BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Pagan What does "pagan" mean on this message board?

I found this board a couple of weeks ago, and have been lurking and reading some posts since then. This forum has been the one that I have read most extensively.

But it seems to me that despite the description of the forum, pagan means Wiccan. Is that true or is it that the majority of members who would describe themselves as pagans follow a Wiccan tradition?

I get a lot of Wiccans who chat here, but not everyone is. I don't consider myself a Wiccan, but in the US, Neo-Paganism has a lot of Wiccan influence.

A Wiccan is a type of Pagan, but not all Pagans are Wiccans. I get a lot of email fromm people who are eclectic solitaries, so it's hard to say how those folks might define themselves.

This is a question that I had early on, and one that is still slightly confused in my mind. But, my perception of things is that it pretty much depends on what you want to be called. There are obvious trads that wouldn't fall under Wicca, but there are some that could easily be called one thing or another. "A rose by any other name" and all of that.

Plus, I've read books on general Paganism that say almost the exact same thing as books on Wicca. Then a book on Wicca will contradict another book by saying that you are only Wiccan if you do 1, 2, & 3.

I call myself "Wiccan" because, 1) it feels right, 2) most of my beliefs fall somewhere under the heading, 3) I don't know what else to call my religion and 1 & 2 persist... I guess just Paganism would be fine too. I'm impartial overall. I guess we all just need to find a way to label what we feel.

Any other thoughts?

I'm aware that many different spiritual paths can be called pagan - that's not what I meant when I asked the question.

What I meant was I don't see posts from Druids, from shamans (either from North or South American Indians, etc.) or people who say, "I'm a witch, but not Wiccan." (Which is what I am.) I have no tradition, nor do I only worship deities from any one particular pantheon. I'm also aware that a great number of shamans would say they are not pagan, since arguably, shamanism predates a whole lot of other earth based religions by a few centuries.

It just seemed as if the majority of posts in this forum were from Wiccans, and I was just curious as to where the other pagans were. I think it would be cool to compare festival celebrations, not only which ones different folks observe, but also the mythology or oral history that accompanies the observance.

The only high holy days, if you will, that I see noted in the forum are those of Wicca. I have a feeling if we all shared our own celebrations, we would see themes emerge - themes that would astound us with the sense of oneness we could feel.

SharpChick, welcome to the boards!!! I would be intersted in the comparision of beliefs. Im not Wiccan, Pagan, or anything in the heading but I am chirstian and the topic would be fasinating!!!!

Though I haven't seen many other traditions here, there are many on MySpace if you do a search for Pagan Groups... I don't know why this forum doesn't attract many from other traditions...

I'm still exploring. I'm a Pagan who is exploring the Wiccan faith, so I woulnd't tell someone 'Hey, lookie at me, I'm a Witch!' Not yet anyways. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I read a lot of wiccan books, but do not consider myself wiccan. I am pagan. I am a witch.

I identify as a Neo-Pagan Witch and an Alchemist. How I write this is partially shaped by my own experiences and interests and partially shaped by what people ask me about.

Since this is a web site based in America, where you've got a lot of people of Western European heritage, it's not surprising the Wicca has such a strong influence on the beliefs of a majority of North American Pagans.

Post deleted by articulatekitten

I am also new here--& I'm very glad my friend turned me on to this board. I think I'll learn a lot here <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I identify myself as an "eclectic pagan," mostly because there's no one term that really fits. I come from a Christian background, have studied a number of different religions, & have been influenced by all of them.

I identify with Wicca to some degree; but paganism is a
more general term & seems to fit me better. I'm a sort of polyglot, I suppose <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MM,
I identify myself as a Practicing Shamanic ecclectic witch.

I use to just say witch but I have found I'm much more then just a witch.

SapphireMoon

I too am new here. I usually identify as a hedgewitch, kitchenwitch, or Goddessian. I don't follow all of the wicca ways, but more of the ancient Goddess paths, and Mother Earth. Been a witch for over twenty years now. Bright blessings.

"Pagan" seems to be a term that is defined and redefined constantly, and I'm about to toss my own definition onto the pile. It certainly has come a long way from the Latin paganus (country dweller) and it doesn't seem like we're talking about anybody who doesn't subscribe to one of the Peoples of the Book religions. So what is Pagan?

Foremost, a Pagan is someone who is aware of the divine/the source/the hamster driving the universe/whatever you wish to call it inherent in the natural world. This doesn't necessarily mean trees and turtledoves, but more in what is natural all around us all the time. Having gained this awareness, a Pagan then develops some kind of relationship with said power, something you might call worship or communing or something entirely different.

"Pagan" still implies polytheism, even if Pagans themselves are practicing other forms of belief. Personally I'd say Paganism is very open-ended on the theism question, and also brings in different ideas such as animism.

To be Pagan is to have respect for all other forms of belief. To this end, Pagans do not proselytize, nor should there be any "my way is better than yours". In fact, to be Pagan is to be open to the wisdom to be found in any and all faiths.

The confusion between Paganism and Wicca--where do I begin? Essentially Paganism is an umbrella term for many paths which share some essential commonalities. Wicca, in my view, is a religion unto itself, with its own doctrine and laws. Sometimes Wicca has a Pagan flair, and sometimes it doesn't. I think the wrench in the gears is the word Witch, which is used by some Wiccans and some non-Wiccans. You must have seen the "Witch not Wiccan" self-description somewhere online. I've read several authors who advocate that Wiccans call themselves Wiccans to avoid confusion.

Here's my understanding, for what it's worth.
The Wheel of the Year is Wiccan.
The "harm none" rule is Wiccan.
The ritual tools are Wiccan.
I know I'm missing some things, but my point is that self-described Pagans may borrow these and other things from Wicca (and certainly Wicca borrowed some of these from other traditions, but that's for another time). The practices of a Pagan and a Wiccan may very well not line up the way it might be expected.

Okay, end of rant. I'm happy to be on this board!

I always say:

All Wicca are Pagan, but not all Pagans are Wicca

I respect peoples right to worship how they see fit and wish others would do me the same favor, however christians won't leave me alone. When they get in my face, I tell them I am a Pagan, or that I live a Hedonistic lifestyle, whatever will make them run in the opposite direction. Sometimes I make the observation that there are so many similarities between Nazi's and Christians and then start listing them.

My brother, who only recently found Jesus(complete turn around), has set out to save my soul. I simply tell him, "Your God cannot save nor condemn me. If you believe, worry about yourself because you'll be the one in hell." I've never understood the christian need to bear witness. Spirituality is a one on one thing. It's between you and your maker. It doesn't need verification through anyone elses eyes.

Well I look at it this way Jehovahs Witnesses try to convert Prodestent christians and they try to convert Mormons and Catholics....Everyone has to convert someone some how...
I have found that there are christian pagans andchristian Witchs and Christo wiccian andwhatevers who are cast out from the pagan and wiccian group as well as the Christian groups so what makes Pagans and Wiccans any better or more open the Christians?

My point is people are jerks no matter the religion or lack or religion we are ALL prejustice to some point...

Why blame a religion (or lack or religion) for bad behavor? I think when people grow up and realize that if some one else wants or needs to believe in a three eyed blue and green poka dot bakini wearing oreo cookie and it does not hurt that person or anyone else and they let them do it, people will grow up and tkae responciblity for what they say do think or belive we will all be better off!!!

I like to know what religion other people are because 1 I love other religions and learning about them and 2 I dont want to say something stupid!!! for example: give a Birthday present to a Jehovahs Witness because they do celaberate birthdays or have a dinner party with ham cream potatos and rolls and invite a Jewish Family over for dinner. or ask a christian to join a coven. While it is done with the best of intentions... Its a matter of respect and understanding!

anyways I will get off my soap box now!!

I definitely agree that it is good to know someone's religion so that you can respect their beliefs. However, if you do make those ham and cheese potatoes and the family turns out to be Jewish, they shouldn't be offended that you made them. No, they won't eat them, and you'll learn why, but I can't see being offended over that if you didn't know. If you made the potatoes to see what their reaction would be, well that's a horse of a different color!!

And, people of all religions can be jerks. But, in Paganism I think we do try to be more tolerant of a mix of religions. After all, Paganism is a hodge-podge of religious beliefs in and of itself. For those Pagan groups that kicked out the Pagan witches, shame on them.

actualy I ment the christian pagan and christian witches or whatever christians....

But I agree people should not get offened because you made the ham and sheese potatoes either...

my mom is a vegatarian... she has always been a vegetarian not because of beliefs or religion but she cant or wont eat meat. she was invited to a house for dinner and they had meat enchalatas and taco salad with hamburger meat in the salad. the friend was a friend of my dad and the wife wanted to make a great first impression on my mom so she went heavy on the meat!

my mom never said a word she just picked the meat out of the dish and ate around it....the friends wife noticed and thought she didnt like her cooking so she asked her husband to ask my dad to ask my mom why she didnt like her cooking.... well her husband asked my dad and my dad laught and said she loved the food exept for the meat because she dont eat meat. and my mom was red faced and embaressed because she had noticed she did not eat much and my Aunt was embaressed because she had put meat in everything!!!

well to make a long story short my dads friend and his wife latter became Aunt and Uncle to me and best friends...
My father went to school with them both and was best friends with my uncle and they were closer then brothers!!

Later after my father died and my Uncle 10 yrs later was sick and dieing and told me this story he admited that my dad had told him to tell his wife about my mom being a vegataryian but he didnt because he wanted to see how my mom and dad would react!!!

anyways the point is this sceen could have went REALLY BAD if my mom had gotten upset and offende because of the food and a beutyful 35 yr friendship would not have ever started!!!!

just something to think about!

I am one of those crazy eclectic pagans...

but I do have one thing, earlier in the thread someone said shamans and referenced Native Americans. Not all Native Americans are shamans. Shamans are like the preachers of the the Native American society. But not all tribes have a shaman. There are elders, and medicine wo/men, but not necessarily shamans.

And tho I love Jase's line of "all witches are pagans but not all pagans are witches", that doesn't fit here either. Not all shamans are Natives and not all Natives are shamans.

I identify myself first as a Witch, an Eclectic Solitary, ... with strong influences from the Green & Hedge Witch "traditions" and, thus, with a deep interest in shamanism. I do not refer to myself as Wiccan because that definition implies to me a religious practice and/or affiliation that is not part of my life. As it is said, many Wiccans are Witches, but not all Witches are Wiccan. I do understand referring to one's self as Wiccan even though one doesn't follow a strictly Wiccan practice since some of the definitions of wicca include "witch". And, after all, as noted in another post the religion of Wicca, itself, has a wide range of Traditions whose beliefs and practices sometimes conflict with each other.

To me, Pagan seems to be a sort of catch-all for most of the non-mainstream religion folks. By that definition then, I am Pagan. Identifying as a neo-pagan versus a traditional pagan seems to note that the neo-pagan accepts that traditional paganism cannnot be fully reconstructed, but I'm not really sure what else it represents to set itself apart. Pagansim is full of such a beautifully diverse and colorful peoples that I suppose trying to define them except in extremely broad terms would be futile <g>.

I think it depends on if its a Christian labeling someone a pagan, they use the word pretty liberally to cover anyone they feel is not on "their side".

I call myself a sun worshipping pagan just to annoy them.

Yes but you must admit that some religions are MORE likely to try and shove their ways down others throats then others. For example, I have NEVER had the Catholics come to my door trying to tempt me to come to their church. I have never had them accost me in public like so many others.

I agree that everyone suffers from prejudice but this need to catch and trap non believers is disgusting to me. I am going to turn the sprinklers on the next group that come to my house, which by the way is in a no soliciting neighborhood.

I love it!

LOL point taken!

Catholics may not proselytize in public, but they do have very set beliefs and there is no swaying them, ostracized members are not uncommon. Also, having grown up in an area where catholics are prevalent (NH aka near the border of Canada - with a large population of french canadian catholics) and being raised protestant (aka enemy religions and a major reason for the mass immigration by the irish in the 17/1800's besides the potato famine) I remember working at a flower shop where I was the only non catholic. People were allowed to punch out for mass at xmas, I was looked at funny when I said I wasn't giving up anything for lent because I wasn't catholic etc... Did I mention that it is still common for people to convert to catholicism in order to marry a catholic? It is like a little cult unto its own.

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no offense is meant towards any catholics that may read this post....this is my experience with the religion.
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On another note, we have no solicitation/proselyting signs on both our front door and mailbox. =]

I grew up near Worcestor Mass where everyone is Catholic and there are so many Catholic schools, you can't swing a cat without hitting one.

I have NO desire to sway anyone and I actually don't care how set in their beliefs people are. I have the novel belief that they are responsible for themselves and I hope they are happy but I don't have the presumption to think that my choices are going to work for anyone else.

I just want presumptious religions to leave me alone. I thought this country was based on freedom of religion...how is it that those among the population seem to have forgotten this and taken up routinely harassing people who don't believe as they do. Thats what the pilgrims came here to get away from.

I used to work in a dental office where everyone was Catholic. We even had many Nuns, Fathers and a Monsignor as patients. I made sure I spoke with the other assistant to find out the appropriate way to address these patients, while I don't celebrate their faith, I wanted to be respectful in how I treated these people. I found them fascinating and NOT ONE bit obtrusive with their belief system, in fact the Monsignor made jokes one might think were a little off color for someone of his station.

Unfortunately, their own "freedom of religion" is the exact defense they will take in regards to attacks that they are infringing on your freedom of religion.

And trust me, I have many fond memories of "Woosta", as well a friend going to Clark.

interesting.... a catholic decussion in the what does pagan mean thread...........

I think all religions have there problems and pitfails and I think people tend to only think it is Christians and all that falls under that "tree" the only ones with them. I have been reading site and a lot of them put down "Fluffy Bunnies" and any other tradition or non tradistion of pagan wicca or the combo....

so in the words of Jesus: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........

just a thought!

I have always loved how people of certain belief systems hijack a word to SAY it means something that it was NEVER intended to mean, to reflect their own belief system and condemn someone else.

For example, I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist, they claim that Catholics aren't Christians because they worship idols in the form of statues that they have. That was never part of the definition of Christian.

The same has happened with Pagan at the hands of Christian, they use it to mean someone is worshiping Satan when thats not true at all. Christians often take the stance that if your not "with" them worshiping the same way, your against them. I'm sure Christians aren't the only ones with that hang up though.

Which is hysterical since Satan is a Christian construct and therefore in context means that a Christian calling someone a pagan with that meaning thinks that that person is a type of Christian... if you follow my meaning.

I guess as the new editor to the Pagan site I should throw my answer into the mix. I am an eclectic Pagan, and no, Wicca and Paganism aren't the same thing. Like Jase said, Wiccans are Pagans but not all Pagans are Wiccan.

I belong to a local druid grove that is part of the larger organization, �r nDra�ocht F�in (or ADF for short). Roughly translated it means, our own druidry. However, I also have my own personal practice which draws upon reconstructionism, ceremonial magick, chaos magick, Wicca, and hedge witchcraft. So, as you can see I draw upon many sources for my practice.

I've been a Pagan close to 20 years and before I knew that is what I would be calling myself, I was already questioning the information being presented to me.

Wiccans are definitely welcome in this forum as well as those of other faiths. I'm glad to have the opportunity to meet so many people with differing views here even if it is in the virtual world.;)