to do,(he's 16), and sometimes he has to work things out for himself. More, now that he's getting older. I've given him all the tools I can, now it's his turn to make those decisions for himself.
Now, before you decide to berate me for comparing anyone to a child, I'm not. I see this as a classic example of how we look at God and say, "Why don't you do something about this?! Your so all powerful, just strike them with lightening or make money appear on my doorstep! You can, after all your God, right?!"
I know because I've done it myself, just about everyday! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think we just don't understand God, just like when we were kids and we didn't understand everything our folks did or why they did it. I don't think He will ever fit into the box I've made for Him no matter how many times I try to make over the box. He just doesn't fit into it. Just when I think I've got something figured out, He pulls a fast one and I have to start all over again. That look that my son gives me when he doesn't like what I do, is the same look I give God when He doesn't do what I want Him to do. And just like my son doesn't have the authority to make me do anything his way, I don't have the authority to demand that God do it may way.
Just food for thought.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764 |
A gunman holds my 15 year old son on one side, but offers to give him back to me if I will just choose to give him one of my other two children, my 9 year old daughter, or my 3 year old son - in his place to kill. I actually tried to logically think about this situation, and wound up weeping for an hour, it was not a decision I could even try to comtemplate logically. And that was just a thought.
Your heart is so beautiful it makes me cry. Your kindness and love and thoughtfulness towards others makes me want to sit quietly and just listen to you. Thank you Michelle... :x
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