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On the contrary, it has EVERYTHING to do with it....!

The Immaculate Conception is the description of how God's saving grace acted in Mary's life. It could have happened another way in order for her to be the Mother of God. The process/time was God's perogative. So, the Virgin Birth of Jesus didn't have to be connected to the Immaculate Conception.

It was connected with the immaculate conception, because in order for her to have been assigned the role of Jesus' Mother, she could not have been first guilty of original sin. Her very existence and state would have ruled out the purity of Jesus' origins...That is why the Catholic Council of Rome decided that she would have to be portrayed as a virgin, born without sin. it was a human decision, not a Godly one.

That's true, that concept of the conception (like that?) has to do with the idea of Mary as the pure vessel. Yet, the purity does not come from her own actions, but the grace of God working in her life. She states that God is her savior. She was conceived through normal human relations, but through the grace of God was sanctified from the moment of her conception. Catholics acknowledge this when we state, "...Mary full of grace..." She is full of the grace of God. It wasn't because she did it through her own actions. That's palagianism.

What is original sin?

Original sin is according to the Roman Catholic Council of Rome, what we as humans are already born with, as a result of the fornication between our parents, and their parents, and their parents before them.....all the way back to Adam and Eve, who really fouled things up by going against God's wishes....so they were condemned to wearing clothes ("because they were ashamed of their nakedness".... this was a way to therefore put in the minds of people that a naked body is a shameful thing, and wrong in God's eyes....! I mean, I ask you!) That's how we're born, right? Right. So that makes us sinful.....And that we are charged with labouring and toiling instead of having everything handed onto a plate, to us, and that labour will be painful and distressing (God states it should be so, in the Bible!) I wonder how many hard-line fundamentalist Christian women still opt for a pain-free birth by taking painkillers during labour?....Hmmmmm....
But because of Adam and Eve's sins, all those years ago (lol) we are condemned to being born of sin.... But the RC council of Rome had to make an exception of mary, so she was decreed to not only have been born Immaculate, so she had no sin at birth, (making her a worthy vessel for The Son of God) but that she also gave birth to him, apparently never having "known" a man.

However, the Koran describes the birth of Jesus as having been painful, even though God put food and drink her way to ease her pain.... But the Bible makes no mention of her labour...in fact, it glosses over the process very lightly....

Sorry....That's a brief outline of original Sin....

'Hail mary Full of Grace' doesn't mean that she was a Virgin, or Immaculate.... In fact, nobody really knows what happened when she became pregnant, because the whole story is merely the version of what someone imagines an Angel might have said to her....because the only two people present at the time were Mary and the Angel...and as far as I know, mary was never interviewed or asked about her encounter with the angel. And she never spoke to anyone about it. So it's all heresay anyway.....

Because that is what Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition teaches us.

Here is a link that explains quite well why we believe in Mary's perpetual virginity:

Mary: Ever Virgin

This article also includes commentary by the early Church Fathers, as well as mentions that... "Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary�s virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves�Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli�honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants."

And here's a link that explains that the Greek word for brother (adelphos) and sister (adelphe) have a wide meaning in the Bible - and does not simply refer to the literal meaning of full siblings or half siblings:

Brethren of the Lord



Peace in Christ,

That really surprises me since Mary's perpetual virginity has always been the teaching of the Church.



I've never thought of Joseph's role as second-rate. It's believed that he was older than Mary and probably died before Jesus' adult ministry. And if he had been alive it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't have been mentioned in the gospels.



Peace in Christ,

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Regarding Mary setting impossible standards for women today with regards to healthy sexuality, today on EWTN Radio I heard an interview of Christopher West. He's been very involved in "translating" some of Pope John Paul II's work on "Love and Responsibility" and "Theology of the Body." Anyway, he has written a new book, and, I'm sorry to say I don't remember the title. What Christopher was talking about was an old heresy from a few years after the Church's beginning (a few hundred). It said that spirit is good, body is bad. People had the idea that our bodies, and any of the natural things that go along with our bodies, were sinful. They believed we were to live "above our bodies," in the Spiritual realm, and even have contempt for our bodies.

He talked about how John Paul II told us that our bodies are sacred, as well as our spirits. We are made in the image and likeness of God, remember. Adam and Eve did not hide their "private" body parts, out of shame, until they had sinned.

I believe what Christopher was saying; that is, that we cannot separate body and soul (or spirit) in this life. When we are in a blessed marital union, our sexuality is a huge gift from God. Becoming one with Christ, and becoming one with one's spouse IN Christ includes sexual intercourse. Natural Family Planning also teaches that, by becoming closer to our bodies and the miracles that they are, we women can learn when we might conceive, and either use that time to try to conceive (God willing - that's His business if we do), or to abstain for awhile in prayer, and avoid intercourse. Husbands are involved by keeping the records in writing on forms/charts provided. Husband and wife talk about the most intimate functionings of her body, and his body is involved, also.

Sorry if this is too long. I just think that John Paul II gave the Church a great gift by his writings about this. Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant, and made an agreement to remain chaste throughout her life, and evidently Jospeph did, as well. That was not so unusual in their times.

Hope this helps. I want to read Christopher West's new book!
Deb