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Well everytime you turn on the news, it's always about sex offendors, online predators, etc. They seem to come from all walks of life too. More women are committing this crime as well than what we knew in the past.
What do you think is the deep hidden mentality behind these actions & behaviors as to why they do it? And is it different for men compared to women? If so, what do you think the difference is?

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Hey forcegx7!

Welcome to the forum!

Wow, you just asked a million dollar question and you would deserve a trillion dollars,
if you could come up with a single defining answer for it.

Doctors, therapists, psychiatrist say, rape isn't about sex it's about power and control.

Then, they say the male sexual predator is sick in the mind so to speak, organically -- chemically.

Then, with the female sexual predator there seems to be such a double standard --
she's suffering from emotional issues.

And, you are absolutely correct Sexual Predators, rapists, etc. come from all walks of life.
They wear suits, ties, baggy jeans, baseball caps, dresses, evening gown and all kinds of attire.
They live condos, mansions, public housing & you name it.

And, most importantly they can be found anywhere and everywhere OUR Children are at.

Vicki L. Forte'
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Hey forcegx7!

I came back, becuz I never personally answered your question.
I gave you the answers from the good doctors and therapists.

I don't know what could possibly be going on in these individuals minds.

Is it SEX or is it a SICKNESS? I don't know?
But, how could they not know, that it is wrong and immoral to have sex with children?

I just heard about a case, where a daycare teacher repeatedly had sex with her 4 year old boy/child student in the bathroom.

She told authorities, that He had seduced her.

With what? His oreo cookies, crayons & coloring books.
Is she sick, crazy or over sexed? I don't know...

And, how could a man not know rape isn't what a woman wants?
Especially, when she's screaming yelling fighting pleading and begging.

Why would he go on? Is he sick, crazy or over sexed?
Or, is it simply the power?

Vicki L. Forte'
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DO we Really want to know what goes on in their minds?

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Quote:
DO we Really want to know what goes on in their minds?


Uhh yeah. It would help us figure out hopefully prevent it from happening.

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Hey free spirit,

I felt your meaning behing your words, I got it.
But, I feel the same as forcegx7 it's also good to know what the enemy camp is thinking.

Gotta protect our babies and kids.

Vicki L. Forte'
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Hi Vicki and our original poster,
As a victim of child sexual abuse I can ony give you my thoughts on what motivated my abusers. But I believe it would be different for each person.

Certainly the 'power' thing is uppermost, but in my case it was complicated by other issues as well.

There was a sort of 'sick ritual' involved, which also included the 'fascination' with bodily functions. The girl involved [I now realize she was only in her late teens] was possibly the man's victim as well, and when she was caring for me, I became the 'third person' - to be used as an 'audience' to their sick practices, and made to participate.

I definitely think it is some kind of mental illness. The use of a tiny child is a way of them being able to feel powerful and able to inflict pain on a helpless creature, much the same way as some people take out their anger on a dog or cat.

The man was later jailed for having abused over 100 children. I believe the girl who also abused me was one of the unfortunate 100, and he had a strangle hold on her, having distorted and fractured her mind with his actions. I have to admit that in some weird way I also 'enjoyed' the physical 'love' part of it - because I was deprived of physical affection by my mother. This poor girl provided it, but in a terribly distorted way.

I often wonder what became of her.

As for the man, I hope he is now burning in hell!


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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Hello Patience

I am so sorry to hear about your terrible experience.I can sense the hurt in your words and it must have been a terrible thing to go through...

Have you ever considered forgiving this man?

Not for his sake but for yours only because as long as he causes you to feel such hatred it is hurting your soul. You need to let it all go and release all the hurt so you can be trully free.

I think you could have a good point there concerning mental illness with perpetrators of abuse - sounds logical.

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I guess I have forgiven him for what he did to me, (forgiveness being a conscious thought and not an emotional 'feeling') but I cannot 'forgive' what he has done to others. Only they can do that. The man was a priest, and that makes it worse.

I am not bitter any more about what was done to me. It was more than 62 years ago. But when I think of the other 100 + lives he destroyed or crippled, I think he should go to the hell he believed in and preached about! ( I personally don't believe in such a place, but I do believe that people reap what they sow, and experience what they believe, so he is probably there by now!)


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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Patience, I'm sorry to here that you went through that. I think you are brave for being able to talk about it & move on with your life. In terms of Priests or Religious figures, I don't think they should get a free ticket to our trust just because of their status. They are people too & only few of them are spiritualy connected to their faith. Most of them i think just go through the motions. So them being abusers & it's impact really shouldn't be any different than a regular person off the street. The fact that we automatically assume that they are less likely to do such things because of their religious status is ignorance on our part in society. Especially Catholic priests who have to repress alot of thing because they are taught to be matyrs & earning a way into heaven is about sacrifice. I don't completely buy into that.
Another thing that i'd like to talk about is what Vicki Forte mentioned & that is, the double standard for the different sexes. I think not only we have to get to the bottom of psychological reasons as to what is going on in their minds, but the existing double standard needs to be discussed further & exposed for what it is.
The blond teacher in Florida got a slap in the hand because the so-called "victim" didn't want the stress of anymore media coverage. That's a cop-out. I believe that after several times of interviewing this kid, the legal team determined that there was no way this kid could convey that "I was a victim" message to the jury, because probably felt more like a champ or a hero than a victim. He lived every teenage boys fantasy & is probably being treated like a hero by his peers for it.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong, because to the other point just because women are the percieved as the more nurturing sex, doesn't mean they should be treated any different for this crime than men either.
Boys & guys just don't see it as a being victimized. And I'm also interested in opinions as to reasons why that is?

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Hello dear patience,

Welcome, to the forum and I am so very happy you joined us.

Thank you, for your powerful and honest words of enlightenment.
You are one brave soul and I respect you.

Once again, welcome to the forum I look forward to your viewpoints and opinions, as we try to solve the hidden mysteries inside the sexual predators and offenders mind.

Vicki L. Forte'
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Hey forcegx7,

You know what really blew me away with the blond hair, blue eyed, Florida teacher,
but in the words of her attorney,"She's too pretty to go to prison."

His mother played an integral part of such a reduced sentenced. Mom didn't want him to testify, but to simply move on with his life.

I wonder if she would have felt like this if that would have been her daughter with a male married teacher. The depths of their sexual relationship was quite intense.

And, since Mom felt like this, then the State should have stepped up to the plate in Mom's lack thereof.

I have 2 grown sons, I have never thought it would have been okay for Mrs. Robinson to take their virginity or to teach them the ropes. It would have NEVER been okay. I would have seen her in a Court Of Law.

Vicki L. Forte'
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'THUMBS UP' to everything you have all said. I think it is sexist to punish men and ignore what some very sick women do. ALL 'grownups' have responsibility to children and a duty of care.

Just think , if that teenager had spoken up, I would not have had my life 'screwed up', and the scores of others who followed would not have either. Mind you, back in the early 1940's such things were never discussed. In fact, I wonder if people even KNEW about them then! It was a different era, and in many ways a more closely knitted one in society. There was a war on, and that was uppermost in people's minds. From 1942 up until 1944 Australians, especially those in the northern states,lived in fear of invasion by the Japanese, and we came dangerously close to it, and most certainly would have been invaded had it not been for the huge amount of American troops based in Queensland at that time, plus naval bases and bombardment groups as well as fighter groups.. So, people had other things to worry about and they trusted those who were their neighbours.

Children were 'seen and not heard'in those days, and even if my female abuser had told someone that it was a 'priest' NO ONE would have believed her. If I'd told my mother[and I was threatened with having my pet dog killed if I did]I feel sure she would not have believed me because she trusted this person and had a very high regard for 'men of the cloth' - whatever their religion.

So that generation of abused kids was silenced. Only now, many of us are talking about it, in a different kind of atmosphere where abuse in all its forms are being openly revealed and addressed.

Authorities are attempting to counsel abusers, but we are continually finding that they return to their ways and continue to abuse children. We have had several cases of that nature recently in Brisbane. These offenders seem helpless to 'reform' and cannot control the urge to re-offend. It is an obssession,- a compulsion, and I don't know how we stop it! {they are now talking about 'tagging' them with a special bracelet]

It is often discovered that the offenders were themselves abused. I don't understand why they would want to inflict on another child the misery that was inflicted on them, but some do! Who knows why?

The only answer I have is in this example that was told to me by a very wise counsellor. It goes like this:

"There were twin boys who were dreadfully abused in their early childhood. One was in prison for the same crimes, and the other was a social worker.

"The prisoner was asked why he had committed such terrible crimes. His reply was that he had suffered greatly as a child and that it had warped his mind and his spirit and that all he wanted to do was to express his anger and hurt in this way.

"The social worker was also asked why he had chosen to work so trielessly with disturbed youth, and devote his life to helping those in trouble. This was his reply:

"Well, you see, I had a terrible childhood and suffered untold pain and abuse. It almost destroyed me. So, I decided that I would devote my life to helping others who are suffering so that they will not be destroyed by it, and will know that someone cares."

I think that says it all! The difference is in the way you look at it, and how you choose to live your life, - for yourself, or for others.

What do you reckon?


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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Hey patience,

Thanks for your input, Whoa the 40's, the days of children being seen and not heard I remember those days.

I was born in 1958, and in the african american community you did not speak, unless you were spoken too. And, you best not flinch an eye. The famous words, "Chil'en don't get in grown folks business."

No One Told Me, not to let or that it wasn't okay IF a grown person, a cousin, an uncle, or a neighbor like Mr. so and so, or a teacher or a Pastor touched me in a wrong place or wrong spot.

The end result? You're a wise woman you can it figure out.

Therefore, by the time my boys were 6 years I told them about the touching in the wrong spots.
IF, anyone touches and fondles you in the wrong spots Including MYSELF you must tell someone, because it's wrong.

Their question, even you Ma? Even me, because Ma would be sick if I did that.
I need help and you've got to tell someoneone, I won't be mad.

I explained the difference to my little men and so did their father.
**************************************************************************

WHAT DO I RECKON ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES YOU SPOKE ON?

It normally works like this.
Some peoples spirits are so badly broken they spend their lives destroying others.

Then, some people were so badly abused and tortured, they dedicate their lives trying to heal and make whole, to restore the injustices, that was done wrong to others.

Isn't it amazing what the beauty of some people's beast can to do them?

Vicki L. Forte'
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Patience you described it so well when you were telling the story about the twin boys... Its all about choices isint it.If someone has had a bad childhood they can let it consume then or they can turn it around into something positive.

I get sick and tired of hearing of court cases where the offender cries"oh but my childhood was bad" " I was abused" bla bla bla....

I do not believe a sex offender can be reformed - I believe they are sick in the mind and the kindest thing they could do for a start is to chemically castrate them.

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freespirit!

You got me in here screaming with laughter! <img src="/images/graemlins/rolling.gif" alt="" />
I agree, so you were abused as a child--blah...blah..blah!

For the life of me, I cannot UNDERSTAND or even begin to fathom how someone can abuse their child? Especially, if they had been abused by their parents, knowing how painful that was.

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Quote:

Some peoples spirits are so badly broken they spend their lives destroying others.

Then, some people were so badly abused and tortured, they dedicate their lives trying to heal and make whole, to restore the injustices, that was done wrong to others.

Isn't it amazing what the beauty of some people's beast can to do them?

Vicki L. Forte'
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What a sparkling insightful remark.....

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HI Vicki - I will also never understand how someone can abuse a child after themselves being a victim.It is no exuse and infact I think it makes them even more guilty.

alexandra yes I agree it was a very insightful remark indeed.It made me really sit up and think.

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Thank you Vicki and Freespirit.

What you have said, Vicki, is so true. I think the 50's were very like the 40's. It took a long time for society to accept that some adults do terrible things to little kids.

In Australia, we have had HUGE revelations of abuse in places of care, and in general. Victims of abuse are literally 'coming out of the woodwork' after scores of years of silence, and perpetrators are being identified, many of them in their 70's and 80's now, and STILL offending!

Children are being taught at home, and in schools, about the dangers. It used to be 'stranger danger' but now it is recognised that most abuse occurs in the home environment, and with people that the children know and trust.

You are so wise to have spoken so openly to your boys. That is responsible parenting. I do hope that others are doing this also, but I know of some people who are of the opinion that children shouldn't be given such disturbing information! They prefer to bury their heads in the sand, and I fear for their children.

I was attending a rally in our King George Square a few years ago which was called 'white balloon day'. Sexual abuse survivors [adults] were handing out information to passers by, and giving them a balloon which was a symbol of the purity and innocence of the child.

One woman came up and was very enthusiastic to make a donation and to participate UNTIL she found out it was not 'physical' abuse but SEXUAL abuse which we were talking about. I'll never understand why, but she gave back her balloon, took back her donation, and stomped off saying that she would not support 'those dirty minded little liars'.

I think every one of us had tears in our eyes.

Ignorance is NOT bliss!!!


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Something might have touched a raw nerve.....

The word 'denial' springs to mind.....

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OMG what a horrible woman and how odd!

You have to wonder though what was going on in her mind and what has happened in her life to provoke such a nasty and totally uncalled for reaction.

You are a really good example of how choices we make define the way we are no matter what has happened to us in our past.You were abused and indeed you could have turned into a bitter person full of hate and hating the whole world but no you have turned it into a positive and you are out there helping others and spreading awareness.good on you - you are doing a really good thing.

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Thank you, Freespirit! You are very kind.

I agree that something touched a raw nerve with this lady. The thought that immediately sprung to my mind was that perhaps someone had accused a member of her family of such an act, and she could not accept it.

When I was in group counselling some years ago for my own problems and 'legacies' of the abuse I had suffered, there was a young girl in her 20's [I'll never forget her because she wanted to die, she was so unhappy] - anyway, she told us that she had been 'thrown out of her home' by her mother, who refused to believe that her husband, the girl's natural father, had been abusing her from the age of three up until she was 12 yrs old. She didn't tell her mother until she was 19, and this resulted in her being 'disowned' and made to leave home. Her mother will have no more to do with her.

(Oh, I could tell you so many tragic stories!) But this was what crossed my mind when this woman reacted in the way that she did.

Just think of it from her point of view. If someone close to her had been accused of this, it would be the most terrible thing in the world for her to accept. The easiest way to cope, is to deny.

I guess none of us know how we would react until it actually happened to us.

The tears we shed that day were for her really. We KNEW we were innocent and had cried all the tears for ourselves long ago. But this lady must have been in great torment.

I tried to go after her, to talk, and perhaps give her the opportunity to 'unload' - but she took off like a rocket. I had to let her go.

That's life!


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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I just finished taking a course through our local police dept. and the sgt. made a good point about child abuse victims. He said it does not excuse their actions, however it can explain their low expectations in life. That only explains one of many contributing factors. Bottom line, he gave and I think most people agree is that nobody is responsible for another actions only their own.

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"I do not believe a sex offender can be reformed - I believe they are sick in the mind and the kindest thing they could do for a start is to chemically castrate them."

You know this comment leads to another debate. I have an issue with this. Not sticking up for abusers, but I don't necessarily buy into the mentality, Once you are a sex offender, you always are or once an alcoholic, you always are. This is the more commonly accepted in today's society. If this is true, why the hell do we even bother having rehabilitation programs!?
For example, if somone was an alcohol for several years, got help & stop drinking for several years & are convinced that they will never drink again, then I don't think it makes sense for him/her to still be thought of or referred to as an alcoholic.
Is this something pushed on society by the rehab centers, psychologists, & counselors of the world to keep them in business? I think it's quite possible.

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Hello Once you are an Alcoholic you are for life - it does not matter if you have not touched a drink in 20 years.

The most dangerous thing an Alcoholic can do is convince themselves they will never drink again as they must always be vigilant and realise that they are alcoholics.For an alcoholic it is always "one day at a time" for the rest of their lives...

I dont know if you have had much experience with alcoholics as I have.When I was doing my dip of community services I worked with the salvation army as a drug and alcohol councellor and attended many support programs as part of my studies.

I dont think this is pushed on society by the rehab centers and the counselors like you say "to keep them in buisness" as believe me they have so much buisness as there are not enough beds for victims of Alcohol abuse/drug abuse and it is only getting worse.

Once you are an Alcoholic you always will be but the diffrence is when you have not been drinking for years you are in remission but an alcoholic can never let their guard down.

I am sorry to disagree with you but once a sex offender has crossed that line and commited gross acts with children - NO they can never be refformed,There is no way you could ever 100 percent trust a person like that with a child as I believe they are indeed sick in the head like I said.They can try and reform themselves but tey will never be cured.

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That's ok, you can disagree with me all you want. You have that right. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What you believe is what most believe anyways. If you're right, why do we even bother having rehab centers & 12 step programs. We should just lock them all up & throw away the key

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I also want to mention another double standard. That is, Celebrities.

Do you know that there is a plethora of celebrities that dated or had sex with minors? Here's some examples:

Well first we can't forget about Michael Jackson & R.Kelly.
I'm sure R.Kelly's will get a slap on the wrist. MJ didn't even get that. Yeah we don't know if MJ is a pedophile but I think it's safe to say that he has all the background triats & characteristics of one.

Rob Lowe got busted for having sex & filming it with underage girls. He also rec'd a slap compare to what a regular person would get.

Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old 2nd cousin.
He got a little backlash, but not much. Why wasn't he arrested & tried?

I think Lisa Marie was underage when Elvis started his relationship with her. Why wasn't he arrested & tried?

Led Zeppelin was noted for having sex with groupies as young as 14. Why weren't they arrested & tried?

Rick James dated Linda Blair (the girl in the movie The Exorcist) before she turned 18. Why wasn't he arrested & tried?

Rock musicians Van Halen during their hey day with David Lee Roth, had sex with many underage girls. Their roadies & bodyguards could attest to this. Why weren't they arrested & tried?


Steven Tyler of Aerosmith dated a 14 year old for almost a year in the 70's. Tyler was in his mid to late 20's. He actually convinced her parents to appoint him as her legal gaurdian so she could go on tour with him. He impregnated her which resulted in an abortion. Why wasn't he arrested & tried?


Steven Seagal & Chuck Norris supposedly started a relationship with their nannies while they were married. The nannies I think were at the ages of 16 or 17. Why weren't they arrested & tried?

One of the actors who played one of Tim Allens sons on the TV sitcom Home Improvement ran off with a 32 year old woman when he was only 16. They eventually married. Why wasn't she arrested & tried?

The media portrays Polygamist marriages/unions as messed up even the ones that don't involve the abuse of childern.
At the same time, the media champions Hugh Hefner for having 3 much much younger live-in girlfriends. Guys like Donny Duestch blaintly does this on his show.

*** These are just some examples, I'm sure there's more!
These double standards & the fact they exist make it much harder to put a stop to these predators.

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You might want to check out

http://www.ageofconsent.com

It really helps explain where and when the law draws a line on sexual behavior. Many of the instances you just noted wouldn't have drawn legal attention because the young people involved could have actually consented, and thus no one could successfully prosecute for statutory rape.

In my experience doing sex ed, I've seen abuse come really from a space about power and control. People who feel hurt and who feel like they have no control often take it out abusively on others. That's why patterns repeat. And abused kids grow up to be abuser adults often because that's the only "method" or "example" they got growing up.

I think as a society we're doing ourselves a disservice when it comes to these abusers, in that we're not taking the actual steps that could help them and prevent future abusers. It takes attention, patience and education provided to young children and young adults to heal abusive patterns.

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These celebrities have had relationships with minors meaning they are not at the age of consent. They get away with it because they are celebrities. For example, if it were Jon Dough instead of Steven Tyler of Aerosmith having sex with a 14 year old girl while he was in his mid to late 20s, we would of locked him up for years. This isn't right. It shows that celebrities take advantage of their riches & fame to make impressionable advances to these minors. Hence, power & control.

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I think Lisa Marie was underage when Elvis started his relationship with her. Why wasn't he arrested & tried?


Lisa Marie is actually Elvis daughter I think you may have your facts wrong there...:) Yes Pricilla was 14 years old when Elvis met her but did you know they never had sex until they consumated their marriage when she was 21?



That's ok, you can disagree with me all you want. You have that right. What you believe is what most believe anyways. If you're right, why do we even bother having rehab centers & 12 step programs. We should just lock them all up & throw away the key


We have rehab centers so addicts can learn to manage their illness and live a normal life again.These centers aducate the patients and encourage them to look to their higher power for strength to manage their addiction.



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I meant to say Priscilla...sorry my bad. To assume that Elvis & Priscilla didn't have sex until that much later in there relationship would be ignorance.

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no idea....but i know of a 14 year old girl that is in and out of court here in town because her mothers boyfriend was found out to have molested her since she was 4 years old, he was cheating on her mom with countless women and her mom kicked him out but still had contact with him but once the girl found out he left she found the courage to tell her mother, who asked the guy who has blantantly denied it this girl had a 18 year old boyfriend and this guy would often get jealous when she was with him and would often ask her if she's thought about sex and would let her watch porn tapes, and began bribing her with things like new shoes, a cell phone, clothing, in exchange for her giving him oral sex and often would try to "fix" her underwear when she was wearing tight clothing..he told her mom that she was lieing on him because she didnt want to see her mother happy..they both took lie detector tests and he failed and she passed. later on he tried to bribe her boyfriend into covering up for him by saying that him and her were having sex from the start of them dating and that she told him that he was the only one and that she was a virgin when they met....they have been in and out of court because his lie detector test can not be used in the courthouse here and the girl was picked up by social services to live with her father, the girl sees her mother on weekends and has a younger sister who continues to live with her mother..she has been in and out of court with no justice served on this guy because they claim they do not have enough facts and this girls mother does not want her to testify against her boyfriend because she still loves him despite whats been done to her own daughter and the countless cheating with other women, her mother continues to see this guy occasionally for dinner dates and lets him spend the night occasionally to talk about things, as she puts it and her mother lives next door and she is hiding this relationship from her because she is afraid of her mothers bad opinion because she has told her she wants to shoot the guy on the spot, this guy has said on more than one occasion that if this girl testifies that he will kill her and this girl's mother has not sought any help from the police or gotten an restraining order to protect her own daughter, she acts as if she doesnt believe this little girl and has asked her specific things about his size down there and the girl gave her correct answers to everything, this guy has manipulated the woman into believing that he still loves her and even asked her to marry him and wants to take all of them on a vacation sometime and the mother emptied out his bank account and all his saving as retribution for his wrong doing upon her but not against her daughter yet, she claims she did not know the molestation was even going on they were together for nine years and it seems she has turned a eye away from things she should have seen, she is trying to get full custody of their younger daughter but continues to go back and forth about whether she really wants to do it or not this guy owns a business next door to a local school house and its been brought up that he may have molested another girl..his family says they fully support him because they never liked his girlfriend and believes he is a good person and feel molesting young girls is not in this character, he continually used his influence on this young girl by telling her he loved her and only wanted the best for her and even told her she should wait untill marriage before having sex but felt like she needed to know what she was gonna be getting into, and maipulated her into thinking that what he was doing was ok from an young age and that nothing was wrong with it, this guy was a manipulator from the very beginning and probaly sought after his girlfriend because she had a young child and was single and alone.

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No its not ignorance at all priscilla has said it herself on many occasions.

It is also stated several times in her book Elvis and me(it was a source of frustration for her) and it is also in the movie Elvis and me. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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The whole situation is so sad....This poor kid dosent even have the support of her own mother who in my opinion is not a mothers [email]ar@@hole![/email] She dosent deserve her children and they should be taken off her permenantley.

This girl is going to have major issues when she grows up and I believe her "mother" will get her karma as this girl will not want much to do with her.

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youre right this situation is sad...my roomate is friends with both of them, he is no longer in contact with them but this woman would call and just ask him did you speak to him today, and what did he say about me and would admit to still loving him, and the guy would also call my roomate asking the same questions and trying to keep tabs on this woman since she has another boyfriend "supposedly" but no where in either conversation does either mention this little girl or how she is or what is being done to help her, they only care about themselves, and i have talked to the girl not about this particular subject but she is very quiet and always has been and is keeping things pretty much inside her but she is very traumatized by the situation.... i hope this girl gets justice and soon

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I've been avoiding this thread like the plague; but it finally reeled me in. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I tried to figure out for years what was in my rapist's head. For a long time I excused him by blaming myself. Since mine was a date-rape scenario, it was pretty easy to do. I kept questioning "Did I fight hard enough?", "Did he hear me?", "Did he understand I wanted him to stop?" things like that.

The other thing that haunted me was that I didn't react the way I thought rape victims were "supposed" to react. All I had ever seen on TV were the victims who were terrified to be touched again, who couldn't stand to be around men. I lost my virginity to my rapist. I had been saving myself for marriage - so I figured this was the way I should act, too.

But I went in the opposite direction. I went wild. I figured I had saved myself all this time for nothing, so who cares? And I felt horribly guilty about that because that wasn't "normal". If I had really been raped, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with sex.

It wasn't until just a few years ago that I found out that the response is split just about down the middle between aversion/ addiction when rape occurs. And there were other painful and embarrassing problems that added to my guilt and confusion over the entire thing.

I actually contemplated trying to find him last year and asking him what his view of the entire incidence was. I wanted to be hypnotized so I could have more "authentic" memories of what happened (because so much was blank). And then one day I "cascaded" - my memories came crashing back and a lot made sense - painfully.

If anyone ever feels confused about their experience with rape and guilt or blame issues and can't talk about it on the open forums, please PM me, because I know how it feels. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


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thanks for sharing your story and your feelings alot of girls and women have a hard time telling their story because they still have those "guilt" feelings about the situation but it is good for them to know that is wasnt in any means their fault, and everyone reacts to a rape differently i think there is no supposed way to act we all have different coping mechanisms, ect and i'm sure others replay events in thier heads to see what went wrong or right or if they could have done something differently, but just know that you are a survivor of this and that you can be happy in your life and move from this though it may take some time, but i wish you luck with everything

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Dear Bella,
Whether you were abused as a child or as an adult, the fact remains, IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT!

NO means NO and some people just don't listen to that. Even if you were too scared to say "NO" it is STILL not your fault because no one has the right to take advantage of another person.

It is a common fact that many sexual abuse and rape victims respond differently to what has happened to them. Some become promiscuous, and some go right off sex altogether. We are all individuals and we are all different. The emotional and physical trauma can affect each person differently. We are the victims here, NOT those who took advantage of us. We are the ones who got hurt, and have had to carry our fears and guilt in the years that followed, while 'they' have walked free, and no doubt repeated their power seeking behaviour with other innocent victims.

We who have survived, dear Bella, are HEROES - because we have not lost our ability to trust and to go on loving.

Be proud of yourself, hold your head high, and KNOW that you were in NO WAY to blame.

Bless you!


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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I get very, very upset reading about any kind of abuse, but child abuse is the worst. I wish I could put them all in a mincer one by one, how can you take advantage of child?

But trust me when he dies and meets his maker, he will wish he was burning in hell because, beliver it or not, what awaits him is worse.

All the best, chin up... at all times.

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Hey Michelle!

Glad you stopped by and thanks for your post.

No means No.
It's as simple as that.

A woman nor a child, and this includes a man or a boy should never have to question whether they fought hard enough, because there should never have to be a FIGHT.

Because, No means No.

It saddens and sickens me, the way society and people always raise questions, about what the Victim/Survivor could have done.

What about the Rapist/Offender/Predator?

Vicki L. Forte'
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We do the best we can in that moment.
We shouldn't have to question ourselves.
And, we shouldn't beat ourselves up, that all I wanted to say.

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The mother and daughter are in denial and need therapy.

The pervert needs the electric chair.

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Absoluetly.

It is never the victims' fault.

If someone is sick in the head and perverted, how can it be the victims fault? The victim did not ask for this abuse.

There is nobody to blame except the freak who commits such an offence.

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I also wanted to point out the situation regarding Mary Kay Loutourno. Lifetime made a movie about her story & painted a picture that she was just a woman with emotional issues. Yet if this was a man, he would of been painted as a very evil person.
Mary Kay Loutourno was also interviewed by Larry King where he was asking her questions & holding her hand like she was some kind of victim. If it were a guy, Larry King & the callers would of had a completely different tone, I'm sure.

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I'm an avid watcher of Larry King, glad I missed that one though.

Let me ask you this and anyone else that cares to answer.
Are you familiar with the Menendez Brothers, Kyle and Erik?
They killed their parents in 1989, it was supposedly due to greed and money.

However, Kyle and Erik say it was due to child molestation over the years. I was just wondering if you believed their story or not.

I watched I believe Kyle and Tammy (wife) on Larry King.
I wonder if the murders would have transpired in this day and time would there have been a different outcome?

Because, they are locked up for life without the possibility of parole.

I was just curious, that's all.

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I agree that it should not be different for women than for men...but...

Some of these teenage boys are not so innocent these days (of course neither are some of these teenage girls for that matter). They are catching 13 and 14 yr old rapists and I know in our "innocent" little neck of the woods, there was a scandal about a party of 7th graders where a couple of kids were caught having oral sex. The parents were actually there at the house chaperoning - but the kids had snuck out back into the yard!!! It's like some of these kids don't care anymore.

I was watching some reality show on Bravo, based loosely on "Desperate Housewives" called "The Real Housewives of Orange County" (or something like that) - and one of the teenage guys was making the comment about how "you are the man if you can get together with a Mom". So some of these underage kids are actually trying to get together with older adults. It's not like they are being lured into it unknowingly.

I also know when I was in the hospital for depression I met a woman in there who was suicidally bi-polar. She was arrested the day she was released because she had been having an affair with a 15 yr old (she was my age - 35). But this woman was an extremely depressed individual with very low self esteem. Maybe when going through her manic phase she was quite different; but I would more see the teen being the dominant personality in the realtionship and her "clinging" to him than the other way around. At least from what I saw of her in the short time I knew her.

Now for the younger children and for incest- it's obvious, and for any kid that says it's against their will. But I'm just not so sure about some of these older teens anymore.

Of course, I'm sure if it ever happens to my children; I'm going to feel very differently, and am going to try to take someone's head off. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> How's that for being fair and even- minded, eh?


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Hey Michelle,

I watched a few episodes of Real Housewives of Orange County, it wasn't my cup of tea.

As far as Underage Kids actually trying to get with older adults, as you had stated, the key words "Underage Kids" and We are the Adults, therefore We should know better.

Even, if the Underage Kid, gets stark raving naked, then We as the Adult, should say "Get your clothes On I'll be back to talk to you." Then we should walk away.

Then, after we talk to them we should call their parents or legal guardian. We are the Adults, we shouldn't be baited or lured, unless of course we want to.

If you're a rapist at 13 or 14, I hate to think what you'll be at 20 and 30.

I can believe 7th graders were caught having oral sex behind their parents back, so their parents need to sit down with a needed communicated conversation, along with serious repercussions, restrictions etc.

Yet, their actions does not warrant, nor justify future harm that should be brought upon them by an adult rapist, sexual predator or offender.

These young teens were having sexual relations with their peers and I'm not saying what they did in the backyard was right.

There's no justification for an adult to be having sexual relations with children and underage teenagers.

The argument from our citizens, society, prosecutors, those who have been molested, raped, preyed upon and even those here who participate at this board....

Sexual Predators, Offenders, Rapists are constantly saying they have a mental illness, chemical imbalance, suffering from depression, emotional issues, childhood abuses & traumas ~~ therefore...

And, everyone wants to know when is it going to end?
Who is going to accept responsibility - the children?

At the end of the day, they are just children.

Have A Blessed Day. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolling.gif" alt="" />

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Good point Vicki.

You're right, the adult should be the one to step up and take control of the situation by putting a stop to it.

But I still stand by what I said on the teenage rapist issue. There are plenty of teen boys out there that can overpower an adult woman. Just because they are underage doesn't mean they should be able to get away with this crime, nor should the adult victim be blamed for not being able to stop it.


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Oh, by all means... a rapist is a rapist!
I can't argue that.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolling.gif" alt="" />

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Dear Michelle,

Just wanted to come back and say, that I'm glad you were able to come and join us.

Your contribution was very enlightening & you were a breath of fresh air.

I enjoy this type of dialogue and the position and stance in which you take.

Many people believe an older maturer woman, could actually ward off a young boy/teen from raping/assaulting her. Yet, it doesn't always work that way.

Kudos to you!

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Mary Kay Lortourno was on Larry King again last night. This time he went to her home in Seattle & interviewed both her & her husband Vili (the once 13 yr old boy she originally had sex with at that time). She is now 44 & he is 22. The tone of the interview was pleasant & it makes you wonder. If the roles were reversed even under the same exact situation & circumstances, the much older man would either of still be in jail or the Larry King interview would of had a much much less forgiven tone.
Vili stated that when he was younger he said that people wouldn't listen to him & only want to hear what they wanted to hear. No matter how much he told people that he wasn't or didn't feel like a victim, they didn't want to believe him.

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I'm sure the program will be repeated, so sad.
They have 2 children, correct?

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Yes 2 childern & they are very happy. It just goes to show you that one size doesn't fit all meaning that not every teenager (younger or older) isn't necessarily a victim & not every adult having a relationship with such persons is a predator...possibly?
If something like a older female teacher had sex with me when I was a teenager, I personally would know it to be unethical. I wouldn't of felt like a victim. Now restraining someone & forcing them to have sex against their consent or will is a whole different story regardless of age difference. That should never be tolerated!
The question is this: Do you think the majority of these younger persons only feel like victims mostly because of society's perception which is like I said before, one size fits all?
I think this is true for females. Society since the dawn of time has perceived females as being the weaker sex therefore "victim" is assumed before anything even really happens. I think women should be insulted by this. They don't challenge this, because they can use it to their advantage to make their life easier in some way or another. Excluding instances of forced rape that is of course violent, do you think most of these women would of actually felt their experiences as positive like males do? I tend to think the answer to that is, probably.
Mary Kay Lortourno gets much justification & reprieve & she may deserve it. If she were a guy with a much younger student a girl who completely 100% consents & loves the older male teacher, he would of still been put out to pasture. This double standard shouldn't exist...it's wrong, plain & simple.
I think alot of these sexual experiences & relationships become problems or at least over exaggeratted because society labels & perceives them to be much worst or sensational than they actually are or could be. When in actuality, each situation & circumstance can be different than the other & we should really take each individuals feelings into consideration more. Life & people aren't black nor white, but shades of gray.
That being said, I did have a few experiences when I was younger with an older female babysitter. That is, I was able to learn, experiment & explore about sex with her. Yes at the time she could of been arrested for it if her or my parents found out. Still, I didn't feel like a victim & I still don't today. She initiated it of course but I was also interested, willing, & able. Till this day it was a positive learning experience for me sexually. That's the last thing I want to be is some guy who doesn't know how to please a woman, or some guy who repressed sexually like most people seem to be. And I always have her to thank for that.
Also, later when I was 17, I dated a 32 yr old woman for almost a year. It was a great relationship I'll always remember & it was our choice. I simply didn't want to date another 17 year old girl or even girls under 25 & put up with all the mind game bull**** when I didn't have to. It's a waste of time & energy & I refused to put up with the immature BS that I noticed my friends were constantly dealing with. Some teenage girls may feel the same way about older guys vs guys around their age.
We all say that it's normal for kids to fumble & learn things at the same rate in the same age group. For some people maybe, but I disagree. Most of us think it's normal for a girl/guy to have her first time with a somebody else who doesn't know what their doing, doesn't last long, doesn't know how to be comfortable or make their partner comfortable, isn't well educated on how to be responsible about it & at the same time make it pleasurable & satisfying, & just plain worried about conquering their goals...not really thinking about the needs of their partner. Because my first time was with someone much older(me being 13-14 & my babysitter being around 19-20 at the time), I'm proud to say that my first time wasn't like any of that & I have a lot to show for it today. A good sex life is important to me. I have always had a great sex life & never had or heard any complaints, thanks to my much older babysitter from back in the day.

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Hey forcegx7,

Glad to hear the children are happy, because all children deserve to be happy.

Yet, Mark Kay still preyed upon their father when He was a young boy and this doesn't mitigate those facts.

As far as young children, teenagers and even adults being told they were Victims by Society, I can only speak on my past experiences as a Voice for Abused Children and an Advocate and Mental Health Peer Counselor.

I counseled Men and Women, who had suffered from past childhood abuses and traumas stemming from molestations rapes, etc.

It came from babysitters, fathers, mothers, uncles and so on. They didn't feel like victims because of what society had told them, but due from the vile feelings invaded on their bodies and personal space.

Of course, everyones situation is different.

Some of these individuals had grew up with physical violence in their home, therefore they did not understand this was not normal, until they reached the ages of 26 to 28 years old and that was thru therapy.

Some individuals will grow up believing having Sexual Relations with children is normal, because this is what was in their home and upbringing.

This doesn't make it normal, adults shouldn't have Sexual Relations with children.

I wasn't quite clear what you meant by Women being perceived as Victims, and Women could use this to our advantage?

Years ago, people were called Victims, people now prefer to be called Survivors.

Many, don't even like to be called this.
Why, they say this is just keeping your head above water.
They, say they are living now.

I'm definitely going to keep a watch out for the rerun of Mary Kay on the The Larry King Show.

And, by the way I must ask you not to use expletives or curse words on the board, I know we can all get passionate, but...

Vicki L. Forte'
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I believe it is the same for men and women that want a "relationship" with a teen. And I do think there is a slight difference in the mentality of the adults that are sexual predators on several younger children and those that engage in a relationship with an older teen. I'm not saying it is better, nor that it is any less of a problem - but just that there is a difference in the thinking.

The flatout predator/ pedophile that seeks to defile any child generally seeks out younger children (not always, but usually). Or smaller - those they feel they have power over and cannot fight back.

The ones that engage in relationships are similar - they also seek to be with someone with less power; but because they fear of someone being in control of them not because they are seeking the high of the power itself. A couple made up of a younger teen is usually going to find the adult in control of the relationship with the teen just happy to be there. The adult may not take advantage of the situation by being classically abusive, but nevertheless is in control - and feels safer that way. These adults are afraid to engage in an adult relationship for fear of losing that control.

I wonder what happens with Mary Kay and her husband when he turns 30 and really starts to show some strength? Because there is nothing like having children and being a father to make a man grow up!


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Very interesting post forcegx7 and very well written.You are right of course.

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Quote:
Very interesting post forcegx7 and very well written.You are right of course.


Thanks but I'm curious to know the reasons why you feel that I'm right? I'm just giving my perspective & opinions based on my experiences & observations. I do recognize that they are debatable.

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Of course they are debatable - as everything is in life... But i think you are right because i share the same perspective (just me <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )you expressed in your post on this issue.

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Whoa, Michelle you said a mouthful.

It will certainly be interesting when Mary Kay's young husband enters his 30's.

When he wakes up one morning and realizes how she robbed him.

She robbed him like a thief in the night and raped him of his childhood.

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Quote:
Of course they are debatable - as everything is in life... But i think you are right because i share the same perspective (just me <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )you expressed in your post on this issue.


Just checking because I have very strong opinions & sometimes I can come across like I think I'm right & everybody else is wrong. I just want to make sure that you all understand that that isn't the case.

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And, Wow to forcegx7 & freespirit....

"Or, am I just simply missing the mark?"

From my interpretation of what I've read you all believe, that it can be a positive impact from adults having sexual relations with children, IF it is not by force?

Because, it can enhance a better adult sexual life for them in the future?

Was I right, by what I thought you had stated forcegx7 and what you had co-signed freespirit?

Because, having sex with 13 and 14 year old children/teens is against law and it's not anything I plan to promote on the board.

So, was I on the mark or off the mark I need to know.

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Really the only reason he was "robbed of his childhood" is because they weren't smart enough to practice safe sex. Maybe her young husband doesn't consider raising childern at his age a problem. Most teens are considered to be incapable to be good parents at that age, but in reality when it happens most of them step up their game & do a good job.
Many teenagers are sexually active & many people (teenagers included) have different perceptions & expectations of what their childhood is supposed to be like. Example, my female babysitter had sex with me when I was 13-14 years old & her 19-20. I didn't see myself as a child, but as a young man that wanted to grow, learn things & mature & sex was just part of that. Looking back at that age, I still feel like that's what I was. Sex was part of that learning & that's where my babysitter came in. I have no regrets & she didn't rob me of anything. I would of eventually had sex sooner or later anyways.
Whatever happens or don't happens in life is what happens & usually happens for a reason. What happened in his life at an early age isn't what typically happens to young teenage boys so we automatically assume it wasn't normal & he was robbed of his childhood. Judging life on "what ifs" & "what could of been" is a waste of time & energy. If people stopped trapping themselves in this linear way of thinking, we all would be happier in general.
I'm sure he notices the things that he may have not been able to do in his life, but maybe according to him they aren't as important to him as they are to the next teenager. Maybe he doesn't care & has no regrets. To him, this is perfectly normal or it is what it is.-
But who knows, they may not last & eventually break-up like many people do for whatever reason. Just based on his culture alone, I'll be suprised if that happens. He's Samoan & the Somoan culture is strong rooted in their family.

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And, Wow to forcegx7 & freespirit....

"Or, am I just simply missing the mark?"

From my interpretation of what I've read you all believe, that it can be a positive impact from adults having sexual relations with children, IF it is not by force?

Because, it can enhance a better adult sexual life for them in the future?

Was I right, by what I thought you had stated forcegx7 and what you had co-signed freespirit?

Because, having sex with 13 and 14 year old children/teens is against law and it's not anything I plan to promote on the board.

So, was I on the mark or off the mark I need to know.

Vicki L. Forte'
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No absolutely not. I'm saying that for me, I felt my experience was positive. I'm mainly just pointing out the double-standards of it & that some people may not be as negatively affected as the next person. Most problems or occurrences in life become worse or more of a problem because society tends to sensationalize things so much, just like how you just sensationalized my post(s). <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Sex and anything to do with sex is sensationalized because most of us are founded on puritan values that are extremely repressive. I'm not saying we all need to take to the level of Albert Kinsey, but if we didn't have these repressive attitudes & double-standards I feel that their would be much less sex offenders in the world.

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No, I didn't sensationationalize anything I simply asked you a question, because "I" had a deep care and concern.

A deep care and concern, because this forum has a following of teenagers.
And, I have a responsibility to them and their parents.
That's why I wanted to clear the matter up.

I can't run a crime forum promoting sex with underage children it's against the law and we can't engage in that dialog.

This is the reason I came to you and freespirit, I didn't go behind your backs I came to you both.

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Well I don't want to get into a semantics debate with you. I do respect your concern & appreciate you asking first. I just want you to know & everybody else that my intentions are to just to try & dig as deep as possible into this issue that is so prominent in our society.

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I dont want to talk about this one....seems like it has hit a "nerve" so I am going to keep my opinions to myself if that is okay..

The only thing I will say about it is that everything is not black and white and each case is different.I know from personal experience as a teen with a partner that was 11 years my senior.What we were doing was against the law but we loved each other very much and did not feel like what we were doing was wrong.EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT!

Okay,I said I wasant going to talk about this so I will shut up now. <img src="/images/graemlins/beamedup.gif" alt="" />

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OK I've stayed out of this discussion long enough. It's time you all heard from someone whose life WAS COPLETELY TWISTED, STUNTED, CRIPPLED AND DESTROYED BY CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE.

If you ahve had positive effects from your abuse AND IT WAS ABUSE, then you are one in a thousand and are extremely fortunate.

HOWEVER, I would ask you some questions.

1)Are you a qualified therapist with years of experience in counselling sexual abuse survivors?

2) How many other survivors who were abused at your age have you personally known and discussed this with?

3) How old are you now?

I was abused most of my life, either sexually or physically and mentally, and it led me to study to become a counsellor so that I could help others who were victims of sexual abuse, at any age, and it included many teenagers.

If you are under the age of 55, then YOU ARE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET MY FRIEND!

It has been a proven fact that teenagers who 'thought' the abuse had not hurt them, discovered to their horror that OTHER psychological problems arose later in life, and often around the age of forty or fifty.

NO ONE completely escapes the harm which is done to the developing mind and sexuality.

SEXUAL USE AND ABUSE OF ANY CHILD IS WRONG. AND IT IS DAMAGING.

The physical body is not fully developed and not 'ready' for the sexual experience, and the mind is not mature enough to understand the impact of what is happening.

Any woman or man, or mature person is committing a crime against humanity by inviting, pressing, tempting or otherwise encouraging a child (and anyone under the age of 17 IS a CHILD!)to indulge in sex with them.

There are NO 'positive' effects. There is only the fact that a child was taken advantage of, there are no positive outcomes from that invasion of the child's body at a time in their lives when they were not mature enough to know what impacts lay hidden in the shadows of the mind.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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Patience, I agree with you 100% when it comes to childern, but with teenagers I still think it's very debatable. I commend you for all of your bravery in what you have determined to be a negative experience in your life. And I'm not disputing your personal experience as to whether or not it was negative or positive. You've determined that it wasn't good and therefore it wasn't. I'm also agreeing that you can probably speak for the majority as well that have been through similar experiences. What I'm saying is that I think there are exceptions & it sometimes can be unfair or even more damaging if we deal with each situation with a one size fits all approach.

You stated,
"If you have had positive effects from your abuse AND IT WAS ABUSE, then you are one in a thousand and are extremely fortunate."

If it was believed 100% to be positive when assessed & evaluated, than more than likely it wasn't abuse.

"If you are under the age of 55, then YOU ARE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET MY FRIEND!"

This may have been true for your case. Others have dealt with abuse & come to grips with it's effects sooner & others later than age 55. Most of us obtain more maturity & life experiences as each year passes. We know we're going to be more mature in 5 more years than the previous. But wait a minute, we'll be even more mature than that in another 5 years, so why don't we just hold off with sex until then? Sexual experiences tend to happen when we least expect it & we are never quite prepare for it when it does happen so why don't we just not have sex until we are 30 years old when all the stars & planets are aligned.

"The physical body is not fully developed and not 'ready' for the sexual experience, and the mind is not mature enough to understand the impact of what is happening"

As far as teenagers are concerned, this varies for many people as far as when somebody is mentally, emotionally, & physically ready for their first sexual experience.

"NO ONE completely escapes the harm which is done to the developing mind and sexuality."

It's not about escaping, it's about dealing with it to the best of your abilities & then moving forward with your life, which I understand can be harder for some than for others.

"Any woman or man, or mature person is committing a crime against humanity by inviting, pressing, tempting or otherwise encouraging a child (and anyone under the age of 17 IS a CHILD!)to indulge in sex with them."

Agreed! The law is the law but we have continuously let double standards when it comes to so called religious believes, females, & celebrities undermine the law by getting away with it countless amounts of times. Also, 17? I thought it was 18? Oh yeah each state is different. Why is each state different & what's up with that?

"There are NO 'positive' effects. There is only the fact that a child was taken advantage of, there are no positive outcomes from that invasion of the child's body at a time in their lives when they were not mature enough to know what impacts lay hidden in the shadows of the mind."

A child, yes. A teenager, I feel is still debatable.
If you are one who feels that sex should be more about procreation than pleasure, I could see why you would disagree with me. I feel that procreation & pleasure are as equally important aspect of sex.
Also, when it comes to a teenager, it may neither be positive or negative. Very few people really fully ready to have sex or no one really knows the breaking point as to when they are ready. If they do, I'm sure it's different for each individual person.

"Any woman or man, or mature person is committing a crime against humanity by inviting, pressing, tempting or otherwise encouraging a child (and anyone under the age of 17 IS a CHILD!)to indulge in sex with them."

What if you have a 15-16 year old girl who's not only extremely responsible for her age but also has done a lot of traveling, participated & excelled in many cultured programs such as sports, ballet, art, music, learned about different cultures. More than likely, this girl will not find the guys around her age appealing & the chances of finding a guy around her age who is as worldly & cultured as her are slim to none. She will lean more than likely toward being attractive & attracted to an older guy who she'll have more in common with who will more than like be older. Would if that guy happens to be in his mid to late 20's or even early 30's? Are we right to deny her of that relationship, if that's what she wants which would encourage her to either dumb herself down to date the guys around her age only to be treated like a piece of meat like most guys that age often do. You want to talk about girls being used & abused. No one does that more than the guys around their age. So if a girl is above & beyond that mentality, should we not let her experience a relationship with the older guy she probably has more in common with & would be treated with much more respect, or should we limit her to the teenage boys only who in all actuality are much more predatory & abusive in volume & frequency than any guy in any other age group?

Again, I'm all for getting rid off pedophiles & sex offenders that prey on childern. I also feel that if we didn't have these repressive attitudes & double-standards I feel that their would be much less sex offenders in the world.
Teenagers are a whole different issue as far as I'm concerned. The law needs to be more situational when it comes to teenagers. Just because you see a 16 year old dating a much older man or woman, doesn't necessarily mean that the younger person isn't mature enough to consent or is automatically a victim. And it also doesn't necessarily mean that the older person is automatically socially inept, a predator, pervert or control freak.
It depends on each individual person involved.

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Sorry my friend, but at 13, you WERE A CHILD and at 19-20k your abuser WAS AN ADULT!

She took advantage of you, whether you accept that or not.

Last edited by Vicki_Forte; 06/13/06 12:46 PM.

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My grandmother was 16 years old when she and my grandfather got toogether...My grandfather was 29 so there was a 13 year age difference.

They were married for 45 years and my grandmother has never been with another since.
He was the love of her life...

Was she abused? I dont think so....He has been gone for a while now and she still misses him dearley.

I met my first love when I was 15 (as a penpal) we got toogether when I was 16 (he was 27) We had 4 beautiful years toogether - it did not work out but I would not take it back for anything in the world.I deffinatley was not abused and dont appreciate being told it was abuse when it was not.

Some people mature alot earlier than others and no I wasant looking for a father figure (geez wouldnt do those things with my Dad <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

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Freespirit, you were not 13.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
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Quote:


Any woman or man, or mature person is committing a crime against humanity by inviting, pressing, tempting or otherwise encouraging a child (and anyone under the age of 17 IS a CHILD!)to indulge in sex with them.


I was 15 when we fell in love... and 17 when we moved in toogether.

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Quote:


Sorry my friend, but at 13, you WERE A CHILD and at 19-20k your abuser WAS AN ADULT!

She took advantage of you, whether you accept that or not.


Yep she took advantage of a situation & it was very unethical thing for her to do. It was wrong based on that. I wouldn't go as far to say it was abuse because I still was able to function mentally, physically & emotionally in my life since then. Just because she was older & I was a minor makes no difference to me. I still was able to continue to have a social life, hae relationships play sports, do good in school, eventually go to college, graduate, have work ethic, get a good job etc. All because I refused to let others convince me that I was victimized or abuse. It was sex & if it didn't happen with her, it would of happen soon after with someone else anyways. In my opinion better with her than with someone who was inexperienced & frigid.

Yeah, I remember back in the days of high school, there were a few girls dating older guys. They would pick them up after school in there cars & us teenage guys would get jealous because we really couldn't compete with that. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I made that point in 1 of my post about some teenage girls are matured above & beyond wanting to deal with the guys are their age. Most guys in their teens act more predatory & abusive than older guys, so I don't blame a girl for wanting to date an older guy sometimes. It still wouldn't hurt to question the intentions but never assuming that they are automatically predatory or perverse.

When I was that age, I didn't want to date the girls that age because they were so much about drama & playing games. I didn't want any part of that. So I landed up either staying single more often than others or dating older woman.

When I was 17 I date a 32 yr old woman & even thought that didn't last either, it still was a great experience that I won't forget.

Now I'm 32 & I typically date women that are around my age only because it's just what happens. I did date a 19 yr old when I was 30 for about 6 mths or so & she was pretty cool. She was very responsible & mature for her age.
I don't mind dating someone that young but at this point they have to be self-sufficient (not living with parents)
& either going to college or working or both. I wouldn't date a 16 yr old because more than likely she wouldn't be in that place in her life & therefore wouldn't be on equal playing field. Still just because I have my rules fdor that & wouldn't do it, doesn't mean that others in that situation are necessarily doing something wrong.

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Did everyone read the New Forum Rules, posted on 6-10-06?

Number 4, Although we do discuss Sex Crimes in the forum, refrain from discussing Your Personal Sexual Experiences etc. etc.

Too much information was given out called Your Personal Sexual Experiences and thereof....

The Topic Of This Thread "What's Really Going On In A Sex Offender's Mind?"

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I definitely don't feel that editing or censoring someone elses comments on a public forum like this is right, but that's just my opinion.
I do agree with sticking to the topic & I apologize if I may have gone of on a tangent at times.
I was willing to reveal some of my past personal experiences just to try and give a different perspective on this issue. The only way people can solve problems like this is if we dig as deep into all the sides of the issue & discuss it as openly & candidly as possible without imposing & projecting our own fantasies or prejudices.

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It's not fun when people put me in those positions and hopefully you have read the rules and understand them now?

Have A Great Day.

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Fair enough Vicki...I am sorry if I offended anyone by talking about my relationship with my ex boyfriend.I just had to express the fact that not everything is black and white and we were in love....He did not "abuse" me - that notion is bordering on hillarious. I will leave it here.

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Great.

Have a good day.

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Thanks Vicki I did have a great day...

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Wow! This conversation came to a screeching halt

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Yes it did indeed....I think we have all agreed to disagree on this one. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Quote:
Yes it did indeed....I think we have all agreed to disagree on this one. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Yeah well we gave them a different perspective coming from both a male & female.
That is, an adult (male or female) dating a teenager may not necessarily be a predator, socially inept, a pervert, or some type of control freak. He or she may actually have good & sincere intentions of loving that younger person for the right reasons.
And it also shows them that a younger person in their teens (male or female) who had sex with someone older doesn't automatically make them a victim or they may not necessarily feel like they were victimized.
And the problem is that the law gives no reprieve for these particular circumstance. It's a one size fits all law, which is wrong because they exist & happen more than people would like to believe.

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