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#228970 - 01/26/06 03:13 PM Country Music - How far is too far?
Kathy-Country Music Editor Offline
Shark

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 300
Loc: Rosharon, TX
Does Trace Adkins newest video go too far? Check out the article and then let us know what you think!
Country Music � How far is too far?
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Country Music Site | Country Music Forum

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#228971 - 01/27/06 08:02 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
merlefan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 5
This isn't about being taken so seriously it is about the futher destruction of country music. This song/video is just another in a long line of "Murder On Music Row" The video/song is a prime example of what is wrong with country music. It's a shame that Trace is wasting his talent on this kind of tripe. He is capable of better songs.


Edited by merlefan (01/27/06 08:12 AM)

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#228972 - 01/27/06 12:46 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
Kathy-Country Music Editor Offline
Shark

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 300
Loc: Rosharon, TX
But doesn't country music have to evolve to be able to stay fresh? Look at all the people that hated Elvis when he came out and see how music evolved from there. There are those artists that are going to be traditionalists and there are those that are going to trying new things, isn't that what keeps new fans coming back?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we keep country so traditional that we aren't going to be able to get the new fans in that are needed to make it viable. Shania, Garth and those that have had crossover hits have opened up a new fanbase for country and from what I have seen broadened the country music audience. It also seems to go in cycles, the traditionalists are on top then the artists that bring a new sound are on top.
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#228973 - 01/27/06 04:50 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
merlefan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 5
Quote:
But doesn't country music have to evolve to be able to stay fresh? Look at all the people that hated Elvis when he came out and see how music evolved from there. There are those artists that are going to be traditionalists and there are those that are going to trying new things, isn't that what keeps new fans coming back?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we keep country so traditional that we aren't going to be able to get the new fans in that are needed to make it viable. Shania, Garth and those that have had crossover hits have opened up a new fanbase for country and from what I have seen broadened the country music audience. It also seems to go in cycles, the traditionalists are on top then the artists that bring a new sound are on top.


There are plenty of artists that keep country fresh without ripping the roots out of the ground.

Yes songs like this bring in new fans but it drives more of the core fan base away.
Shaina and Garth may have brought fans to country music but the ones they brought didn't know what country music is to start with. Both are two the genre would have been better off without.
This songs and others like it aren't about the music it is about the sellout of county music. Not only that but this song degrades women.

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#228974 - 01/27/06 06:38 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
MeganBoardGames Offline
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Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 722
Loc: Breaux Bridge, LA
I think if you look at the entire history of country music, Adkins isn't really doing a whole lot that hasn't been done before him. Old-time Appalachian songs are full of murders, stories of evil women, etc. There's a very old Cajun song that, translated, means "If you've got the hips for it, cut your dress short so it looks like a parasol".

People were mad because the Carter family was led by women. People were mad when Bill Monroe started playing Bluegrass instead of the more traditional old-time styles they were used to. People got mad when Elvis shook his hips and sang African American-influenced songs. People got mad when Loretta Lynn sang about "The Pill". Music keeps changing, that's what keeps it fresh. There are still plenty of traditionalists out there to hear, if that's what you prefer, and that's fine! Frankly, I'm not an Adkins fan myself.

Country music has also ALWAYS been directly influenced by the African-American music of the times (something no one seems to realize). The banjo is an African instrument. Old-Time and Cajun music use the African backbeat rhythms (which is why they sound different than English country songs, even if the melody and the lyrics are exactly the same). Country music in the early '90s was influenced by black R&B balladeers like Toni Braxton and Boyz II Men. Country videos, like Honky Tonk Badonkadonk, are clearly and unabashedly influenced by Rap videos. Again, things are always changing, but always in the same way.

However, to get riled up about it is a waste of people's time, I think, and is actually MORE of a disrespect to tradition than simply allowing things to evolve as they will.

That's just my $.02
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#228975 - 01/27/06 08:25 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
Kathy-Country Music Editor Offline
Shark

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 300
Loc: Rosharon, TX
I love a good debate and ya'll have definately brought some good points to the table. I just happen to love the song, I love Trace's voice I just melt whenever I hear him. I like a good ballad, but the toe tappers are what I play when I'm driving or cleaning house.

Trace hasn't gone as far as Shania has, what I mean by that is to release 2 CD's..one acoustical and one more pop oriented, which I found a bit odd myself. But she has also been reported to have said that the songs she writes and records aren't songs about her, but songs that she thinks will sell to the crowd. Is that a bad thing? Isn't that what they are in the business to do?

I personally don't see how the song degrades women, it's set in a honkytonk where she is dancing. Guys look, girls look, it's human nature. Bands are there to get people on the dance floor, that was my take on the song anyway. No matter the debate, it keeps him in the forefront at the moment, which isn't a bad thing IMHO.
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Country Music Site | Country Music Forum

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#228976 - 01/28/06 09:00 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
merlefan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 5
Quote:
I think if you look at the entire history of country music, Adkins isn't really doing a whole lot that hasn't been done before him. Old-time Appalachian songs are full of murders, stories of evil women, etc. There's a very old Cajun song that, translated, means "If you've got the hips for it, cut your dress short so it looks like a parasol".

People were mad because the Carter family was led by women. People were mad when Bill Monroe started playing Bluegrass instead of the more traditional old-time styles they were used to. People got mad when Elvis shook his hips and sang African American-influenced songs. People got mad when Loretta Lynn sang about "The Pill". Music keeps changing, that's what keeps it fresh. There are still plenty of traditionalists out there to hear, if that's what you prefer, and that's fine! Frankly, I'm not an Adkins fan myself.

Country music has also ALWAYS been directly influenced by the African-American music of the times (something no one seems to realize). The banjo is an African instrument. Old-Time and Cajun music use the African backbeat rhythms (which is why they sound different than English country songs, even if the melody and the lyrics are exactly the same). Country music in the early '90s was influenced by black R&B balladeers like Toni Braxton and Boyz II Men. Country videos, like Honky Tonk Badonkadonk, are clearly and unabashedly influenced by Rap videos. Again, things are always changing, but always in the same way.

However, to get riled up about it is a waste of people's time, I think, and is actually MORE of a disrespect to tradition than simply allowing things to evolve as they will.

That's just my $.02


Rap and Country should never be mixed. Not sure what influenced country in the 90's Alan Jackson is the only one that stands out from that decade. So you think Trace isn't doing anything that has been done before. Do you really think Hank Sr, Lefty Frizzell, Ernest Tubb, Johnny Cash Merle Haggard etc would have ever recorded a song and relased a video like this? I care deeply about the tradtions of country and to sit back and not say anything is more disrespectful. I find it funny you mention Elvis in a thread about country music He wasn't a country singer or even close to one. The Carter Family had 2 female members. A.P. his wife Sara, and sister-inlaw Mother Maybelle Carter were the members. Pehaps your thinking of Mother Maybelle and the Carter Sisters.
Bill Monroe is one of the founding fathers of bluegrass music.


Edited by merlefan (01/28/06 01:51 PM)

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#228977 - 01/28/06 04:18 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
MeganBoardGames Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 722
Loc: Breaux Bridge, LA
Mother Maybelle led the Carter Family. A.P. was the businessman behind it, but without Maybelle's singing and revolutionary guitar stylings, there would be no Carter family.

I realize who Bill Monroe is, thanks. I also know that he was booed regularly for playing his "new style" (bluegrass), instead of the "old style" (old-time). I also know a great story about the first time Bill Monroe heard the band Newgrass Revival.... he hated them, and told them so in front of a crowd of about 10,000 people. They were too forward moving for his taste.

No, Hank, Lefty, Ernest, Johnny, Merle, George Jones, Bob Wills, Gene Autry, Jim Reeves, Roy Acuff, etc. would not have made a video like this. First of all, there were no music videos back then. Secondly, there was no tradition yet of parading half-clothed women around ANYWHERE for them to follow. They broke grounds in tradition in THEIR time, though, that's my point.

No one says you have to listen to it. I'm one of the hardest-core country fans I know, and yet I don't watch CMT or GAC (except the show "On the Edge of Country). There are tons of great bands and artists out there still playing the good ol' stuff. Dwight Yoakam, Marty Stuart and Emmylou Harris come to mind, if you want mainstream. If you want sidestream, try Jim Lauderdale, John Prine, Robert Earl Keen, Buddy Miller, The Wilders, The Red Stick Ramblers, BR5-49, Kelly Willis, The Gourds, Railroad Earth, The Everybodyfields, Old School Freight Train, Old Crow Medicine Show, The Legendary Shack Shakers, Camper van Beethoven, James McMurtry and the Heartless Bastards, Susan Cowsill, Mary Gauthier, The Bluerunners, Calexico, Caitlin Cary and Thad Cockrell, Guy Clark, Fred Eaglesmith, The Tarbox Ramblers, Joe Ely, The JiMiller Band, Dale Watson, Southern Culture on the Skids, Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks, John Hiatt, Jimmie Dale Gilmore.... the list goes on and on. It's out there. Lots of it. You just have to know where to look.

Also, I'll thank you not to try to insult my knowledge of country music history.... I'm married to one of the most prominent alt.country/bluegrass/Cajun fiddle players in the world, this sort of thing is our breakfast conversation.... you should hear what we get into at dinner. Not trying to start a flame war or be rude, I just thought you should know that you're dealing with someone who knows her stuff.
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#228978 - 01/28/06 05:07 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
merlefan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 5
You are right about Maybelle's Carter lick. A.P did write alot of the songs they sang. If it hadn't been for Ralph Peer I doubht they would have been discovered. Most of the hard core country fans I know don't watch cmt ,gac or listen to mainstream radio myself included. Most will stand up and say they don't like the kind of stuff Trace put out and where country is going. I do know where to look and listen to the real stuff. It isn't from Nashville. They have lost touch with the core fan base.

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#228979 - 01/28/06 05:13 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
MeganBoardGames Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 722
Loc: Breaux Bridge, LA
Right. I agree. The thing is, I don't care what Trace Adkins does because I haven't listened to a mainstream country station in years. An outraged friend showed me the video, and I couldn't understand why she was suddenly so mad about it.... it didn't appeal to me, but it didn't bother me. It's just another step in the direction that country's been heading for years. *shrug*. I just don't see the point in getting worked up about it. I'm a traditionalist, and I'm content enough to seek out what I want.... I don't need Nashville to tell me what I like. Seems like we're on the same page, after all!
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#228980 - 01/28/06 05:57 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
merlefan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 5
Quote:
Right. I agree. The thing is, I don't care what Trace Adkins does because I haven't listened to a mainstream country station in years. An outraged friend showed me the video, and I couldn't understand why she was suddenly so mad about it.... it didn't appeal to me, but it didn't bother me. It's just another step in the direction that country's been heading for years. *shrug*. I just don't see the point in getting worked up about it. I'm a traditionalist, and I'm content enough to seek out what I want.... I don't need Nashville to tell me what I like. Seems like we're on the same page, after all!



I guess we are on the same page too.

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#228981 - 01/30/06 07:52 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
Kathy-Country Music Editor Offline
Shark

Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 300
Loc: Rosharon, TX
Wow! I'm beginning to think one of you guys should be doing the country music site, except that I love what I listen to. I'm in Texas and am into both the mainstream and the Texas country music scenes. I grew up with country, fell away for a while and came back to it in the early 80's. I have my mainstream artists that I like and those that I really don't care for, but I have to give them all a chance when I listen to the music.

We listen to Hank, Willie, Waylon, Robert Earl Keen, Kevin Fowler (he performs down the road quite a bit), BR5-49 and assorted others that aren't quite as mainstream as some that we do like, such as Trace, Travis Tritt, Toby and Neal McCoy (tho I'm not quite sure where he fits in). I guess I'm not quite as picky, if I like the sound I listen, if I don't it falls by the wayside. I guess that's part of the reason I don't understand the problem with the traditional vs. new wave of artists. I will say there are a few of the new artists that I don't understand in country music, Cowboy Troy and Big & Rich come to mind there. I can't get over the rapping and calling it country.

I'm going to check out some of the artists you mention Megan I haven't heard of some of them and I'd like to see what I've been missing. Anyone else that has any recommendations, let me know and I'll check them out too.
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Country Music Site | Country Music Forum

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#228982 - 03/15/06 07:09 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
UnofficialTP Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 24
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Rap and Country should never be mixed. ... Do you really think Hank Sr, Lefty Frizzell, Ernest Tubb, Johnny Cash Merle Haggard etc would have ever recorded a song and relased a video like this? ...


Would just like to mention that Johnny Cash did remake a song bye Nine Inch Nails. Not a Rap/Country combo, but definately an Industrial/Country combo ... and a video.

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#228983 - 03/16/06 07:46 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
charchar Offline
Amoeba

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 50
Loc: Iowa USA
I have listened to country music all my 47 years, and the only song and video I feel that I have ever been offended by was the song by the Dixie Chicks about killing Earl..I WAS a victim of domestic abuse and their song sent entirely the wrong message to solving this horrific problem. I just think of Traces Adkins video as funny, because we all know that most men will never find them in a situation like that, as much as they would like too!!! Maybe women that don't like the video are a little bit jealous when their men gawk at the video..Lighten up, country music has always been about change, in words to thousands of songs, and is a combination of many different types of music..Just be thankful we live in a country where we can listen to any type of music we choose, and when and wherever we want. God Bless America.

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#228984 - 03/16/06 09:28 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
babyquacker Offline
Chipmunk

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 1726
Loc: Maryland
I agree with you, charchar! It's an amazing thing that we as Americans get to do: make choices! I enjoy all kinds of music, too and don't listen twice to stuff I don't really care for, although I'm exposed to it through my 20 year old son. I think the Dixie Chicks are probably the only group that I've heard much negative stuff about and I personally don't care for them.

Kathy, I enjoy your country music game! The research has been fun! For all our choices, for all our friends, for all our chances to share ideas and thoughts, I, too, am thankful that we live in this country! God Bless America. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Trish

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#228985 - 04/19/06 07:36 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
trishh Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 447
Loc: Niagara Falls, Canada
From another Trishh-
I was raised on square dancing music, Wabash Cannonball, Tammy Wynette et al. I started listening to country again about 2 years ago when on long driving trips for work. I find it engages me emotionally far more than what I might listen to on pop stations and it keeps me awake! I am going to say that given that traditional country upbringing one might expect me to cast my vote with old school country. I,however, love the fun contemporary artists like Cowboy Troy, Big and Rich and Gretchen Wilson are having with their hick-hop version of the old standard. They are having a blast. The end result is fresh and fun, and heck, it likely won't last, so relax alright already! LOL
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#228986 - 04/20/06 03:39 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
familychoice Offline
Gecko

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 622
When cowboys start cross-dressing and saying 'Hi sweetie pie'. That's too far.
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#228987 - 04/26/06 02:55 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
familychoice Offline
Gecko

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 622
Or when they wear pirate costumes. What's all that about?
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#228988 - 04/26/06 09:55 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
wonderwoman13 Offline
Shark

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 368
Loc: arlington, va
Funny...I just saw this topic and thought I would point you to Wynonna Judd and Cowboy Troy's answers on the Nashville Star site to a similar question...I don't have a good answer for the question. I like old-school and new age (I love Toby Keith and think he can sometimes be an example for both).

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#228989 - 05/04/06 10:01 AM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
trishh Offline
Gecko

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 447
Loc: Niagara Falls, Canada
I remember Minnie Pearl and her wierd character fun that we'd probably now say was as country as country could get. Everything we say is traditional was out there in its own way when it was first introduced, else it wouldn't have stood out and had staying power. What we each like is another matter...
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#228990 - 06/01/06 12:22 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far?
Jim Colyer Offline
Parakeet

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: Nashville, TN
Country music today is like the pop and rock of the 60s and 70s. Things are always evolving.
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#910070 - 05/06/16 04:16 PM Re: Country Music - How far is too far? [Re: Kathy-Country Music Editor]
Nancy Roussy Offline
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Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 14054
Loc: Grand-Métis, Quebec, Canada
If the people who get offended over things like that would put their energy on things that needs to be stopped then the world would be a much better place!

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